| Author |
Message |
J R K (Kenyon)
Member
Username: Kenyon
Post Number: 544
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 6:15 am: | |
Taek,
I know on a lot of occasions low mileage can cause problems as well. Its best to get a car with average miles or even higher as long as the car has been serviced regular and looked after.
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Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 1783
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 4:34 am: | |
Thanks a lot guys. All the info is duly noted.
It certainly makes me feel more confident about mileage now when I shop for a car. It's going to make for some interesting 308 hunting. The cars are right on the verge of either really low miles (barely driven) and normal useage which would yield to an engine rebuild. Looks like either way, the engine might need sorting within a couple of years of use.
Cheers |
dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1394
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:37 am: | |
There is a local club member with a 328 with over 105k miles on it. He bought it with about 90k on it and I don't believe it has had anything but standard maintenance and an occaisional waterpump rebuild....I'll ask him and report back. |
J R K (Kenyon)
Member
Username: Kenyon
Post Number: 538
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 1:06 am: | |
I need to check my thread post. My spelling is getting worst. Sorry..... To much in a hurry... |
J R K (Kenyon)
Member
Username: Kenyon
Post Number: 537
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 1:04 am: | |
Taek,
They have followed th statndard servicing schedule that is in the owners manual. The have had the valve clearances adjusted and check when required as part of the normal servicing requirements. Also they have had the injectors removed and cleanedat approximate 120,000 miles. I did this on my maserati. The head gasket on my maserati started leaking at 123,000 miles on my maserati so I had the valves and seats polished and cleaned. Actually the 456Gt has just gone in for a new head gasket because its badly worn and there a small leak of water running down the side of the engine block. The car is not serviced any more at the main dealer, that was after it reached 100,000 miles, its goes to ferrari specialist now. The gasket has gone bad due the amount of miles and subjected to engine heat over a long period. The 456gt just covered another 1,000 miles in the last week. The 348 GTS has just come back from a trackday and its fine. |
gary green (Minuke)
Junior Member
Username: Minuke
Post Number: 81
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 11:27 pm: | |
I recently looked at a 308 that had 110K on the odometer. The car had a recent rebuild. He showed
me the receipt it was 18,000. I was considering buying the car, but decided not to ( It needed paint work, a new top, interior repair,etc etc) |
Darryl - TR&328 (Tr328)
New member
Username: Tr328
Post Number: 15
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 10:50 pm: | |
I put over 100,000 on my 1979 308Gts and was still running strong when I sold it. Just keep up the service and don't abuse the car. |
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 2142
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 9:32 pm: | |
333sp
Rebuild after 24 hours.
Cost 125k.
I'm sure if you baby it you can stretch it to 30 hours... |
arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member
Username: Art355
Post Number: 2172
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 9:26 pm: | |
Taek:
Rebuilds should last at least 100k. Top end is another story. 75 - 90 seems about average for the 308s, 328s that I've seen. They are easily to give a top end, but in order to do one of those right you need to replace the valves, retainers, springs, valve seats, valve guides. If you do a complete rebuilt, replacing the various parts with new, you'll get the same miles out of the heads. If you skimp, you'll get less, maybe a lot less. Valves, good ones from the Ferraris would be about 30 - 40 each, guides about 20 each, balance of the parts maybe another 30 per cylinder. The major cost is the labor, no real reason to skimp on the parts
Art |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 1750
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 2:04 pm: | |
So it's safe to say that differing use patterns won't affect the engine much?
J R K,
Your friend's cars...what kind of engine work has been done to them? Anything besides the routine major services? Maybe not a rebuild, but any other things?
Cheers |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 5663
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 9:40 am: | |
Taek, I think it's standard to just run your engine until the leak down and compression results are not acceptable to you or you're sick of adding oil. On one side many don't care about their engine not putting out 100% power and having to add a quart of oil every 250 miles. However, there's others that want everything operating perfect.
When my challenge car was racing it had two engines and they would rebuild it every couple races. This is a stock 355 engine too! |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 2037
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 9:25 am: | |
I'm with JRK on this. Ferrari engines (bottom ends) should last for a minimum of 150K miles with service and maybe far beyond that. The bottom ends are very strong and well engineered (not interested in arguing, yes there are exceptions to every rule, like abuse negating the best build standards).
The top ends don't seem to last beyond about 80K miles however. So I'd say 2-3 top end jobs to 1 complete overhaul has been the traditional norm.
Long periods of poorly tuned running and poor service regimens and/or overheating can negate the above standards of longevity.
Price ranges have such a variance because of degree of wear. There is know way of knowing how long a piece of string is, until it's actually measured.
A quick example: Valve Job on Heads - Estimate Cost = X = standard Vale Job...incluses all of X. The heads are pulled apart and all standard operations performed, when it comes time to complete 3 angle operation on Vales & Seats it's discovered sevaral seats when cut properly end up too deep (worn beyond acceptable limits), this now entails replacement of bad seats not originaly factored in, as it's not SOP to replace seats. Result , actual cost goes beyond original estimate. If the customer wants to know why, he simply needs to look at 'his' parts and can be shown why they are no longer within specs to be reuseable for a quality outcome. |
J R K (Kenyon)
Member
Username: Kenyon
Post Number: 529
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 6:16 am: | |
Two friends of mine have a 348 GTS and 456GT.
The 456GT has got 187,000 miles on it and has no engine rebuild as yet and the 348 GTS has 162,000 miles on it with no engine rebuild. They are serviced every 6,000 miles changing oil and filter on gearbox/diff and engine. They are used as everyday cars. No problem, Ferraris can do the mileage. I had a maserati with 155,000 miles on it with no engine rebuild.
The key is to keep the cars serviced regular and not to thrash them from cold.......
Italian engines are the BEST !!!!, except for electrics, boring stuff like that..... |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 1748
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 4:51 am: | |
By the way,
I am aware of the following thread:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/285950.html?1058951256
It's just that the questions there are a bit over my head. I'm more interested in the basics and then getting more granular.
Cheers |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 1747
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 4:50 am: | |
Before the regulars rip me a new a-hole, I did run a search on engine, rebuild, mileage with the AND feature and although I did get one or two relevant threads they were from two years ago.
Another thing to keep in mind...I'm not well versed in technicalspeak so bear with the stupid questions please.
What I gathered was that the engine rebuild in a 308 would be around 15-25k USD. Can anyone confirm this? Why is there such a big discrepancy in pricing? Isn't it a pretty standard thing?
When do these engines need to be rebuilt? The search yielded some other posts where someone was mentioning a Ferrari with over 100k miles before an engine rebuild. Others hinted at a rebuild at around 50k miles. Does it depend on the way the engine was used (extremes like racing applications aside). For example, let's say you find a 25+ year old car and it has 50k miles. That would put it at around 2k miles a year. If I start running the car and clocking 15k miles a year, would the engine freak out on me?
Next question, or set of questions...What exactly is an engine rebuild. Top, bottom, both, etc. When are each needed and what goes on? How long would the car be out of commission?
Lastly, a revisiting of the initial questions. How much should a rebuild cost on a 308?
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Cheers |