| Author | Message | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 2026 Registered: 1-2001 |
Kermit -- Will you also be able to include direct crankcase pressure measurements with the dyno runs for each configuration (i.e., add pressure/vacuum instrumentation somewhere to the crankcase)? Might be more sensitive/interesting than just trying to measure small HP changes (e.g., wonder if it might change in some unexpected way vs RPM) -- just a thought... Look forward to your results and appreciate your efforts to better quantify the effects. | ||
| Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member Username: Kermit Post Number: 144 Registered: 8-2001 |
Sorry it has taken a bit to get back to you gentlemen's questions. The new virus has wrecked havoc with things over here, site went down, puter unresponsive, wow! To answer the questions as best I can, and if the pics post with this, the illustration will be easier to understand. The old version required the complete removal of the stock oil separator, includeing blocking off the oil drain to the sump. This made it difficult to dyno, with the work involved in changeing over and back, etc. As you can see, the new version fits in place of the stock valve cover fitting, and allows the use of the stock oil separator as it is. One has the option of venting to atmosphere, or to the intake, a purely personal choice. One of the quirks found in the old design was as it vented away from the motor, and it's heat, the 3/8" line would often load up with condensate, as it was the first exposure to cooler lines, therefore the natural combustion vapors would condense the moisture there. This semed to be a problem only if the car was driven a lot of short trips. The condensation issue was quite well addressed in another thread. The new style useing the stock breather lines, does not have this problem. As it iis a much simpler settup, simply changeing the fittings, a dyno run will be a breeze. I am currently installing one new set on a clients 83mm 308, and I will dyno them as the car is being finetuned on the dyno. I look for this to occur within the next 30 days, and I'll post the results to the findings. As to dry sumping, as it relates: Yes, the dry sump does provide vacuum as well, and as we all know is the ideal oiling system. An intersting insight missed is that it takes power to turn the extra pump gears, while the KV does not take any power to run. I would not in any wy claim that they produce as much vacuum as a well settup dry sump, however, as the driven pump would no doubt beat it every time. The topic of turbo and superchargeing, as it relates to 3x8's I have personally not had hands on experience with yet, so I do not make claims. I do note that on the ET Performance site the threads there have more input on auto use in this area, so I would refer any questions to them. Feel free. As with anything new, there will always be those for and against. Believers, and non believers. that is life. some swear by them, some at them, thats reality. Myself, personally, I have them on everything I drive. So I would be on the for side. I do hope this answers the questions, and the pics upload. If by chance they do not, my computer repair person can assist me in posting them later, as I'm still not sure the virus is gone. Kermit | ||
| Stewart Chung (Navygakman)
Junior Member Username: Navygakman Post Number: 102 Registered: 2-2002 |
Paul: I have no intimate knowledge of what really happened to your heads so I have not posted any opinion here as to who is at fault. All I know is I have not heard Kermit�s defense so I reserve judgment on that, and I asked others to do the same. I saw your posts early on slamming him telling others �not to do business with him�, used phrases like �be forewarned�, �very bad experience�, �taken for more than $5,000� and on and on. Well, those are very strong opinions, but you are entitled to your experience and they are valid. But my positive experience with Kermit is also valid. He did some major work to my car (I spent far more $$ than you spend on the heads), yes, there were some bugs when I first got the car back, but he stood behind his work and in the end, fixed them all at no additional charge to me. My car is running great now and he is STILL addressing any little concerns I have. He felt this is the right thing to do - that makes him a stand up guy in my book, and just about as much as you can expect from an independent tuner/mechanic who does not have the financial backing of a full blown dealership. As to the �emails you kept that tell a different story�, SO WHAT? Have I ever gotten mad at Nick or Kermit? Probably many times. But in the end they (notice that I use the word �they�) made good on their promise and got my car running better and stronger than before. That�s what counts in my book. I consider both Kermit and Nick my friends. They are both good guys caught in difficult circumstances but I have no need to take sides. Yes, Kermit has tried harder for me and certainly more responsive than Nick. But I see no reason for me to slam Nick either. Life is too short to be vindictive, I saw way too much hatred in this world already in my days with uniform on... Stewart BTW, for the time both my car and your heads were at Kermit�s, you did help in getting them to work together to finish and get my car out. I do thank you for that. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2574 Registered: 4-2002 |
