| Author | Message | ||
| Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member Username: Kermit Post Number: 138 Registered: 8-2001 |
As to SI Valves, I have always had very good success with their valves, guides etc. On the 4V's they offer the BMW seal that works so well. I suppose any production facility can have a "bad day", or perhaps have a few slip thru.JMO. I use them exclusively in ported heads, dueto my success with them. Kermit | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 247 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ted, I too had 4 valves that my machinist had me send back to SI. The tolerances weren't acceptable to him. Don't know the exact problem, but I sent them back and they replaced them no problem. James, make sure you use a reputable machinist to do your valve work. | ||
| Alan Ing (Alan)
New member Username: Alan Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2002 |
Just if anyone is interested, Ferrea makes and sells valves for 2 valve 308s. Check out www.ferrea.com. I called them once and they seemed reasonable, but I decided to have Modena Engineering in Australia completely rebuild my cylinder heads with Stainless Valves, Titanium retainers and do a port job. | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 202 Registered: 5-2001 |
Back in the old days, we would pour clean solvent into the intake and exhaust ports and see if the solvent would seep through the valve. | ||
| Ted Gage (Tedmac)
New member Username: Tedmac Post Number: 26 Registered: 2-2003 |
SI valve warning... I just completed a valve job on my 308 using all new SI valves. I had a lot of trouble getting them to lap and seal. I finally put them on a v-block and found they had unacceptable runout using a dial indicator (from .0008 to 0028 inches). It requires about .0005 concentricity to lap properly. I took the valves to a local racing shop and they ground them true for a reasonable price of $20. I had a hard time imagining how SI managed to turn parts this far off. SI was notified. I do not know if the stock was purged and the problem corrected. I suggest making a vacuum tester. A properly lapped valve with new seal will hold 15" of vacuum for several minutes. I bought a hand vacuum pump at Harbor Freight for $35 and a set of port adapters from www.goodson.com (see #1630 -2, -3, and -4 at less than $15 each). A little work on a barb connection and you're there. Goodson also has seals that will work at an extremely reasonable price (#5911, .428 guide OD, .311 stem OD, Teflon, 32 seals for $26). These appear to be identicle to the original equipment.  | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 596 Registered: 11-2001 |
James, a full gasket set (with all the seals) for an engine rebuild is about $750 from GT Car Parts (ask for Bill). It includes all the possible seals and gaskets you can possibly install on an engine, tranny, and gear housing, including valve stem seals, and water pumps seals. If all you are doing is a valve job, you will not some of the parts but ... you really might as well replace them since it is so much easy to get to. Hoses, timing belts, lubrication and the likes can be gotten locally at Napa. They have it all for cheaper than shipping it over across the pond. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 983 Registered: 5-2001 |
James, I believe T.Rutlands can set you up w/a valve job gasket set. Most likely the other major suppliers can also. It's basicly the major service gasket set + the head gasket, exh manifold gasket, & o-rings for a couple of the studs. Hmm, are you going to pull the other head while you're at it? Then you'll want a full valve job gasket set. Might as well replace the engine, coolant & gas tank hoses while you've got the engine out & things accessable. | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 199 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks Jeff for the honesty. How about the other parts, such as timing belts, gasket sets, seals, etc. Is there such a thing as a gasket set for doing a valve job or does one have to purchase each piece individually. | ||
| Jeff Howe (Ferrari_uk)
Member Username: Ferrari_uk Post Number: 401 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hi James. Sorry to hear your bad news. Always an expensive job whatever the car. I've had a look at our prices and you would be better buying the valves etc from a domestic outlet :-( Never mind - can't be cheap on everything. Hope it turns out to be a simple job. JH | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 197 Registered: 5-2001 |
Paul, Even if I found something the dealer did or did not do, there is nothing I can do about it anyways because they will say its been over 3 years. All I can do is warn others about the shop. John, Thanks for the info on the valves. To answer your question, Whats a carpenter doing with 2 ferraris. Well, after the frustration of not being able to register my Euro here in California, which meant not being able to drive it, I had to find a replacement that was already registered in California. | ||
| Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
Junior Member Username: Peajay Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2002 |
James, obviously your first priority may not be why did it happen but what needs to be fixed. Since it seems likely that the belt jumped any evidence that you get that points to an incorrect service may be useful. You mentioned that the car had done a couple of thousand miles over three years. Two things came to mind: 1) Did they really change the front belt or leave the old one in place ?? because that front one needs a good bit more work to get to than the rear. 2) Did they fail to tighten the tensioning bolt or tighten it down in an untensioned position. I wish you the best of luck, I am just about to fire up my 328 after having changed the belts, I think most of us fear this happening. | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 245 Registered: 1-2002 |
BTW James, What's a Carpenter doing with 2 Ferraris? | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 244 Registered: 1-2002 |
http://www.sivalves.com/ocforeign_valvessp_fer.html | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 243 Registered: 1-2002 |
