| Author |
Message |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 11:55 am: | |
Paul, the fact that the horsepower increased as the oil got hotter would worry me. Does that mean the Redline oil is getting thinner as the temp. increased ? While fine for a race engine not meant to last thousands of miles, not necessarily for a street car which will hopefully last much longer. Remember, 5w30 is suppose to be like 5 weight(thin) when cold and like 30 weight(thicker) when hot. It sounds like the Redline is not adjusting from 5 to 30 which could be dangerous for an engine. |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 7:43 pm: | |
Paul, You know that they all have their test results to sell their product. Theirs is the best, If you don't believe them just ask them. Mobil one is a tried and tested oil which has given a number of guys on this F.C. line great service and they are very pleased. I am sure choosing either one of these oils is like comparing apples to apples. Anything else is like picking flyshit out of pepper. BRGDS., MAGOO |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 4:22 pm: | |
I believe if Mobil 1 oil is good enough for the Space Shuttle then it should work for me. I have used it for years and have no complaints other than cost. You can't get it at K-Mart for 60 cents unless it's under the Blue Light. Red line is probably good but not available at K-Mart. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 11:32 am: | |
Ok thats a lie. But I do use it in my sauce pan and it works great in that. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 11:29 am: | |
The last time I changed the oil in my car I put extra virgin olive oil in my car and it has been running great!! |
Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 9:59 am: | |
I am actualy usuing the AGIP Synthetic and very happy with it. |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 7:33 am: | |
Glad the two of you took the time to go and look at the test and it's results.
I understand K-mart is having a sale on oil: 60 cents a quart when you buy a case better hurry over since oil is oil???? |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 10:02 pm: | |
Exactly Herb. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 8:46 pm: | |
I wonder what the results would be if Mobil did the same tests. |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2001 - 8:35 pm: | |
REDLINE vs. Mobil 1
The testing shown below was conducted by Steven Merenkov on his 1998 Chevrolet Corvette. For more information on his testing please visit his web site at: http://www.c5-corvette.com/redline.htm
After 14 Hours on the Dyno with 29 runs to 140mph, 5 Oil Filters, and 4 cases of oil. Red Line WINS!
To completely prove that Red Line was the superior product we totally switched the oil back to Stock and then re-ran all the tests. Then to see what we could really do we tried the Red Line Shockproof light weight and got another 2 Horse Power. We also saw a significant reduction in rear end temperatures using the Red Line ShockProof rear end oil. One interesting side note is, as we increased the Engine Oil temperature the Horse Power started to drop with Mobil 1. With Red Line 5W30 the Horse Power INCREASED as it got hotter. During the testing we saw as much as a 7 Horse Power difference in Drive Line loss. So, If you want better protection, More Horse Power, and less wear switch to Red Line. Summary of Final Test Result
FLUIDS Max. Horse Power Max. Torque Increased HP
ALL stock fluids (Mobil 1 5W30, Dexron IIE(III), and 80W90 GL-5) 317.4 328.1 Baseline
Red Line Oil, (Red Line 5W30, Red Line D4 ATF, Red Line 75W90 Gear oil) 320.1 327.7 2.7 HP
Red Line Oil, (Red Line 5W30, Red Line D4 ATF, Red Line Shockproof LW) 321.9 330.9 4.5 HP |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 10:35 pm: | |
Nick, Thanks for responding to my request for an answer to the synthetic debate. I knew the one person who could clear it up would be you. We always welcome your professional opinion, so when you find time in your busy schedule we would appreciate any pro-info you have to help us out regarding various subjects and problems we might have. Thanks again, MAGOO |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 11:08 am: | |
Nick's answer reminds me of the scene from that movie Crocodile Dundee. The one when the guys came up to rob the couple with a knife and the girl says "they have a knife" and Dundee replies, "that's not a knife, that's a knife" and proceeds to pull out the largest blade in the east. Nick's answer puts everything else said on that level. Thanks Nick -- "that's an answer" |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 9:24 am: | |
Thanks Nick! |
TomD (Tifosi)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 6:19 am: | |
thanks Nick |
Nick Scianna (Nick)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 3:19 am: | |
Hi.Here is some oil info for anyone intersted.Mobil 1 is fully compatible with the elastomeric seals and gasket materials used in most modern engines.In engines that are in good condition,seal compatibility will not be a problem.Some older engines produced before the mid-1970s were manufactured with looser tolerances than today's engines.Low-viscosity grades of oil can leak from these engines.The solution is to use a higher-viscosity grade like Mobil 1 15W-50 to reduce this leakage which is what we use in most Ferrari's anyways.Contrary to what many may believe,synthetic lubricants are not a recent development.As early as the 1930s,Standard Oil of Indiana conductedresearch into synthetic oil.More serious development and production was commenced by the Germans during WWII, as their conventional lubricants congealed and froze on the Eastern front and stalled their advances into the Soviet Union.As jet engines were developed after the war,it soon became evident that conventional lubricating oils couldn't
withstand the high temperatures and pressures, and synthetics came to be used in all military commercial jet aircraft engines.Then in the 1960s history repeated itself, and it was again cold weather that spurred further development work as the U.S.Army needed better lubricants for Arctic and Antarctic use.Still later, NASA specified synthetic-based lubes for all space vehicles, including the Space Shuttle.Today's automotive synthetic lubricants have evolved as an almost direct result of these demanding military and extraterrestrial lubrication requirements.