ITS HAS A "CANADIEN FIREWALL" LOL.. I HAVE A NEW EMAIL ADDRESS.... | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1233 Registered: 12-2001 |
Then fix your profile, I sent a "private message" through it. i guess it doesnt workie. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2573 Registered: 4-2002 |
[email protected] | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 173 Registered: 7-2002 |
sheeeesh | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2572 Registered: 4-2002 |
HEY PAULIE RECEIVED NO [email protected] | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1232 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hi Brucie. What? No response to my email you old fart? Forget to pay the phone bill again? | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 613 Registered: 3-2001 |
Stewart, Your defense of Kermit is quite unbeleivable, I look forward too your story because I kept every e-mail in my effort to get your car finished and out of the shop, so be accurate because kermits and your e-mails tell a whole different story. And Stewart your car would still be in Blaine if Nick had not gone in finished what others were incapable of doing. Again the e-mails (yours and Kermits) paint quite a different picture than your statements here I look forward to posting them in rebuttal to any false story you tell. The story is quite simple and Stewart you should really keep your mouth closed when you have no involvement or knowledge of what Kermit did to my heads. I know what he did to your car. I promise you one thing I intend on using the courts to recover all the Finanicial damages I incurred. When the case is decided I will let all know the outcome, I am extremely optimistic based on the evidence. Again all i Say is let the buyer beware. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1230 Registered: 12-2001 |
Yes I am, to get even for the mad cows you yankies sold us . | ||
| Stewart Chung (Navygakman)
Junior Member Username: Navygakman Post Number: 101 Registered: 2-2002 |
I am really PISSED that I have not been able to buy good oranges for almost a month! Even Costco is out of them. I got six from QFC a couple of weeks ago and ALL six of them were bad. I got some from Fred Meyer last week and they were from Australia. I finally got some from Costco today and they are from South Africa!! Where the hell are the Florida and California oranges??? I am having an orange withdrawal. Newman you got something to do with this?? | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Advanced Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 2569 Registered: 4-2002 |
CANT WE ALL GET ALONG A BIG HELLO TO MY FRIENDS PAUL NEWMAN AND DAVE HANDA....  BRUCIE | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1229 Registered: 12-2001 |
Just another point David, the thread is a discussion about crankvents. Does that mean we should not mention the possibility that they are garbage because someone might be insulted? I would rather hear the truth about a product than be mislead by the silence from other members. And yes, I read about dyno numbers in the future but I read that a year ago too. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1228 Registered: 12-2001 |
HANDA Im only ranting about kermit , nick and their claims not your chum so relax. Its for the benefit of other potential buyers. Its opinions that some people are looking for that have to understand that some of these gimmicks are crapola rather than everyone here stroking kermit or nick thinking they are the be all and end all of ferrari modification. You know, 2 sides to every story, happy consumers and not-so-happy ones. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1509 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hello NEWMAN! Dude, I think you need to take a breather. Stewart is a good friend of mine, and doesn't need your load of crap. Stewart just said there were two sides to the story, you have already made up your mind, fine, move on...But let's not start making personal attacks on Kermit, Stewart/and his car or anybody here. That is out of line. Bottom line, if you followed this thread, Kermit said he would have dyno numbers in a month. When the 30 days pass and he has posted nothing, then you can rant all you like. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1227 Registered: 12-2001 |
True, it is about krankvents and their claims. I am a non-believer in their effectiveness because the original claim was an increase in HP on a 308 specifically. Nick and Kermit jumped up and down about the HP increase and crankcase pressure relief being the reason. I asked for dyno numbers but never saw any, perhaps i missed the thread where they revealed the astonishing gains they provided as Im not a regular on the site. I tend to think that the designer of the engine had some idea of what he was doing and these gimmicks are just that. If you want more HP make changes inside rather than waste money learning and 207HP is nothing to brag about, I wouldnt have even posted that figure if i were you (RWHP or not). | ||
| Stewart Chung (Navygakman)
Junior Member Username: Navygakman Post Number: 100 Registered: 2-2002 |
