| Author | Message | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 313 Registered: 8-2002 |
To Joe cont...I got side tracked. To remove the clutch shaft with the torch thing you have two choices. 1- use a huge slide hammer and yank the sucker out galling the aluminium gearbox case with the steel reatiner of the clutch shaft. 2- heat with a torch (the FNA way) to expand the aluminium thereby using less force with smaller slide hammers and not galling the aluminium GB case. How do you like the clutch shalft holder? I made that to attach to my slide hammers. That is not FNA...see you don't need special tools. I cut shims of 1/8" plate to hold gear sets while gears are pressed off the shafts...no special tools. I saw the special Ferrari tool for the pinion preloading. I measured the diameter of the circle did some math calculatd some forces and bypassed that special tool too. I also adjust timing belts by hand. We have had this discussion before but next time you go to your maechanic as him to show you his FNA tensiometer for the belts. I bet he does not have one. I have never seen one at any FNA shop and I know no independant who has one either. This device for adjusting belts is more rare than the famous SD-1 tester! | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 312 Registered: 8-2002 |
Joe, I learned those techniques and specifically that propane torch technique which is actually MAPP gas propane is not hot enough, from 3 personal friends who are Ferrari mechanics. 2 are FNA and 1 was the chief at Lyle Tanners in the 80's. I did not make this stuff up. A ferrari is a car. I have many miles on my rebuilt tranny and I race my car. | ||
| The Don (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6311 Registered: 8-2002 |
I can honestly say I know more about the 348 clutches and transmissions then I care to. At least now I know I can change a clutch on a 348 and I know the correct way to bleed the system. | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1105 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ernie, seriously, it was THE call to have billybob help me out on this one! It was so much fun to take the whole thing apart (wouldn't recommend it though, unless you had some prior experience for doing this!) Craig - I wish I could say I did it all myself with some help! To be honest, it was more like billybob did this all himself, with my help! Matt was a great help, too! Joe, thanks... I know what you mean... but I had that expectation going into this, so when when asked if I was nervous about anything, I simply replied "No way!"  It was fun, though. I'm glad we did this ourselves. Money saved or not, it was quite the experience. | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 773 Registered: 11-2001 |
Right On!!!! Great pics Byron. I also have to say that Billy Bob is the man. He has helped me out quite a bit with technical advice on my 30k project. At which I am at the half way point, now because I haven't ponied up the money yet to get an air compressor and impact wrench. Anyway, Byron having Billy Bob help you with the trany was a smart call. The best thing about getting your hands dirty with your own car is that you learn it, and you are not afraid of it. Billy Bob, awesome work brother, and you too Matt. | ||
| joe under (Undertaker)
New member Username: Undertaker Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2003 |
Glad to hear you got whatever was wrong corrected. Maybe saved some bucks too. I have to admit I cring when I see hammers, propane torches and Big O cresent wrenches being used. Ouch ! I just hope my dealer mechanic ain't doing that considering what I have to pay them to keep my f355 runnin. Hopefully you got your problem solved though. Best. | ||
| Craig (Beachbum)
Junior Member Username: Beachbum Post Number: 164 Registered: 9-2002 |
hey billy bob, havent seen you in a while, good to see you back byron, tough job and you did it yourself, with a little help from friends, thats awsome, congrats on a job well done, hows the car shifting, be patient, it takes a few miles to brake in a fresh trans rebuild, mine was rebuilt right befor a bought the car, the more i drive it the better it shifts | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 311 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have about 15 hammers of all types. Those hammers and an impact wrench are absoultely mandatory if you work on cars. Hammers are not to wack things. You can abuse a hammer and a screwdriver just as easily. If what you see scares you then you would not what to see how the gearbox is disassembled! That takes presses and hammers! You need to know things like metal propertys. For