The U.S. Department of Energy lists no fewer than *sixteen* performance
parameters for any modern automotive motor oil. These are:
-Low temperature fluidity (low pour point)
-Low volatility...i.e. resistance to evaporation and resultant oil
thickening...good oil economy, additional engine protection
-High temperature oxidation resistance (of the oil itself)
-Lubricity...the oil's slipperiness
-Thermal stability...resistance to performance loss due to temperature
change
-Compatibility with engine metals, elastomers (i.e. "rubber" seals), oil
filter elements, paints, and finishes
-Wear protection and film strength
-Freedom from deposit formation...good dispersant and detergent
characteristics
-Compatibility with other engine oils and additive packages
-Extended drain capability
-Water stability...propensity to remain separate of water molecules
-Corollary effects on an engine's octane requirements
-Ambient-startup protection...ability to protect against oil starvation
during initial startup
-Anti-rust properties
-Compatibility with catalytic emission control systems
-Compatibility with alcohol-containing fuels Low-temperature fluidity ("flowability") becomes an important consideration where winters are severe.Because synthetics are constructed "building block by building block",contaminates present in
petroleum oil which contribute to low-temp thickening are entirely
absent in synthetics, and fluidity is stable to as low as -65F.
Petroleum oils have an inherent percentage of paraffin crystals from
their crude oil origins.As temperatures drop, these crystals enlarge
and cause the oil to congeal.In extremely cold weather, petroleum oils
become a solid mass, thus impeding cold starts, and when the engine does
fire up, causing a period of engine operation without adequate
lubrication until the lubricant is warmed enough to allow proper oil
flow. Furthermore, because of synthetics' better ring-sealing
characteristics, fewer contaminants generated by fuel combustion are
allowed to escape into the oil pan. Thus the low-temp fluidity and
film-strength properties of synthetics both contribute significantly to
enginelife in colder climeates.In one
cold cranking test conducted by Mobil,at -30F, with Mobil 1 in the
crankcase, the engine turned at an average speed of 152 RPM, and
started; using 10W-30 and 10W-40 premium petroleum oils, the same engine
cranked at 45 and 32 RPM respectively... and failed to start. Mobil
states that its Mobil 1 (5W-30) all-season synthetic may be used *in any
engine* where 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40, or single-viscosity oil is normally
recommended by the manufacturer; its new "Formula 15W-50" synthetic is
designed to replace and outperform those SAE 15W-40 and 20W-50
conventional oils preferred by some drivers for use in high-performance
powerplants.
Ambient-start oil starvation is,at ANY TEMPERATURE,a major cause of
engine wear.Expert estimates vary as to how much abrasive wear is
attributable to lubrication-starvation during initial startups, but it
is generally conceded that a disproportionate share of an engine's
abrasion and wear is caused during those few moments after initial
cranking during which the oil has not yet reached full circulation. NEO
Oil Company, a well established and highly-respected producer of
synthetic lubricants, has recently developed an extended-life lubricity
additive for its synthetic motor oils specifically designed to remain on
the bearing surfaces after the engine shutdown and thus deliver
additional lubrication and wear-protection for initial startups.