My point is I don't think the story is as simple as Kermit's hand slipping and "Oops, hey we have an extra hole...." But then this thread is about Krant Vents, not Paul's beef with Kermit. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1226 Registered: 12-2001 |
Stewart, yes there are 2 sides to every story but knowing Kermit pats himself on the back about the magic he performs on heads, one must assume that if there are holes in the heads where none should be, then perhaps he made a mistake while hogging out the already well designed ports? Unless Paul bumped his arm while he was grinding away so its not kermit's fault at all. If he's a stand up guy then he might swallow his ego and replace the head at his own expense. I would in a situation like this and save myself the stoning on this board not to mention its the right thing to do. | ||
| Stewart Chung (Navygakman)
Junior Member Username: Navygakman Post Number: 99 Registered: 2-2002 |
I know the effectiveness of crank vents will be debated for a while. I am not much of a tech head so I won't comment on them on a technical level. My car is the car with all the Kermit/Nick mods and it has the crank vents. But I can say that, it is working for me doing 207 HP at the dyno (not just due to the crank vents of course). I believe you can get them from Kermit. He just launched his new site which is www.durable1.com And if you talk to him, he can explain better what they do - Kermit is a very articulated guy. BTW, I see that Paul Sloan had some issues with Kermit and his opinions were posted here. There are always two sides to a story and I am not here to defend Kermit. But from MY point of view, having worked with both Nick and Kermit for the last 2 1/2 years, I can say Kermit is one of the most honorable and stand up guy I have ever met. I truly think that my car will still be in Blaine if not for him. And I have absolutely no hesitation working with Kermit again or buying parts from him. ABSOLUTELY no hesitation. And no, I am not sleeping with Kermit and I have nothing to gain from saying this. When I get around to doing a web page on my rebuild with all experience documented, you guys will see what I went through and you can make your own judgement. Stewart 79 308GTB Carbed | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 563 Registered: 2-2001 |
P.S. to my post - I needed to pass emissions to re-register my car this week, so the Krank Vent and Catalytic 'test' pipes came off and all OEM emissions stuff went back on (left K&N in place). Car ran better AND passed emissions with "cleanest test of car of this vintage we ever saw!" | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 562 Registered: 2-2001 |
From my understanding Krank Vent isn't so much about dyno HP as much as about reducing crankcase preasures, reducing preasure related oil leaks (and I have none now)and maybe slight improvement in engine RPM/acceleration lapse times. Worth the price? Does it really work? Can't say, but I can say I now longer have any oil leaks from anywhere but oil pan nuts.... | ||
| C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 248 Registered: 3-2002 |
Steve, Mark, Jeff, Etc--Ponder this.... there is a small vacuum line from the seperator to the plenum. Does this draw fresh air in from "A" to "B" or is there a vacuum from intake pulling fumes out from "B" to "A"??? Since I have done my EFI conversion I have a Plug in hose at "A" but am considering if I need to un-plug and add a small air filter here--HENSE THE CURIOSITY ABOUT KRANK VENTS--MAYBE ELIMINATE THIS "AB" HOSE all together | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 172 Registered: 7-2002 |
Good info and thanks Steve and Mark. Just the stuff I was looking for. I already had an intuitive belief that the K-V would really add nothing in this application ('charged & dry sumped). I'll still be using one on my 4 cyl turbo'd wet sumped motor. On a normally aspirated motor it may or may not be needed, that should be the debate on the devices merits here. On my turbo'd app I do think it will work as K-V intened. As I mentioned before it's not any power gain from the device I'd b looking for, just the "side" benefit of not putting pressure behind the seals that keep oil on one side of them. Jeff Davison | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1991 Registered: 1-2001 |
Jeff -- I still think the effect of the Krank Vent will depend on the particular engine's overall crankcase volume and how much the crankcase volume changes with crankshaft rotation (i.e., absolutely appropriate for a Harley-Davidson, but I'm still unconvinced that it would be as effective on a symmetrical-motion multi-cylinder engine) -- JMG. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 642 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jeff, I'm pretty sure an active system like an engine driven pump can move a lot more air than a passive system, there's just more energy available. A Krank-vent may work to reduce crank case pressure, a dry sump or vacuum pump will work better IMO. