| Author | Message | ||
| Richanton (Richanton)
New member Username: Richanton Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2003 |
I just got off the phone with the bodyshop. They have already started working on the car, and it seems to be going well. The damaged panels have been straightened, and now they are working on the filler. The filler had cracked in some of the body panels that were not damaged in the crash. My guy thinks they may be the result of previous repairs. He is going to repair those areas as best he can, but he does not think we should strip all of the filler off the car. He seems to think this would just be opening a can of worms, and we can make the car look just as good by stripping the paint, repairing and prepping the existing filler, and painting over. I am still trying to locate some of the parts, but hopefully I will have them all soon. He is going to strip the entire car of all trim, emblems, windows, etc. before he preps it for paint. I am still just a little nervous because he has never painted a Ferrari before, and the car just looks like a nightmare to prep and paint. I am considering having him repair and strip the car, and then taking the car to an experienced Ferrari guy for prep, paint and reassembly. | ||
| Brian W (Jetx)
Junior Member Username: Jetx Post Number: 86 Registered: 6-2003 |
How about changing the color. Say you have a <insert> and want a different color. While that may be unthinkable on a Ferrari, I've thought of doing this to my Mondial T. I have a black one, and when it needs a repaint (not yet), I'm strongly leaning towards changing the color. I doubt anyone is going to miss a run of the mill black car (or red). I know I know, "you'll destroy the value" but think about it, it's not worth mega $$$ and never will be, so why not. Just a shame as if you look through all the colors Ferrari offered on many of their cars, the mass majority all seemed to be red/black and a sprinkling of white/silver. With the 355 and newer, seems cars run the color gamut more consistently. In case you're wondering, I wanted to go with either a tour-de-france blue or verde mugello | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 865 Registered: 2-2002 |
Hans, I have seen a couple of cars that were either in the process of being media blasted or already done and 1 that was painted using the process. The body guy I talked said that he could get the entire car blasted for about 500-600 bucks. For that kind of money and the quality that came out of it was well worth it. Although doing that to an aluminum is something I don't know about and can't comment on. Pat | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 559 Registered: 4-2003 |
Chemical stripping is the way to go. FYI, if they hit body filler (Bondo) which they often do, expect more $$ | ||
| David P. Smith (Dave330gtc)
Junior Member Username: Dave330gtc Post Number: 153 Registered: 3-2002 |
My car was chemically stripped. It is a slow, messy job but the results were worth it. I would recommend it. It was done on both the steel and aluminum panels.  | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1656 Registered: 4-2002 |
Question on stripping: Most of you are recommending sanding or chemical stripping. What about media blasting? Comments on choice of plastic, walnut shells, soda or ? A friend soda blasted an antique Chevy, and it turned out great. Don't have to remove glass. I've heard that some types of media are not good for aluminum, but some are. What is truly amazing is that lots of body shops have never heard of this. | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 107 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks, Mike & Richanton - the shop is located in Upstate New York if you're in this part of the country - I would highly recommend him....he does take the time to do it right....if you're not, again good luck in your search... | ||
| Richanton (Richanton)
New member Username: Richanton Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2003 |
Neil, I had actually already found that article using the search, and found it very informative. I imagine it must be difficult to find a shop that will pay that much attention to detail. That is pretty much what I want to do to my car.Your car looks fantastic. | ||
| Michael Stanton (Pentastar)
New member Username: Pentastar Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2003 |
Neil, what a super article. Really informative. The car looks just great! | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 106 Registered: 2-2001 |
Richanton, I went through a complete repaint on my 308 this past Winter, down to the bare metal. Attached is the paint shop's write-up on the entire process - excellent reading for what you are considering. The cost was $10.5K, but well worth it in my mind - the car looks great..I had crazing all over the car from the original lacquer paint, and got tired of looking at it...a complete strip was required..good luck in your decision... http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/Ferrari.html | ||
| Richanton (Richanton)
New member Username: Richanton Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2003 |
The whole reason I am going to strip and repaint is because the car is damaged. I am going to be replacing some body panels as well as repairing the front fender. I just don't think it would be possible to make the car look good if some panels have factory filler and some do not. The whole objective is to make the car look consistent. I am seriously considering bringing the car to another body shop, one with F-car experience. The guy who gave me the estimate (although he is a good bodyman) thought the filler is the result of a previous shoddy repair, he had no idea it is factory. The fact that the car is not worth much really has nothing to do with the repaint. I plan on keeping the car, and I want it to look good. After all, it is still a Ferrari. It kills me when I see guys driving a Ferrari with a poor repaint (I am not talking about the original look, I am talking about an obviously cheap repaint with runs, excessive orange peel, uneven coloring, etc.). A Ferrari is an eccentric automobile, and to repaint one correctly requires a lot of labor. I am sure a total strip to metal is not always neccesary, but unfortunately in my case it probably is. I guess my point is that I have already realized it will cost me a lot to bring the car back, and I just have to deal with it. Although I am prepared to spend, I do not want to go crazy or get screwed. I would appreciate any tips from guys with restoration or repaint experience. Also, I am still open to suggestions for another shop that would be able to handle the repair and repaint. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 540 Registered: 4-2003 |