On the other end of the thermal spectrum, synthetic oils are also
renowned for their high-temperature thermal stability. Superior
high-temp stability ensures and engine lubricant's capacity to protect
vital engine components during very-high-temperature operation, such as
hot summer driving, sustained high-speed driving, repetitious stop and
go metropolitan driving, driving in mountainous terrain,etc.Underhood temperatures also take a quantum leap with the use of Turbos,Superchargers or
power options,such as air conditioning b& because of emissions
devices and emissions-related engine redesign. It is important to note
that, even though the dash gauge may register only a 200F or so
water/coolant temperature, the temperature of the sump and of all the
assorted bearing surfaces significantly exceed the water temperature,
and OFTEN SURPASS 500F on the piston ring and cylinder wall areas.
These high-temperature surfaces serve to rapidly decompose petroleum oil
and additives, as well as contribute to their shorter service life,
while the synthetic is largely unaffected. Beyond the protection
afforded an engine during these particular instances of high-operating
temperatures, high-temp thermal stability moreover permits an engine
oil to deliver overall extended service life (significantly longer drain
intervals) in all driving conditions, because it prevents the phenomenon
of sludge and carbon deposit formations on critical engine parts
(valves, valve guides, oil channels,cam followers, piston rings,etc.
al.) due to oil thickening, a problem commonly attributable to petroleum
oil breakdown at high temperature. As these deposits accumulate in the
oil circulatory system, oil flow drops, thus accelerating engine wear.
To the user of synthetics, the benefits are (1) reduced wear of critical
engine components; (2) significantly reduced sludge and varnish... a
cleaner engine; (3) reduced engine drag due to uniform viscosity; and
(4) increased fuel economy due to reduced component wear.
Mobil Oil reported the results of simulated hot weather
performance with its Mobil 1 synthetic as evaluated by a standardized,
grueling engine test known as the Olds III-D. In this test, an
Oldsmobile 350" V8 engine is run for 64 hours at a 100-hp load and 300F
crankcase oil temperature. This test is designed to measure an oils
ability to resist oxidation and evaporation (and consequent thickening)
at high temperature. (If it seems odd that oil would *thicken* at high
temperature, consider the analogy of heating a pan of cold syrup on a
stove.At first it would become quite thinner, but if left for, say,
several hours, the resultant evaporation would cause the syrup to become
progressively thicker.) In order to qualify for the American Petroleum
Institutes top "SF" rating, a motor oil must pass the III-D test. This
means that it can thicken to no more than 375% of original viscosity at
the end of 64 hours of continuous running. Mobil states: "To test the
extra stability provided by the Mobil synthetic oil, we decided to run
the III-D *for 128 hours*...double its normal length...and without oil
drain. The Mobil 1 synthetic easily passed the test under these brutal
conditions, thickening only an insignificant 20%. For comparison, a
high-performance premium conventional oil was tested under identical
conditions. That test had to stop at 96 hours; the oil had turned
solid. Another premium conventional oil forced the the test to stop at
112 hours, well before the end of the scheduled double length." Amoco
Conducted an identical double-sequence III-D test on its Ultimate 5W-30
synthetic; it also passed the test with flying colors, thickening only
18%.
"Film strength" refers to the amount of pressure required to force out a
film of oil from between two pieces of flat metal.The higher the film
strength,the more protection is provided to such parts as piston rings,
timing chain, cams, lifters, and rocker arms...wherever the lubricant is
not under oil-system pressure.Synthetics routinely exhibit a nominal
film strength of well over 3,000 psi, while petroleum oils average
somewhat less than 500 psi.The result is more lubricant protection
between moving parts with synthetics.The remarkable ability of synthetic oils to reduce internal operating
temperatures is far too important to ignore, since high operating
temperatures contribute directly to premature failure of mechanical
components and gaskets and seals.Coolant (i.e. water/antifreeze) cools
only the upper regions of an engine.The task of COOLING the crankshaft,
main and connecting rod bearings,the timing gears and,the
camshafts and its journals,and numerous other components must borne
entirely by the oil.There are three identifiable reasons why synthetics do a better job of cooling an engine: (1) Because of both the
oil's lubricity (slipperiness) and it's stable viscosity, less
friction-- and thus less heat-- is generated in the first place; (2) The
molecular structure of the oil itself is designed to more efficiently
transfer heat, even compared against the thermal conductivity properties
(ability to absorb and dissipate heat) of an identical-viscosity
petroleum oil; and (3) As mentioned in the preceding paragraph, the more
rapid oil flow of these lower-viscosity synthetics contributes
significantly to the efficient transfer and dissipation of heat.