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 171 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mark, I know the oil pump in a dry sump system is always doing it's thing but I'm curious if the vacuum it can potentially create inthe crank case is greater than the combination of blow-by and piston downward stroke pressurization (ya, I know there's an equal and opposit with the upward traveling pistons). I figure that putting a one way valve (the K-V) at least couldn't hurt. Jeff Davison | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 641 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jeff, If your dry sump is set-up properly you will have a vacuum in the crank case, so I just don't see it could leak oil out anywhere. When I was at the fuel cell(H2 into electric type) I solved a problem with not being able to seal the damm things by adding a vacuum pump to the cooling loop so the fuel cell was at -2 psi...not a hint of a leak....except air in the coolant. If you do the dry sump, you should be all set, if you don't then better case venting is probably in order. I'm thinking about this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MOR%2D25900 If that doesn't work, I'll try this http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MOR%2D22640 | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 342 Registered: 2-2003 |
As an alternative suggestion only, I've seen little K&N filters that fit on at 'C' in the drawing if you're not concerned about recirculation/recovery; could also use at 'B'. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 170 Registered: 7-2002 |
My questions remains to be answered. Thanks for the warning, BUT that is not what I seek! Geeze Paul,I thought you said that you'd keep the "issues" of your on going legal OFF this forum in your first post. and PLEASE stop sending me unsolicited private emails about him as well. OK....K-V (sourced from whom ever ....I can get them direct from the manufacturer) and super or turbo charging w/ dry sump???? Christ's Sake Paul! .. already know your story from your 1st post. All I want is experience from the device in usage! Jeff Davison | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 609 Registered: 3-2001 |
I bought a set of crank vents from Nick and someday I will install them on my Ferrari...after I repair the damage that kermit did to my engine. Be forewarned! | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 169 Registered: 7-2002 |
That may very well be, but that is an aside to the question and a personal matter. I seek the merits of the device itself and Both Nick and Krank-Vent themselves mentioned Kermit a few months ago to me. Your personal bad experience has nothing to do with the product itself, which is what I want the poop on, rather than who poopes on who. So.....How does the Krank-Vent work in conjuction with a super/turbo charged engine and dry-sumping??? It's not really a HP issue I'm concerned about, it's the blow-by and seal issue. I currently have a 15 psi turbo'd motor and the crank case is just vented to a catch tank. I have a very mild cam tower leak and since the KV is supposed to keep a negative pressure in the crank case, there would be a vacuum where pressure used to be and not try to force pressure out the top of the engine. Anyone? Jeff Davison | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 608 Registered: 3-2001 |
It has nothing to with Krank vents, it has to do with the person who is selling them. Let the Buyer beware. I would expect any user of this site to warn other users of a questionable source and pass on a very bad experience especially when they were taken for more than $5,000. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 639 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jeff, I'm not convinced a Krank-vent is helpful on any engine, I've never seen anyone produce any dyno numbers for it...I'm just guessing there is a reason for that. If you are doing a dry sump and the scavaging pumps are sized properly, you should see a decent vacuum in the crank case, which is the best condition you can have....I think a Krank-vent is just a poor substitute. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 168 Registered: 7-2002 |
Just curious, what does private legal actions have to do with the merits or usage of the Krank-Vent ? Is the Kramk-Vent supefluous or redundant on a dry sumped motor or does it work well? How about in a pressurized application with a dry sump, i.e. turbo or supercharged? Jeff Davison | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 600 Registered: 3-2001 |
For those that wish to do business with Matt "Kermit" Morgan I would advise you to call me as there are some serious issues that you should be aware of. I have the attorneys bills and documentation to support this warning as well as one 308QV head with several holes in it. I will not go into details on FC as I am currently working on filing a large $ legal action against Mr. morgan and will not risk that case on this forum. E-mail through my profile and I will contact you. I am not one too make false claims against another. Paul | ||
| Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member Username: Kermit Post Number: 142 Registered: 8-2001 |
CC, it will replce the fitting in the valve cover (your part "C", both sides). you can then run the A-B line to atmosphere if you wish. Personally, I do not like to feed this back into the motor, as it has nil for power value, due to it consisting primarily of blowby. Mark, it maybe possible that you were dealing with a problem that the new model eliminates. I found that when the car was driven for many "short" trips, the natural condensate that occurs would actually build up in the exit hoses, as they were the first cool line that the gases came into contact with. As the new version is plumbed into the stock oil separator, this will not occur. | ||
