| Author |
Message |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 417
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 9:35 pm: | |
Bearings aint Bearings.....that's what I'm finding out. Lots of differences even if externally similar. Not worth taking chances if your not sure what your getting.
As far as cross referencing, I've tried with several suppliers and they all say "no luck". They can usually match any two of the three dimensions (O.D. ; I.D. ; Width) but not all three simultaneously. One supplier called the bearing maker and was treated like he was asking questions about some "secret weapon", and they wouldn't divulge anything. I believe the part number has a number or letter in it that waves a red flag, revealing the "true" end use of said bearing. So no information is forth coming. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 1037
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 9:24 pm: | |
Phil,
re:"Bearings aint bearings
There are quality and dimension specs within a given size that vary..."
The above all come under 'characteristics'. You have to start with the original part's part#, then get a bearing supplyer to cross-reference to get equivalent specs.
I think that's what the rest of this thread has been saying.
BTW, search for 'bearings' & find the bearing info posted under one of the 'timing drive' threads. |
Paul Hill (348paul)
Member
Username: 348paul
Post Number: 346
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 4:49 pm: | |
Jeff,
Can you give me the number off the bearing - If it is the same dual angular contact bearing that is used in the 308/328/512BB I can get hold of them, although they are not listed in the SKF book.
Paul
|
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 413
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 3:21 pm: | |
Well...just to share my experiences, I tried to locate the TR tensioner bearings through normal industrial channels. No Luck! The first question is "what are they for?" So I told them they are for one of our foreign-made spring coiling machines. He says that part number is very similar, but not exactly, what shows in their computer system. He says he will call me back with more information. After a few minutes he calls and is totally confused about the situation. He says, and I quote: " There doesn't seem to be any at all in the U.S., and none appear on back order. Heck...the manufacturer barely admitted that they make that part!" And then he laughs. He asks me: "does this go on some government project or something?" I play stupid and stick to my story. So, just for those who are curious, you probably will NOT be able to domestically source these bearings. And I would NOT try and second guess or come up with an alternative. The Rep. told me these are dual-row angled ball bearings, and that the spec.s make them uncommon. It figures Ferrari couldn't use a "standard" item but had to have it their own way. Any way I look at it, I'm barking up the wrong tree, but it was a bit of fun finding out. |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 411
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 8:37 pm: | |
I figured this thread would die a quick death...but the information is really interesting to say the least. I agree the suppliers need to stay in business, but to have a profit margin (theoretically speaking) of say 100% seems on the edge of robbery. The little voice in my head is telling me to shut up now. |
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
New member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 8:36 pm: | |
A bit of product info here.
The early cars had a simple bearing inside a re-usable housing, with two special cups to facilitate the eccentric adjustment that just push in....but nowadays most of the cars have had the one piece type fitted. The bearing is easily sourced and changed on the 4 piece types.
The one piece bearing is really hard if not impossible and that's why I've done this batch.
In Australia, the one piece bearing cost $612AU each and I can sell my one for $250AU each with the small mods done.
If you still have a 4 piece brg, you're in luck and can just change them easily.
My batch has all the correct seals and quality spec. It also has a slightly smaller internal brg diameter, thus reducing the speed of the balls for any given engine rpm and therefore longer life. |
Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Member
Username: Tbakowsky
Post Number: 497
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 6:33 pm: | |
Little trick for ya...We have an SKF bearing distributor in town were I live. I was doing a timing belt service on a 355, and the dealer did not have anymore tensioner bearings left in stock. I removed the old bearing and took the number off the bearing. I called a jobber to ask if they could go directly to SKF. I found out through the jobber about all the licencing stuff that lots of car manufacturers do, to keep dealer items, dealer items. So I called up SKF and asked if they could match up a bearing for me. They said to bring it down. They had a look at it and they asked me what it was from..I said it was off a milling machine. They said O.K. and orderd the bearings. The bearings arrived with the same part numbers they took off the old bearing. Guess how much? $45 bucks CND. They can sell it as long as it does not go into a Ferrari!! |
Paul Hill (348paul)
Member
Username: 348paul
Post Number: 343
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 6:06 pm: | |
Phil,
Sounds like a good find! - What type of seals does it have on it?