*Because of all these factors, oil-temperature decreases of from 20F to
50F are quite common with the use of synthetic oil*. One might even say
that the heat-reduction properties of synthetics are synergistic...by
helping to reduce its own temperature, the synthetic oil is
simultaneously enhancing the lubricant's overall performance
characteristics.
In a Popular Science article on synthetic oils, veteran race car
driver Smokey Yunick was quoted: "When you disassemble an engine that's
been run on petroleum oil, if you examine the rings and cylinder bores
with a glass you'll see ridges and scratches--that's the wear going on.
With polyol (a variety of synthetic), when you take the engine apart
everything has the appearance of being chrome-plated. In the engine we
ran at Indianapolis this year we used a polyol synthetic.When we tore
the engine down, you could still see the original honing marks on the
bearings...no wear at all.We put the same bearings back in because the
crankshaft never touched the bearings.
OIL performance RESULTS IN TESTS. compliled from various sources.Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not available
Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc
20W-50
AMSOIL 136 482 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 ---
Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .9 ---
Red Line 150 503 -49 --- ---
Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12
15W-50
Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11
Mobil 1 170 470 -55 --- ---
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 152 503 -49 --- ---
15W-40
AMSOIL 135 460 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 ---
Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 149 495 -40 --- ---
Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13
Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13
The numbers above are not, by any means, all there is to
determining what makes a top quality oil. The exact base
stock used, the type, quality, and quantity of additives
used are very important.The given data combined with the
manufacturer's claims,your personal experience, and the
reputation of the oil among others who use it should help
you make an informed choice.Hope this helps some of you.Regards.Nick Scianna. www.nicksforzaferrari.com |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 1:18 pm: | |
20w-50 or lighter?
Also keep in mind us more southern people. It's 100+ degrees more than 30 days a year, but only below freezing maybe 2 days a year. |
Nick Scianna (Nick)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2001 - 1:46 am: | |
Mobil 1 in the gearbox is a must!I get in customers cars one shift and I can tell what kind of oil is in the gear box.Do your gearbox a favor!Mobil 1!.With respect to engine oil.Mobil 1 is what I personally recomend in 308's/especialy 3.2 liter 4 valve engines that are driven hard,some of you guys out there have experienced rides in my cars and know what I mean by the term"driven hard".With respect to TR & 512 engines,I do like Swepco,it quiets down the valvetrain compared to the Mobil 1,but then again if you are going to drive the car hard,synthetic is the way to go.I will post some technical info on oils shortly and some opinions & findings in personal tests & other lab tests,some of you are missing the point,its called "start up" Thats where most of the wear is!Its the two extremes! cold & hot! |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 4:35 pm: | |
That is correct Gene. I use it in my 308 and shifting is much smoother. Go to the keyword search and type in Mobil 1 gear lubricant. You will see a lot of guys on this Chat Line use it and are very satisfied. |
Gene B. Radcliffe - 308 GTS (Brcbank)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 4:10 pm: | |
Sorry I jumped the gun - the Mobil 1 site say:
Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lubricant is an Indy 500-certified, multipurpose gear oil. It is manufactured from synthesized hydrocarbon base oils and a specially designed extreme- pressure, limited-slip, sulfur-phosphorus additive package.
and
Subzero flow down to -50°F (-46°C)
Maximum resistance to breakdown from heat and extended high speed
Excellent limited-slip performance
I conclude it is LSD compatible without additives. |
Gene B. Radcliffe - 308 GTS (Brcbank)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 4:00 pm: | |
I am going to put Mobil 1 in the gearbox, but not the engine. Do I need to add LSD additives or is Mobil 1 LSD ready/compatible? |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 3:03 pm: | |
Yeah that's the setup I've been using too. My car was being run on 20w-50 so I kept using that (Valvoline), my jeep uses it too so it works out well. I have Amsoil 75w-90 in the gearbox, but I got a whole bunch of Mobil 1 for when I change it soon. |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 11:29 pm: | |
I'm going to stick with conventional oil in the engine and syn. in the trans. Everything works so well, why change. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 11:19 pm: | |
I just use normal Dino oil cause for the price I could change it five times (roughly every 600 miles) for every one time I could change synthetic. New cars are designed for synthetic and all so I would say use them, but the older cars weren't designed for it so I don't think they really need it. Ferraris did run before the advent of synthetics. If it aint broke don't fix it.