| C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 247 Registered: 3-2002 |
The following drawing from an 80 GTSI. I am interested in knowing what happens to existing lines and where you install the crank vent. I have done an EFI conversion to my car and am having a hard time finding a home for the hose from A to B. Am hoping the crank vent will allow me to eliminate this hose.  | ||
| C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 246 Registered: 3-2002 |
Now---I do not YET have a crank vent--but I did install a Moroso Accumulator to help smooth out the spikes and lows in oil pressure--seems to work. I got the small (1.5 qt) size , adds pressure on the track if it drops and if pressure gets too hi, more oil gets puched into canister--I do like this thing. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 560 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have a Krank Vent on my '82 GTSi from Nick; can't honestly feel any difference in power (took it off last night due to immanent emission test and did not notice any power loss), but I do not 'blowiby' any oil anywhere anymore. | ||
| Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member Username: Kermit Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2001 |
Philip, I wasn't lack of demand IMO. Lack of Dyno #'s was part of it, and as the previous model was more complicated, it made it naturally more costly to produce, then the markup didn't help either. In Talking to Dr Ted, @ ET Performance, I heard they are currently testing one at Hank The Crank's on a 355 inch NASCAR motor, and we will have #'s there too. Onthe topic of oilling problems, the windage tray tha was briefly shown on NFF's site is an excellent cure, at a cost far less than any other option. That, as well as much more will be on the site soon. one that will no doubt be welcomed will be I will be opening with a special on the Electromotive trigger wheels that use to be on NFF's site. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1608 Registered: 4-2002 |
I second that, Kermit. Start up a new thread when you have it all ready. | ||
| Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Member Username: Pma1010 Post Number: 331 Registered: 7-2002 |
Andy I talked to Bill Pound about the DS conversion stuff once before. It meant removing the AC compressor and about $3K of cost. Too much. I just overfill the case a bit on the track. As a result, oil likes to blow past the cam seals. Poor "solution" but better than seeing the OP needle falling way down on long right handers (like the Carousel at RA). BTW, did you ever sell that monster dry sumper of yours? Tommy, Nick indicated lack of demand but I think it was a bit pricey as Kermit seems to be suggesting. Kermit You'd know better than us whether the dyno bears out the claim of more HP. I know this has been debated in this forum before. If it is priced reasonably, I'd likely buy one to avoid the cam seal pressurization issue. Issue seems to be borne out in Bishop's book. Anyway, however you choose to position it, let us know when it'll be available. Philip | ||
| Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member Username: Kermit Post Number: 140 Registered: 8-2001 |
Nick is no longer the sales rep for products that are offered thru the Corporation I work for. There will be a new version coming out on my own site very soon. What I have done is to redesign them, based on a different model of ET Performances proven Krank Vent. The new model will simply replace the stock fitting in the cover, with the hose attaching it to the stock oil separator system, instead of the separator being added on to it, and venting separately. The new model will be more effecient, and will cost considerably less, due to the simpler design. Currently I am setting up a clients 83mm 308 with a set, and will get dyno #'s probably within the next 30 days. Getting dyno stats will be considerably easier than before, as all that is required is to replace a fitting with the KV, whereas before it was considerably more complicated. I'll post more info on this, and all the rest of the products very soon, as the site is almost done. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1236 Registered: 5-2001 |
why did Nick discontinue them? | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 177 Registered: 10-2002 |
Philip.... dry sump conversion in the offing too?? That'd fix that pressurization in a jiffy!! | ||
| Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Member Username: Pma1010 Post Number: 330 Registered: 7-2002 |
Lots of debate in the archives about efficacy (HP). I know my crankcase pressurizes oil past the cam seals when really hot. Howver, they are no longer available from Nick (unfortunately). Anyone else sell them? | ||
| C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 243 Registered: 3-2002 |
A while back I recall several people chatting about a new CRANK VENT and wanted to get info on them. A) do they indeed work and are they a "good" modification to make? B) where does one get one? c) how much? d) ** what happens to all the existing hoses** like the one from the bottom of the air cleaner on 308 gtsi and 4v to the "oil seperator" ??? |