| Author | Message | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1566 Registered: 4-2002 |
Verell: I *think* mineral oil (as opposed to petroleum) is plastic safe. Not sure, but I've used some hobby shop brands of oil and grease for years that works well on plastic. In appearance, it looks/feels just like similar petroleum based automotive stuff. But I think it's mineral oil. I have an off brand of lithium grease somewhere on the shelf that listed a petroleum 'carrier'. I suppose this may be the exception. We always used to use 'Lubriplate' brand. But I've seen it harden and end up being a slippery white cake that tends to separate from the mechanical bits that it's supposed to be lubricating. Because of this drying and separating, I quit using lithium grease. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1947 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>By the way, be careful of those fumes--gradual brain damage over time--<< I think my mommy might have dropped me on my head when I was a baby...cause I must have had brain damage at a young age to have picked working on cars for a living..;-).. Now I think my problem is YGADD. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1277 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry I had the wrong manufacturer. www.super-lube.com But I could have sworn I have seen it with a Permatex label, maybe they sell it under contract, or the Ultra slick is very similar... | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 968 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hans, I know that a lot of greases are lithium soap based, with carriers that are not plastics safe. However,I've always understood (for 20+years) that the 'white' lithium grease was plastics safe. Did a quick web search & found a lot of other references about it being plastics safe. Typical sites: "White Lithium Grease Use to reduce friction in all metal-to-metal and metal-to-plastic applications. Use on hinges, locks, doorstop latches and striker ... www.qplchem.com/white_lithium.htm 3M� White Grease (Lithium Lube) 08875, ... ... 3M� White Grease is a heavy-bodied, lithium ... 16 oz Aerosol Base: Lithium Grease Color: Light ... hingesCables and linkagePlastic to plastic sliding partsMetal to ... products3.3m.com/.../gvel_8TZRSWTMD7gl/theme_us_homeleisure_3_0/ command_LongDescOutlinkHandler/output_html DoitBest.com: ... White Lithium Grease: 14 oz. Aerosol. Radiator Specialty No. L6-16 Heavy-duty lubricant reduces friction in all metal-to-metal and metal-to-plastic applications ... doitbest.com/shop/dept.asp?dept_id=2027 " Do you have reason to believe that some white lithium greases are not plastics safe? Dave I can't find anything about Permatex 'super lube' on their web site. Could you have meant "Permatex� Ultra Slick� Synthetic Multi-Purpose Lubricant with PTFE"? Know if it's similar to the teflon lube gel that radio shack sells? | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1272 Registered: 5-2001 |
I like Permatex brand "Super Lube" grease. It is a clear, Teflon based grease. Safe around plastics too. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1564 Registered: 4-2002 |
Verell: You need to read the label carefully. Lithium grease usually (always?) has a 'carrier'. In some brands, it's a petroleum base, or mineral oil. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 965 Registered: 5-2001 |
Unlike many petroleum based lubricants, White Lithium grease has the advantage of being friendly to plastics. Many others will result in the plastics becoming brittle in a year or so. Unless you know the grease you've got is plastics safe, stick with lithium grease. Don't spray it, disassemble the pulleys, clean the old grease remnants out, re-lube & reinstall them. There's no need to grease the cable itself. The pulley pivot shafts do need it of course. Also the drive housing must be disassembled `& the cossmoline around the worm gear removed & replaced with fresh grease. BE CAREFUL, there are some little sliders that ride the worm embedded in that grease. Almost threw mine out before I accidently spotted one. | ||
| C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 233 Registered: 3-2002 |
It is worth noting that the factory grease( on cable spool gear) turns to a hard "epoxy" over time--you need to open the gearbox--pick out the old epoxy-like stuff and replace with lithium or the like.--MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1558 Registered: 4-2002 |
WD-40 is known to gum up with time. As for lithium grease? I suspect this wouldn't be too bad, but I've seen it harden over time, and attract dirt, etc., which when combined with the grease can cause a sticky mess. I'm not sure what would be optimum. The PO of my car used some sort of wheel bearing-like grease that has held up well. It's stayed put, and is still slippery. | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 388 Registered: 9-2001 |
By the way--what do you guys think of spraying white lithium grease over all of the pulleys and cables? Would it be too heavy or should I just go the WD-40 route? | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 387 Registered: 9-2001 |
No problem, JRV--I'd be confused too if an engineer were asking the simple Q's I ask! This is my first Ferrari and, not being a mechanic, am trying hard to educate myself as best as possible so as to maintain this car as independently as possible. Without F Chat, I'm not sure what I'd do--I learn something here every day. Anyway--no offense taken, my friend. By the way, be careful of those fumes--gradual brain damage over time--trust me, I know! Hans--you're right on about the miracle fix. That happened with my car a few months ago--cleaned the connections and it was as good as new, until this week. Back to the drawiing board. Mike--thank you so much for the generous offer! I'd love to play around with that set-up, just to see how it works ( especially if the regreasing fails). My email address is: [email protected] | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1945 Registered: 11-2002 |