example when you have a nut on an aluminium boss, such as the oil tank, you have the choice of constant pressure over a unit of time or a quick torque over a shorter unit of time. The latter is absoulutely less energy into the oil tank and less overall force. It is about "feel" just like how an oral surgeon would remove your wisdom teeth...a few quick raps with a mallet on a chisel. There are some who just should not use a hammer. With proper use of tools you can do a whole job like this one and never scrape a knuckle or break a fastener because you control the force. As a sidenote, I want to thank Matt too because he put in a lot of sweat helpping me put the car back together. Matt and I worked harder putting the Gearbox back in the car and all the junk around it than the effort it took to actually rebuild the box. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 509 Registered: 4-2003 |
Using a hammer or mallet on the crecent wrench: A cheater pipe fitted over an open end (or line wrench) would be a little more appropiate. Besides if you are going to do the old hammer mechanic trick, shouldn't the wrench face the other direction (angled towards the rotational direction)?? Sorry, couldn't help it. Glad to hear she is back and running. | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 459 Registered: 8-2002 |
You guys ROCK!!! Holy cow, that looks like a crazy job to do!! Byron, I guess you sleep better at night knowing you've got the ultimate pit crew!!! | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2003 |
Byron; I was also expecting a picture of scraping the gasket surfaces with an hacksaw!!!! Juct kidding Carl. Rob | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1069 Registered: 10-2002 |
Reiner, I have Bosch 2.5, but challenge ECU's, to my knowledge. The car runs rich (and for that reason, quite cool). I would love to see your car sometime... we could do some nice comparison. Hold your ears though... It's loud! And yes, Rob, I wouldn't use a hammer either... to carl's defense, it was a mallet, and it was my oil line that we were trying to knock loose from my sump... that was really the only occasion we did that...it was just so funny to watch that I HAD to get it on camera! haha...sorry, carl! | ||
| Reiner Kaiser (Reinerkaiser)
Junior Member Username: Reinerkaiser Post Number: 99 Registered: 2-2001 |
Byron, I think I can't get the full horse power increase with the challenge exhaust if I don't go to the '94 spyder chips!!! Do you have stock motronic chips in your car? Someone on the list came forward and promised to burn me a set, but I guess that never happened... As soon as I have time, I want to get a burner and get started with that. BTW, regarding the hammer/crescent wrench thing, I guess it's ok to do that for really large nut sizes that are not cranked on very strongly (such as the oil hose fitting on the dry sump... | ||
| rob guess (Beast)
Junior Member Username: Beast Post Number: 143 Registered: 5-2003 |
Byron; I just hope none of my students see the picture of hitting the crecent wrench with the hammer!!! Other than that great pictures glad to hear you got back up and running. Rob | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1064 Registered: 10-2002 |
Todd, Do a search - or check this thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/252357.html?1058626442 Sounds like a flywheel repacking issue - mine was. | ||
| todd montandon (Sllade)
Junior Member Username: Sllade Post Number: 198 Registered: 7-2003 |
ok guys the hot start problem its not good is it the flywheel or fuel i talked to several mechs they said there is no way its a flywheel problem its mor than likely a fuel deal we need to fix this problem its really a pain in the ass.Todd | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1063 Registered: 10-2002 |
haha... reiner...that's funny. Carl tells me you have a challenge exhaust setup on your car as well. It would be interesting to dyno mine against yours to see the differences/similarities in powerband! | ||
| Reiner Kaiser (Reinerkaiser)
Junior Member Username: Reinerkaiser Post Number: 98 Registered: 2-2001 |
yeah, but Carl only helps people with red 348's!!! :> | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 6236 Registered: 8-2002 |
Byron, You have mail | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1061 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oh no, Lou... the mastermind behind all this was Carl!! I just do what I'm told! And the re-installation was, truth-be-told, all Carl and Matt. I was totally out-of-pocket on that one. | ||
| lou staller (Lou_staller)
Junior Member Username: Lou_staller Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2002 |