James, they DO have valves for Ferraris. I bought all new ones on my motor rebuild a few months. They also have guides to fit. I think the valves were around $22.00 apiece. And guides were $7.00/guide I think. James I don't think I would turn that motor over any more than necessary. You might just compound problems by doing so. You can remove the cams from that bank if you are trying to do a compression check as long as the valves are reseating themselves. You can pull off the head without pulling the motor, a little tricky but do-able. But if the head is frozen on the studs like mine was, you will definately have to pull the motor Now that I'm thinking, is yours a 308? | ||
| Tim Hogan (Tojo)
Junior Member Username: Tojo Post Number: 99 Registered: 4-2002 |
I got my valves through superformance in the UK. Apparntly they are made by Cosworth. I got filthy big intake valves that have been necked for better flow and a set of solid exhaust valves instead of the sodium filled ex valves. I don't know if the later models came with sodium valves or not , but if they do you should change them anyway, cause the last thing you want is for one of themto let go and really stuuf your engine | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 974 Registered: 5-2001 |
OOOUUUCCCHHH!!! That last post removes any doubt about needing a valve job... Good luck. BTW, if you need valves, there's a good chance you may need a guide or two. Also, stop cranking the motor over, if you get a valve bent sidewise it can ruin the seat or put a hole in a piston. | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2001 |
JohnR, Did you have to have the valves custom made since they dont list valves for a Ferrari. Also, what did the valves cost you. Since the pistons didnt look that bad, would it make since to try checking the belt and if it did slip, realign it and try taking a compression check again. Yeah, I know, wishful thinking  | ||
| Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
Member Username: Eurocardoc Post Number: 422 Registered: 11-2001 |
Honestly would expect more damage than just a few bent valves if the failure happened at highway speeds. The front bank belt can sometimes not tension correctly,I always recheck after running briefly. pull the motor,always quicker to do a job right,don't look for shortcuts. | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 195 Registered: 5-2001 |
Forgot to mention, I can see the cam moving so the belt is not broken. I am assuming the belt is loose and the cam jumped a few tooth, or is that a few teeth. When I crank the motor, it is making a lot of noise, probably the valves hitting the piston. | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 194 Registered: 5-2001 |
We actually took a compression check and the rear bank had 160psi and the front bank was 0. We then stuck one of those fiber optic scope down the spark plug holes and saw on one cylinder there were no marks on the piston, on another cylinder, there was one mark where the piston hit the valve and on the other two, there where two marks on the piston. The marks where at 5 and 7 O Clock position. I have not done anything else since the compression test. JRV, it was Lake Forrest in Illinois, cost me 4300 for the service and it took them a month. Mitchell, How have you been. I'll see you at Peets on Sunday. I dont believe I have your phone number. James | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 242 Registered: 1-2002 |
Got mine a few months ago. Good prices and service http://www.sivalves.com | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 971 Registered: 5-2001 |
James, What indicated the piston hit the valves? ie: -Belt broke? - Belt teeth are oiley/slippery? -Tensioner is loose letting belt slip teeth? Cam alignment mark on bank 1 is way off at TDC? (You can see the mark by looking down between the cam seal and the cam belt covers. The re's a flat space on the cam gear mounting flange, and a small metal arrowhead on the flat back of the cam cover. Accurate enough for this kind of a check but not for setting alignment.) | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 301 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'm with JRV. Those belts are tough. Before you take the car apart make sure the static timing is on. Then measure the compression. I have also seen people get confused on Ferraris and take the compression reading on the exhaust stroke. Remember TDC #1 or treat as two independant 4 cylinder motors and do the same TDC #1 piston. There is a #1 on the valve cover. Also you do not need to take the engine out but you do need to remove the shifter, remove deck lid, tilt engine back off mounts about 30 degrees. However, I think it is just as easy to pull the whole motor. Then if the head is stuck on there really well you can use leverage and tools to get it off. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1955 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>0 compression. Looks like the piston hit the valves and has bent them. Funny, the belts has less than 2,000 miles on them but they are 3 years old. (Belts replaced at a Ferrari Dealership)<< Strange...I just replaced a set of 17 yr old belts on a 328 with 27K miles put on by the factory and they were still working fine. What Dealer? | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 592 Registered: 11-2001 |
James Bummer. I know exactly how you feel. I can help. Some special tools are required. Removal of engine is required. You will need a garage (an empty one, yours is full of stuff). Some special tools are required which I have. Call me at home, and we'll talk about your car. In fact, meet me for coffee this weekend sunday 8AM at Peet's in San Carlos and we'll trade BS. ML | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6039 Registered: 8-2002 |
James, Get the parts from Jeff Howe at Ferrari of UK. I can post his e-mail address. Cheapest around. | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 193 Registered: 5-2001 |
When my 84 died on the freeway, I thought ignition or fuel problem. As it turns out the front bank has 0 compression. Looks like the piston hit the valves and has bent them. Funny, the belts has less than 2,000 miles on them but they are 3 years old. (Belts replaced at a Ferrari Dealership) Looking into the cylinders, it seems very little damage to the pistons. We are probably going to embark on a journey into the unknown,(doing a valve job on a ferrari). Question: 1. where is the best place to buy valves, and gasket set. 2.How hard will this be (experience in working on early american cars (hotrod days of the 80's) 3.What manuals will we need and any tricks of the trade we need to know. 4.Any specialty tools required? etc. |