Doc, I confused you with someone else. Sorry, all these years of breathing exhaust fumes takes it's toll..;-(..and causes occasional brain fade. My Appologies. JRV | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1556 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mike: Measuring voltage with the load (motor) disconnected reveals NOTHING! If you have horribly corroded connections and bogus switches, you will still read full voltage in an open circuit. Ohm's law. The voltage drop in the bum parts of the circuit will be nil because your meter draws next to no current. This is precisely why the relay solution is suggested. If relays were in place, you would have seen much more than 8 volts with the motor connected. Your 8 volt reading implies ~4 volts of drop in the rest of the circuit - an indication of resistance, as this is a simple series circuit. The relay solution gets rid of this resistance. However...... I'm not a big fan of the relay solution, as I think a mechanical tune up and a cleaning of *all* connections and switches should be sufficient to deliver enough current to the motors. I've heard some claim miracles by taking apart the switches and giving them a good cleaning and a dab of Stabilant 22. | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 386 Registered: 9-2001 |
JRV--I'm a psychologist and I have conclusively found that trying to change my Ferrari via psychoanalysis doesn't work! I've tried every technique I know and she just won't answer me! I think I would like to clog my brain with an engineering degree--it might work better (LOL). | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 962 Registered: 5-2001 |
JRV, Check Doc's profile, no Eng. school there... Probablly explains it... But he might be able to figure out why you're so feisty(LOL)... Just a friendly chain-yank... | ||
| michaelthuber (Mikehuber)
Junior Member Username: Mikehuber Post Number: 95 Registered: 3-2003 |
I have a set of 8 brand new Bosch relays as spec'd by Mike Tarrant on the slow window fix thread. I think you can find the fix by clicking on the parts and services topic. I will send them to you for free. Just e-mail me with your address. I bought them in hopes my problem was the voltage drop due to resistence, but mine was entirely mechanical. I measured the voltage at the leads from the harness to the window motor with the motor leads detached and found plenty of voltage when the switch was either in the up or down position. If this is the case the relays won't help. Hard grease, bad cable alignment etc. were the culprits on my windows. I have attached pics of a relatively simple first step. Try this before you take out and disassemble the window motors. These pics are from a Mondial so your 308 may have a different design, but I think the concept should still hold. Loosen the bolts (at the bottom of the orange nut drivers in the pic.) Spray all of the pulleys with WD40, spray the inside of the window tracks with silicone lube, I used a CRS product that I bought at Home Depot, and run the window up and down a few times. This will cause the cable pulleys to self align to their position of least resistence. If you find that the tarck moves to a different position on the Up travel than the Down travel use the fastest Up travel position. Since there is no means of counteracting the window weight, like a spring setup, the window will always move slower on the up travel. Tighten the bolts and see if that helps the speed. This worked on my driver's side window, but on the passenger side I had to disassemble the gearbox of the motor, scrape out the hardened grease and replace with fresh grease. One key way to see if the motor gearbox is binding is to reattach the leads and check the voltage drop when the motor is moving the window. If the voltage drops to below around 7V on the up travel there is a problem within the motor. You could also check this by amperage draw.    | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1936 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>>Thanks once again, Verell. Another case of consulting the experts after the fact ! I'll learn one of these days--I hope!<< Must be all those engineering Diplomas clouding your thinking!!!!! What school was that handing out all that paper? ;-) | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 384 Registered: 9-2001 |
Do you know the colors of these wires? I just want to clean all of the contacts and apply Stabilant to them. This worked so well ( for a few months annway) with the contacts under the dash Thanks once again, Verell. Another case of consulting the experts after the fact ! I'll learn one of these days--I hope! Dave--sounds good. As long as evertjing is apart, I'll do some experimentation. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1247 Registered: 5-2001 |
BTW, my buddy (f-chat name navygakman) opened up his 79 308 window gear mechanism, and surprisingly the grease was soft and greenish looking, not the hard white stuff everyone talks about. We ran a quick 14 ga jumper wire from the battery to the motor and it ran very quick. He went ahead and cleaned and relubed the gear mechanism, and sprayed some lubricant on all the pulleys as well...but the trick is going to be to add relays and direct power off the battery. I'm convinced that is the solution. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1246 Registered: 5-2001 |
I used silicone spray with good results. If I did this every 5 or 6 months, my windows were "acceptably" quick... | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 959 Registered: 5-2001 |
The motor does not have to be unplugged, it can be unbolted from the window drive mechanism & left inside of the door. BTW, search the "Technical Q&A Archives" topic for archives. I posted an updated version of a very detailed window driver service procedure a while back. Lots of tips. BTW, I'm very uncomfortable with using anything petroleum based on the window guides. If there's any rubber in them it will make it gummy, or even break it down. Liquid Wrench is more of a solvent with some oil in it. Be very careful of it around plastics & rubbers, it'll eat some of them! I'd try a dry lubricant like silicone spray, or talcum powder. (Use real talcum, not baby powder. It's a high% corn starch. Talk about gumming things up!) | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 382 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well, after the temporary fix for my my slow window via cleaning the connectors under the dash, it suddenly became as slow as molasses again. This time , I've removed the door panel and plan on lubing the cables, pulleys, etc and cleaning the connectors leading to the motor itself. Since I can't see where the motor wires connect , my question is this: are they the hefty green wires connected to blue ones which are below the motor and behind the speaker? If not , what colors are they and where are they located. I'd prefer, at this point ,to not remove the motor if I can avoid it. Also, I sprayed some Liquid Wrench down into the window channels to see if a little lube would help. It seems to be worse since doing that. Was that a no-no? If so, should anything be sprayed into the channels at all--if so, what? I know that this has been discussed before, but I can't find anything via research here for some reason. |