Paul |
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
New member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 5:56 pm: | |
Is that all, you should get therapy for it!
No. I've found a one piece eccentric adjustable bearing that only needs it's offset and width slightly modified.
It'll be sold as a kit that can be changed as a service part in the time it takes to remove the bolt. No pressing, hammering etc. |
Paul Hill (348paul)
Member
Username: 348paul
Post Number: 342
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 5:35 pm: | |
Phil,
*# Inches!
I was just curious if you were still using the 63006
Paul
|
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
New member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 5:25 pm: | |
Cheeky question...how long is your ••••...! |
Paul Hill (348paul)
Member
Username: 348paul
Post Number: 340
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 3:37 pm: | |
Phil,
What the similar bearing are you using on the 355/360 tensioners?
Paul |
Paul Hill (348paul)
Member
Username: 348paul
Post Number: 339
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 2:35 pm: | |
The problem with certain bearings that Ferrari use is that they are made under licence (usually from SKF) and are quite difficult (but not impossible!) to find from certain bearing distributors!
Paul
|
William Henderson (Billh)
Junior Member
Username: Billh
Post Number: 72
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 9:05 am: | |
bearings is just bearings. Ferrari, like any equipment manufacturer, have to select parts from books like anyone else. if you look on the side of the bearings there will be a number from the original supplier. SKF or FAG will be on there with a string of numbers. if you can find that bearing locally, you may be ahead of the game....
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Malcolm West (Ferrari_uk_tech)
New member
Username: Ferrari_uk_tech
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 8:35 am: | |
I agree with Phil, bearings aint bearings - the best advise for such a vital component is to fit original equipment, what a lot of people don't realise is that a lot belt failures are caused by the failure of the tensioner bearing |
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
New member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 10:43 pm: | |
Bearings aint bearings
There are quality and dimension specs within a given size that vary...eg ----/C3 is hard to obtain and refers to a distance between ball races that distributes load better than just ----...
Ferrari are buggers and it's almost impossible to source identical bearings to directly replace the OE fitment, on all cars post 1980 really.
I'm just going through getting a small batch of 355/360 bearings. I've found a similar bearing that just need minor mod's to work. It'll end up being less than half Ferrari cost, but many owners want the peace of mind of genuine parts anyway, so it's up to individuals. |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 409
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 9:42 pm: | |
Thank You Verell....that is very helpful information. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 8:31 pm: | |
Bearings is Bearings as long as they're from a reputable mfg. & have the same characteristics, seals, etc. Bearings are highly standardized these days, & their precision & hardness is probably an order of magnitude better than when your car was originally mfg'd. If your tensioner bearings are like the 3x8s, they're a pair of std bearings pressed into a cylindrical sleeve. If you're going to press the old ones out, be aware that some of the dual bearing tensioner cylinders have a C-clip in between the bearings.
If the tensioners are like the 3x8 tensioners, the springs are only active during a belt change.
They establish the belt's working tension, then the tensioners are locked in place with a bolt.
BTW,Plan on dis-assembling, cleaning & greasing the tensioners. As long as the springs aren't rusting away they should be fine.
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Jeff Green (Carguy)
Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 408
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 3:06 pm: | |
Has anyone installed bearings that are domestically available onto their tensioners? Our tool room has a huge selection of bearings that work at continuously high speed on various machines. Is there anything special about the bearings Ferrari uses?
Also, do the tensioners themselves need replacing? It appears that the tension load is spring generated, so unless the spring is weak or broken, I would think the tensioner itself should be okay.
I'm not trying to be cheap here, just wanting to what options I have. Any advice is appreciated. |