And no I'm not trying to disprove any facts about the advantages of synthetics. |
Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 7:42 pm: | |
I have a Corvair which is a flat 6 and I use Mobil 1 and my car does not smoke at all at any time, so that eliminates that theory unless the Ferrari flat engine does not seal as well as a Corvair. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 5:50 pm: | |
I am going to add what I was tought/told to this discussion and if everyone reading this disagrees with me, then let me know that I have my foot in mouth.
There is a line of thinking that says that flat/opposed engines should NOT have synthetic oil since the oil doesn't really drain out of the cylinders when the engine is not running. With V and inline engines that have gravity to help the residual oil move past the seals on the piston (I know that is where the theory fails, oil shouldn't move past those seals, right?)
Alot of P-car folks swear by this, as they see alot of black puffing from their tailpipes upon startup and during downshifting/hard acceration (freeway passing situations).
Well when I got my TR it had I think Valvoline Durablend 20-50 IIRC. It was drained, steam cleaned (sump tank and cooler too) and sat on a rack for about a month without any oil so I think all the old stuff is out.It now has Swepco 5-30 I think. No leaks to be seen anywhere.
At several recent Concours events where TRs were lined up in a row 9 of 10 puffed various quantities of black smoke upon startup, mine did not puff anything. Not sure if that is maybe engine condition or this oil thing or something else...
-Ben |
Grady C. Smith (Italianauto)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 8:14 pm: | |
Go ahead and use synthetic oils.....the seal leak thing is something that was solved years ago with synthetics. BTW....with 2 valve 8 cylinder motors and 246's the valve buckets/shims are relatively heavy and these guys will run quieter with a 20/50 rather than a lighter oil if the weather permits......don't use in 25 degrees or so. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 7:21 pm: | |
Since I've had the car on the road, I've been using in the gearbox regular 80W90 EP LSD trans oil and have no problems shifting in any gear at any temperature.
Currently, I have 20W50 in the engine but within the next 100~200 miles, I'll be switching over to Castrol Syntec 5W50.
No leaks yet on the garage floor... |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 6:54 pm: | |
My 2 cents:
Nothing is Better then Red Line synthetic oils. Mobil, Shell and the rest of them are mass marketers, Red line is a specialized synthetic racing oil company + they have been doing it longer then all the others.
http://www.redlineoil.com |
Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 4:43 pm: | |
All Corvettes come from the factory with Mobil 1 so I do not believe there is any truth to the break in rumor. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 3:18 pm: | |
Two weeks ago, I put Mobil 1 Synthetic 75w90 on my TR gearbox. I have been driving the car more than what I normally do these past two weeks, and my current impression is that shifting is definitely smoother, specially when cold. No leaks of any kind on my car at this point (humm...,where is that piece of wood?) |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 12:42 pm: | |
Ferrari dealerships insist on using shell helix on all 355/360's under warranty.DUH! (shell underwrites Ferrari racing)
I have been told by 2 Ferrari tech's who are out on their own that Mobil 1 is equally as good and less than 1/2 the price.
I would be interested in Nick's opinion. |
Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 10:55 am: | |
I have been told that engines should not be broken in with synthic - that it is too slippery and the engine might not break in correctly.
After breaking in, then switch to synthics.
Is there any truth to not breaking in with synthics?