Byron, Congrats on your rebuild! I now know who I'll call when I need help! First Dom's brake pads, now your gearbox. I'm thinking that when I begin the tear down of my 308 engine/trans I'll need some help, or at least moral support! You guys took on a MAJOR project! Besides saving a ton of $$ you guys should be proud with what you've accomplished! Don't go to far away, I'm going to call you one day! | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1060 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks for the nice comments, guys... The cause, well... as any former challenge car, the tranny took some abuse. Opening up the box, the funny thing was that only the pinion gear was stripped. Even its matching gear was in good shape! However, all the teeth had made its way into all sorts of places, causing shift failure. The parts list for the tranny included the following: 121813 clutch flange oring 137249 input shaft seal 131736 int case oring 146186 insp plate gask 153002 ms ring nut 131775 ms ring nut 105137 pin ring nut 138745 pinion gear bevel set 131016 pin bearing 131015 pin bearing 153000 ls ring nut 153002 ls ring nut 121717 T/O housing springs 149774 outer bearing driver 108656 outer bearing passenger 105140 shifter oring 131886 shifter gasket 153009 clutch shft ringnut 131054 clutch shaft bearing 131651 clutch shaft oilring Didn't replace all the bearings... some of them looked fine. Synchros were left in tact as well. Might still need to experiment with some different gear oils (she's got 75W-90 Mobil1 Synthetic Right now). Carl told me there were metal shavings everywhere!! The gear had to all be cleaned out individually in 10W-30 motor oil... | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1467 Registered: 5-2001 |
Okay, you guys rock! That looks like a hell of a job! Great work to get her back up and running. I see the mangled gears, what was the cause and ultimate repair needed? Dave | ||
| Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member Username: Dom Post Number: 359 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wow, amazing pics. I'm glad she's running again. Dom | ||
| Mister Jones (Davey_jones)
Junior Member Username: Davey_jones Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2002 |
Awesome job!!! I'll save a couple of these pics if you don't mind! Why are those cats still on there? dave ** drive it till it breaks! | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 5542 Registered: 5-2001 |
nice job guys! I am not sure if I ever met that Bill fellow you are referring to Byron | ||
| Byron (Bmyth)
Intermediate Member Username: Bmyth Post Number: 1058 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hey everyone, I just had the repair completed of the gearbox/tranny for my 348 Challenge. A few weeks ago, I noticed a clicking sound in the box after my flywheel was repacked... it wasn't long before I found myself stuck on the side of the freeway!! Thankfully, Matt and Jean-Louis were there to save the day and pretty soon, I was towed to the shop. However, after carefully weighing the situation, we just figured it was a better approach to perform a teardown and possible repair rather than doing a full tranny sway. A very special thanks goes out to Carl,who graciously helped me through the entire effort!! The effort took a few weeks, most of which were after-work hours time meticulously and tediously spent by Carl... but now she's back on the road where she belongs!! (Martin, I'll send you the bill!!! ) Also, if it wasn't for a few other people, I would still be car-less... Matt, JL, Julie, and Sunny - thanks so much for your help with all of this... I am indebted to you guys in so many ways! I am posting the pictures of the teardown. Carl has a great set-up in his garage... the teardown took rough a whole afternoon (most of which was setting up the car for the lift!...haha...j/k) We pulled out all the stops on this one... we even tried out a few of Carl's special homemade tools! What a guy! Anyways, there were so many steps that I don't think I can even begin to decipher all of them... I am just going to post the pictures in order - hopefully, this will give you all a good visual of the "innards" of my 348. It turns out (after visual inspection) that my one of my bevel gears had lost many of its teeth... with bits and pieces of gear everywhere!! Well, thanks to the laborious efforts of many, it's all clean and she's breaking in nicely. THANK YOU SO MUCH, GUYS!! *WARNING: THE FOLLOWING MAY NOT BE SUITABLE TO THOSE WITH SENSITIVE STOMACHS... * First the breakdown... Rob, notice Matt's cool shirt!!       And then the teardown:                                                |