| Author |
Message |
Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
New member
Username: Ferrarifixer
Post Number: 38
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 6:26 am: | |
I've learned from racing our fleet of up to 9 360 challenge and N-GT cars that occasional F1 problems with shifting can be fixed by replacing a certain solenoid valve on the valve block....but is not available as a spare part!!
I learned by process of elimination combined with some expert main dealer assistance. There is a certain value that is readable with the SD2. If you are off this value your problems are on their way! The value is not mentioned in any manuals.
The solenoid valve is however the same as the other marques ones. Be careful as there are a few different types of solenoid fitted to the valve block, despite appearances. The one particular valve has since been proved to improve shifting on cars even where no fault was apparent.
Most don't sell the valve as a spare part either...but after much effort I've found a source that will do......costs about 2 sheckles Aussie plus a few hours to change and SD2 set up etc.
You could fly me from Melbourne economy class to wherever your car is, I'd fix it in less than one day at your garage at home, and it'd cost you less than half a new actuator system, job done including parts flights and accomodation!.... |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 24
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 5:30 am: | |
My point is this.
There are many individuals who aspire to own these vehicles ( as did I for many years) who are simply not aware of the very poor longevity of many of the parts.
For example, if i would have known that I would spend �17,000 for 5k of motoring on a 14K mid 99 car I would NEVER have acquired it.
If everyone made a stand regarding certain issues it would make a difference. Im planning some national press regarding this experience which, if nothing else will serve as a warning to the unwary!
|
Salman Hussain (Arezzo)
New member
Username: Arezzo
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 12:11 am: | |
Agree with Stephen
I was at my Ferrari dealers yesterday and in the service area saw this beautiful 99 355 that was all opened up and when I asked about it from the mechanics there they said it has the same problem as Steph and the owner (I think he's around 24 or 25) has basically left his car there for the past two weeks without any answer to the mechanics on whether he wants to go for the new hydraulic pump.Its just too expensive if you ask me.
But then again I think someone is gonna get a really sweet deal on it soon. In Q8 its very common that if the repair bill is too big and the guy cant afford it then he'll sell it to one of his friends, friends friend or relative for a really low price. Sad but true.... |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 23
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 3:58 pm: | |
well im delighted you guys have had no problems and are enjoying what is a great car.
The issue is however, if you woke up tommorow and your hit with a bill for $14,000 for a new pump would you find that acceptable??
My point is that it should be engineered to last well say 60,000 kms?? thats reasonable isnt it?
And this is my no means an uncommon failure |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member
Username: Willis360
Post Number: 1430
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 2:38 pm: | |
I've driven over 20K miles on my '01 360 before the actuator locked up. Car's been a pretty reliable year 'round driver up to this point. Other than the actuator, everything else checked out fine according to the dealer. |
Michael Klein (Malibumk)
Junior Member
Username: Malibumk
Post Number: 83
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 2:14 pm: | |
I've got a '98 355F1 with 26k miles on it, and without a single fault ever...just another data point. |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 14
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 2:22 pm: | |
well billy bob!! you are right. I will have to pay but in the UK with the ending of block exemption and new better models from Aston and Lambo things are changing.
I was considering a 360 purchase I dont think I will bother now! that one customer less anyway! |
J Haller (Jh355)
Junior Member
Username: Jh355
Post Number: 58
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 12:26 pm: | |
Hi Willis
Didn�t know you were lurking in the F chat out back? Isn�t the actuator the clutch slave cylinder rod or part thereof? Be interested in looking at the part removed for personal evaluation. Wonder if Doug would be up for that?
May not respond until Sunday, We are leaving for Ocean Shores in about 30 min.
JH
|
Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member
Username: Willis360
Post Number: 1427
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:16 am: | |
John,
As it turned out, it was the F1 actuator that went bad. Parts are on back order so it will be a while. |
J Haller (Jh355)
Junior Member
Username: Jh355
Post Number: 57
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:00 am: | |
Hans
Fortunately for me all my cars have been 6spds, couldn�t get use to the F1 (wanted to slam gears not play Nintendo). What started me thinking about this problem is a guy in our club just had his 360 F1 seize up this last weekend up in the mountains. Stopped to eat lunch one hour later BAM F1 will not shift. Looked to me as if the clutch slave cylinder had frozen because the pump was working and the lines flexed when attempting to shift. Cylinders are Cylinders the braking system uses similar components and they are under tremendous heat conditions, so you would think Ferrari could get the clutch right as well?
Without having ever taken on apart;
1) My guess is they are not using the right metal on one of the two components.
2) There isn�t enough throw to keep the cylinder lined up and when extended, freezes up.
3) The seal isn�t the proper temperature rating, and deteriorates or starts to melt and freezes up the cylinder.
