| Author | Message | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Craig, I think you made a wise decision regarding the "Salvage Titles." With a salvage title plus damage the GTB is also not a good buy. | ||
| Craig Hess (Crag)
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The car is in Petersburg, VA at a place called Kim Motors. They also have a 79 308GTB that had an engine fire for $18,000 (also with a salvage title, no visible external damage, cosmetically it looks OK from the photos they sent me, I was told it runs?). I don't have the phone number with me at the moment, but they are both listed in Hemmings (accessable at www.hemmings.com). I've decided to look elsewhere because I don't want to get involved with cars with "Salvage Titles". | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
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Where is this car located? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
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The only thing your a head of with a ferrari is the traffic. If you think you can purchase a damaged one and fix it and be ahead of buying a good one outright - forget it. Just ask the guys on this site that do all the work themselves. also the junk/salvage title always stay with the car - a detriment to resale. Just remember with these damaged cars - if they were an easy fix and one could make money doing it - the insurance company and or the dealer would do it? Remember there are no fribees!!! - good luck | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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If you are going to have someone else do the work on that car, you probably won't be able to come out ahead unless it was incredibly cheap. Look at this car which will probably sell for less than $35K: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=596383645 And these "sold" cars: $33,600 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=595639126 $36,900 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=595877079 Just keep looking and you will find the right one... Good Luck! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Craig, At $35,000 I would still question if this car could be brought back in shape again. Remember if you ever sell it you will have this salvage purchase still involved in its history. What are your chances? I would say slim and none. If you want a Ferrari don't start with a disaster start with a good 308 or whatever your choosing but not a salvage piece. These guys on this site have a pretty good sense about these things. Also if the car has set for five years don't you think someone who wanted to turn a dollar would have bought it? Think about it. There are a lot of questions to be answered here. BRGDS MAGOO | ||
| Craig Hess (Crag)
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I'd like to thank everyone for their inputs. I am not a body shop expert, and your comments have me concerned enough that I don't think I'll chase this one any further. I believe I could get this car for $20K (maybe less?), but I'd only want to put $15K max into it. I am really looking for a nice 308GTSQV for around $30K with < 40k miles, all the service up to date, new belts and ideally with a new clutch. That would give me $5K for the unexpected. I thought if I could make the 328 right for $35K total, I'd have a newer car that generally commands over $40k, and be ahead of the game. I've got a few leads on 308's that I can follow up on. I'm not in a big rush. I live in Virginia and we do get ice and snow in the winter, so anything I buy won't get out much (if at all) until the spring. If you know of any NICE cars that would meet my specs and budget, please let me know. Thanks again for all your feedback. I know where to go in the future when I have more questions. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Craig, Christian has a good point. If we knew what the price was we could better advise you. It should be drasticly low with all of the unknowns. | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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l would only rec. to buy it if you are a body shop expert and know what you are doing. A Ferrari is not a Honda Civic, lots of special parts (availability?), aluminum instead of steel, no experts to consult if problems pop up etc. Save yourself a lot of money and sleep. What is the price anyway? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Craig, another after thought is that on my U.S. GTS the serial number is stamped on the RT. rear panel in the engine compartment next to the oil data plate and close to the charcoal cannister. It is under the black paint and is somewhat hard to read. Yours may or may not be the same. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Craig, Looking at your photos a couple of things stand out. The L/R 1/4 panel will not be able to be pulled it will have to be cut out possibly all the way up into the sail panel. The way the 1/4 was buckled there most likely has to be frame damage in that area. The rear panel where the license plate is looks distorted so that will have to be cut out and replaced. The R/F damage under the grille doesn't look bad but the greatest danger there is the misalignment of the lower control arm where it meets the frame. Obviously our comments are from a photo but if it looks that bad there take some advice and have it professionally checked. One thing you should definetly do is have a tram guage put on the frame and checked for true alignment. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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There would be alot of damage under that sheet-metal. US cars not only have the bumper shocks to absorb impact, but have reinforced frames were these shocks attach to. I doubt the Euro frames have as much reinforcement in these areas and would be severely wrinkled and difficult to straighten. This car that has sat for five years will have a tired and leaky engine. I have finished a rebuild of mine and there is another Ferrarichatter who is rebuilding his 328 motor (extensive). Be prepared for big work ahead. My opinion with this car: leave it and buy a good 308. You'll spend way less and get the same thrills for it. This 328 is as good as a parts-only car. This wouldn't even make a good track car (who-knows-what-frame-damage would wreak havoc with high-speed handling). | ||
| Craig Hess (Crag)