I do not have a Ferrari yet (will get a 328 soon) but have synthics in everything else (to include an airplane) and am pleased. |
TomD (Tifosi)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 9:50 am: | |
I just started using syn oil - castrol syntec, I have not noticed any leaks. I was able to get it for 3.50 a quart on special - limit 6 but they did not hold me to it. I don't think you can get 5w-50 in regular oil, which is what I think you need up north if you run your car in the colder months. Try starting the car in 15 degree weather with 20w-50 in the motor |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 9:11 am: | |
My understanding is that some seals "swell" a little in conventional oils and that early synthetic oils did not have this characteristic -- ergo, the "leaks" when switching over to synthetic. I believe there are now additives in the later synthetic oils to give the same slight seal swelling effect so leaks are no longer a problem. For me, I just can't justify the (4X?) price difference, and would say a (hot) turbocharger is the only critical application that really requires a synthetic oil -- JMHOs (although I do use AGIP or Amsoil synthetic in the gearbox) |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 5:12 am: | |
Lawrence;
sh*t maybe that is why the engines of Mc Laren blow every time! :-)))))
I am using M-1 and have no problems either. If you do your service as you should and replace seals and have the engine checked every now and so often, why should you worry. In my garage I see a leaking seal immediately. |
Peter Boray (Gts308qv)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 3:49 am: | |
I use Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 full synthetic in my 308 QV and have no oil leaks. Oil & filter is changed every 6 months. I use REPSOL 75w90 full synthtic racing gear oil in the transmission. This has transformed the gearbox and all shifts, even second gear are smooth and clean even when cold. The limited slip diff has also become more positive and smoother. This stuff is expensive, but you only have to change every 3-5 years depending on mileage and car useage.
If your car leaks with synthetic oils, then it will leak with regular mineral oils as well. |
Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:18 pm: | |
My $.02 here.
I have used Mobil-1 since I bought my '91 348 last year. No drips, leaks, smoking or anything else. Engine runs very strong (sounds great with the K&N also) heck, it doesn't even get dirty.
My local F-Car dealer service dept told me the new cars have to use Shell Helix but they do all oil changes the 348/355/456/550 - 1999 and earlier with M1.
Also, if the McLaren-Mercedes F1 team uses Mobil-1, I'm sure their expertise on this matter is a tad more significant than mine and a pretty decent endorsement tfor the product.
Works for me.
>> Larry |
Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 9:49 pm: | |
Though I have never seen it happen, I have heard of some incompatability of Synthetics with some seal materials causing failures, but how to tell without experimenting is unknown to me. GM did have some rear main seals to fail on some 3.1 engines due to the factory lubricant placed in the lips of the seals when new, so that shows that seals can fail with an incompatable lubricant. I have Mobil 1 in everything that I own except the Ferrari, with no problems. The lubricant plate on my 82 308 calls for AGIP synthetic blend, so If a partial synthetic will work then I would have to believe a full synthetic would also. I currently use AGIP 20w50 regular oil. |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 9:34 pm: | |
However, regarding the leaks, as long as the viscosity is the same I can't see where synthetics would leak past the seals any more so than reg. oils. |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 9:30 pm: | |
I also have been in question about using synthetic oil in my engine because of many "old wives tales" regarding synthetics. I do use Mobile one gear case oil though and I am very pleased with it. I think I am correct in saying that Nick Scianna uses Mobil one in all his engines including the rebuilds. Nick, Maybe you could give us some pros and cons on this subject. We would appreciate your comments. Haven't heard from you in a while. Thanks, MAGOO |
Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 9:07 pm: | |
I am not a mechanic, but it would seem that if valve seal sealant was put on the seals when installed and they were torqued down correctly, then they should not leak. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 7:59 pm: | |
I heard the same thing and was told by several TR owners not to use synthetics in my car. Why, well, no one ever gave me a complete reason but everything revolved around leaking valve seals due to wider tolerances used in pre-synthetic oil designed engines. How true this is -- I really do not know. Until then good ole 15W50 for me every 2,000 miles.
Plus I don't want her to run cooler anyway -- stays nice and steady at 195/200 in just about all weather. -- go enough to hit the throttle full at any time w/out worrying about temps. |
Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 7:50 pm: | |
How well does synthic oils work in Ferrari's?
Last winter in a MB diesel sedan (everyday car), I tried Mobile 1. I was surprised at the difference. Better cold weather starting, lower running temps at both city and highway conditions.
However, I have also heard that some Ferrari seals leak oil which synthic oils would increase.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of using something like Mobile 1 in a Ferrari 328? |
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