These conditions can be solved relatively easily. There are Tetrafluor, Teflon and silicon seals for extreme heat conditions. I�m guessing the cylinder is Aluminum; you could use a honed steel or SS cylinder instead, solving the dissimilar metal problem, and use a rod seal in combination with a piston wear ring to keep the shafting off the wall. Unfortunately most of the F1 systems are still under warranty and the old parts are just sent back to the factory or thrown away, it�s unlikely someone will volunteer to send a cylinder in for engineering revision.
OFFER, if someone will send the F1 clutch cylinder to me, I will have our engineering department look it over for evaluation.
JH
|
Paul Hill (348paul)
Member
Username: 348paul
Post Number: 349
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:09 am: | |
Stephen
I sent a message though f-chat - can you send me a blank email to [email protected] and I will forward it to you.
Thanks
Paul |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 13
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 6:30 am: | |
hi paul
no I did not have any mail at all |
Paul Hill (348paul)
Member
Username: 348paul
Post Number: 348
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 6:16 am: | |
Stephen,
Did you get the email I sent you?
Paul |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 3:45 am: | |
Joseph,
Ferrari UK say 'they sell a lot of them' so that indicates the reliability of these things.
I really wanted to try and be a ferrari User not keep it in the garage but there we go.
There are no symptoms, it just packed up.
They are a great car and I love the F1 but when I see one on the raod now I just think boy he is sitting on a timebomb!!
One thing for sure if your sick of being a millionaire- buy one of these and you wont be one for long!!! |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1614
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 1:26 am: | |
Mr. "J":
Maybe you should look into making valves/actuators? It would be a *very* small volume item, but the customers would be willing to pay big bucks for a quality replacement. |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 310
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 12:52 am: | |
Why fix a problem when owners are willing to pay. Unfortunately, S. Winter may not be happy but he will pay. The mystic of Ferrari will live on and the neighbor kids will OOO and AHHH! The sounds and feel is incredible. You just can't get that in a Porsche and Ferrari knows it. So we dumb onwers pay... Remember if it starts with "F" (Ferrari,Floats, Flys, Fu*Ks) it is cheaper to rent it. |
J Haller (Jh355)
Junior Member
Username: Jh355
Post Number: 56
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 12:37 am: | |
Enclosed Hydraulic systems today should be more reliable than what I have seen with the Ferrari F1 system. Our company builds high pressure zero leak hydraulic systems and they literally cycle hundreds of thousands of times without failure. Is it possible the immense heat in the rear compartment may contribute more than anticipated to the wear or failure of these components? Ferrari obviously knows they have a problem, but unlikely they will fix the problems. I�m sure that most if not all the replacement parts have been built, which would require them to throw the old ones away, unlikely. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 11:49 pm: | |
Joseph: My advice would be to SELL your F1 ASAP, while it still works, and the prices of the car are still up there.
Buy a 6-speed manual one !!!!!!!!! |
Joseph Caretti (Pino)
Junior Member
Username: Pino
Post Number: 166
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 9:25 pm: | |
Stephen, I have to admit as a fellow 355 F1 owner, you have me shaking in my boots!
What are the symptoms with your car?
And when people say "known to fail", at what rate are they speaking? Known to fail like the manifolds cracking, or is it something more obscure?
For sure, that is a lot of money, no matter which currency you state it in, or what income bracket you are of a member.
I wish you well in your search for an alternative!
Please let us know how you make out.
Best regards,
Pino |
Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 1003
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 6:49 pm: | |
WOW!!!!!!!!!
I think I will stay with the "older" Ferraris. I can't help but to read one after another post on something failing with the F1 system. Imagine what this will do to the prices for these type of cars, say, 5-6 years down the road.
At these prices, I would think one could do better by just having the parts machined......possible? |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 9
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 4:52 pm: | |
well it is the whole unit.
I have owned the car purchased from a ferrari dealer for 18 months and done 5K miles
I knew when i aquired it that the ownership costs would be high and indeed I have not been dissapointed in that respect.
Im my 18 months of ownership the costs have been as follows for 5K of motoring ( not on a track)
cambelt service �2700
annual service � 950
manifolds replaced �4,900
exhaust bypass vavle �785
and now this �8000!!
That makes the total additional cost for repairs at �17,300 this is obscene.
I accept the high servicing costs, what I cant accept is 'oh yes this is a fault that happens quite often and its �8,0000 tuff!
Why does not Ferrari acept some responsibility. Im not poor but to bankrole Ferrari in this way is a disgrace
|
Malcolm West (Ferrari_uk_tech)
New member
Username: Ferrari_uk_tech
Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 8:46 am: | |
Unfortunately they have been known to fail and they do cost �8000, however the actuator fails more than the hydraulic unit and this costs about �2800.
I have no knowledge of the hydraulic units being successfully repaired.
How have you diagnosed that the hydraulic unit is the fault. I would strongly recommend that the car is tested with the Ferrari SD2 tester - this will give an exact picture of the entire F1 system and will print out all faults stored in the TCU (transmission control unit) |
stephen winter (355f)
New member
Username: 355f
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 6:11 am: | |
Has anyone had one of these fail? can they be repaired? ive been quoted �8000 from ferrari UK!!! |