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The extent of the damage could certainly be more then I can observe, and I will have an inspection done as soon as I get more info on who owned this car and the service history. My untrained eye tells me that the damage is not that bad and if the body panels are available the car can be restored to its original beauty. (Hopefully)Here are some pictures of the damage. If I'm successful in posting the photos, can anyone identify any potential damage that I should look for (beyond the bodywork) that might complicate the restoration?    | ||
| Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
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•••• Merrit�s first name is Richard. Nick with a "D." | ||
| Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
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Craig, Do you know the extent of the damage? Don�t underestimate the cost of a proper repair. I personally would stay away from a car that�s been hit. I also have an 86 328; there are a few listed in this month�s Ferrari Market Newsletter, and also in the FCA�s October newsletter. You should check them out. Regarding a Euro spec car, I would give •••• Merritt (DOT: 202-366-5300) a call. He can tell you if the car is U.S. legal. He�ll need the last five digits of the VIN number. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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According to what I read (and I'm going from memory..) The Euro version has 270HP, higher compression ratio, different gears, different exhaust, fog lights, parking lights, side marker lights that flash with the turn signals on the front fenders(in front of the door), misc other small items related to the above. If you know the car was from Ohio and PA, you may want to check with some of the dealers and well known repair places in those areas to see what they know about the car. If the car has a junk title, it must have been heavily damaged-- more than what you know about. A pre-purchase inspection should cost between $300 and $600. It will be the best money you ever spent! | ||
| Craig Hess (Crag)
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Craig, I'm in Virginia, and there are no emission inspection requirements, so that sounds positive. Regarding the car's history, it was in an accident in 1996 in Ohio, but I haven't been able to get any details. The next history file is when a Junk Title was issued in Pennsylvania in June of this year. The guy that bought it at auction believes the damage on the car is recent, so I need to know what other damage the car has sustained. I'm hoping that between the Ohio DMV and the Pennsylvania DMV I will be able to locate the last owner and quiz him on service history and the details about how the car was damaged. I won't spend any money on an inspection until I know more about the title and service history. Visually it has front end damage under the bumper(grill and supporting body panel are gone). An evaporator(or cooler?) that mounts in front of the front passenger side tire is damaged and the supporting sheetmetal has been moved around. Everything above the bumper is fine. The rear corner on the driver's side has been pushed in. The damage does not appear to have involved the suspension, or engine compartment. Deck lid over the engine is damaged along with the quarter panel and the tail lights. I've got a lot of homework to do before I make a decision on this project. Since you own a European 328 GTS, do you have any information on what was different besides emission control? regards, the other Craig | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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Hi Craig.. I have an 86 Euro 328GTS also. I live in Florida so no inspections, emission or otherwise. If you are near/in a major metro area or someplace that inspects, you may have trouble registering it if it wasn't converted -- cats & other emission equipment. My car doesn't appear in Carfax because they don't always account for Euro cars. In any case, their info isn't always complete or accurate but gives you clues to where you should go. If the car was imported properly, you should be able to view the s/n on the top of the steering wheel hub, on the drivers door jamb, stamped on the frame tube near the air cleaner and on a Ferrari plate near the air cleaner. You should have this car checked thoroughly after you trace some history on the car. I believe I saw a 328 on E-Bay about six months ago from California that was wrecked and a guy had it in his back yard for 5+ years and never fixed it. Could this be the one? | ||
| Craig Hess (Crag)
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Christian, thanks for the website. It cleared up a few of my questions. The car's VIN# identifies it as a 328GTS manufactured for delivery in Europe. I suppose it may never have been registered in the US, but it was involved in an accident in 1996, so it has been in the US for at least 5 years. I'm going to see if I can get a copy of the police report for the accident. That might tell me where the car was registration and owner, as well as whether the 1996 accident resulted in the damage on the car that I've observed. If this car has been sitting for 5 years that could present some engine seal problems and other things I'm sure I haven't thought of. A new question that now needs to be answered is "What kind of problems would be encountered trying to title a European specification car"? | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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Craig: The four 0 show that this is a European car. They don't have the VIN numbers in the door jam but their should be another one on a frame tube engraved in the engine compartement somewhere. If you go to http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/vin.html for more deatailed info about the VIN number. Christian | ||
| Craig Hess (Crag)
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I am considering buying a 1986 328GTS with some body damage that was purchased from an insurance auction. However, when I ran the VIN# on Carfax, it only found an accident in 1996 and the "Junk Title" from 2001 (no original Title was found). Additionally I asked my insurance company to run the number and they also came back with some problems. I have a few questions that I hope someone can help me with: 1. Where is the VIN# located on the 328, other than on the dash? (The problematic number was read from a plaque on the dash) 2. Does anyone know the format of the VIN# for a 328? This car's VIN# is as follows: ZFFWA20B0000xxxxx (where the x's are numbers). My insurance company said that for a GTS the 4th digit should be an M (not a W)and their computer rejected the VIN# indicating that the 10th digit (0) was incorrect. Could this be a European spec car, or one that was custom ordered, or ----????? Can anyone help me to unravel this? |