That was my point: I think the ultimate objective is to get it back to the original condition. Some where in between a show car and a earl Scheib. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 382 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hans, that gets back to that preservation question that Forza magazine wrote about (though I can't see driving around a real shaby looking car for the sake of originality)...The way I see it part, of the hand built charm of my 78 308 is the wavey body and sand scratches that can be seen through its mostly original paint...Early Ferraris don't look good (or original) with the new super wet looking paints...when the time comes for a repaint...I'm going to sand down to the primer and lay down some more black lacquer...yes, it is more labor intense and some will say that lacquer is inferior...but I want it to look like it did in 78. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 358 Registered: 8-2002 |
If the underlying filler is good why risk putting new on? I would think you have more of a chance of a future failure of new filler vs the old that has proven itself over time. Years ago when I had my 911 painted the shop showed me even new POrsche panels required a lot of new filler, the best panels that required very little were Honda parts | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1652 Registered: 4-2002 |
Peter: After a drought of local F-Stuff, my calender is thankfully full. So, I doubt I can make it. I'm doing Monterey, the Ron Tonkin track day, and Sun River, with possibly some local stuff making up the middle weeks. Believe it or not, but a GT4 is a celebrity in small towns. Hell, I thought it was just a maintenance headache. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2992 Registered: 12-2000 |
Hey, I'm not complaining. It looks good, but not perfect. Your car is in far superior shape than mine... BTW, are you coming up to Seattle for the Concours show? Its on Aug 31st. Bring yours up. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1651 Registered: 4-2002 |
Uh, Peter, your car doesn't look that bad. I liked it. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1650 Registered: 4-2002 |
PS: The body panels on my GT4 (still with original paint) are absolutely pathetic. I mean, really bad. Imagine not 'orange peel', but more like 'grapefruit peel'. It looks like they took a ball-peen hammer to the metal before painting. Plus, in areas, you can see really bad grinder marks where panels were welded together. To what degree should this bad factory body work be corrected? A 'proper' paint job would smooth this stuff out. Concours Correct would leave it as-is. What should an owner do for a simple paint job? Bad or good? (This is, in part, a rhetorical question!) | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2991 Registered: 12-2000 |
Like with my car Hans. P.O. had a paint job done, couple of Grand Canadian (so not much in U.S. bucks). Looks nice from about five feet away, but up close, you see drip marks along the horizontal body line, it looks kind-of thin along the scuttle, overspray around the window trim/rubber, etc... Not to mention all of the nicks, chips, scratches, swirl marks and the two "fender-benders" I've had. Yeah, a nice shabby GT4...  | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1649 Registered: 4-2002 |
P. Thomas: <g> Yes, you're right! But is it real smart to put $10K into a $20K car? I think you can do a good 'stand-off' paint job for much less. If I were doing a Daytona, I'd do it right. But on a GT4, I think I'll go with a paint job that you have to walk up 'close and personal' to see that it wasn't perfectly done. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 538 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hey, I have seen "Miracle" paint jobs on newer Corvettes and 20K paint jobs on a 1970 Impala. Your car your choice. I am totally indifferent. I agree, as a percentage how much do you want to sink into it? But really, how do you want it to look as you have to see it everyday. Just my .02 | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1646 Registered: 4-2002 |
PS: Verell: Did you get my email regarding switch parts? | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1645 Registered: 4-2002 |
P. Thomas: I think "Ferrari fanatic" isn't too far from the truth! No, not being critical, as you have a VERY valid viewpoint. I'm not arguing. But for a 'cheap' Ferrari, we're trying to find a 'cheap' alternative. A less-than-perfect respray may be easily recognizable to you, but for the money, it is probably acceptable for many of us. Verell: I think you are on the right track. In particular, overspray is preventable, as most such parts (door handles, lights, emblems, etc.) are easily removeable. The owner can do this, even if you are mechanically challenged like I am. Simple, but very time consuming. Remove the 'stuff', scuff, mask, spray. If the owner is involved in doing the simpler, but more labor intensive stuff, it, hopefully, shouldn't be real bad. I hope. Also, remember, that the factory didn't do a real decent job of body prep. My old 'GT4 has very wavy panels. A decent paint job would smooth out these things, but would this be authentic? It would probably LOOK better, but is it better than stock? Err, bad question, as it WOULD be better than stock. But is it necessary? Should a repaint be better than original? I think a rattle can could duplicate the OEM paint job. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1047 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think $10K-$15K is about right.......but this is ONLY for a SHOW car. I had the hood, fenders, front bumper, and spoiler (also fixed), painted by a local no-name body shop for $950!!!!!!!...this was for a TR. That was 3 years ago, and the car still looks great. They only had to sand the paint, and not go into the primer........I was told that if the primer is good, then leave it alone. Why pay big money for a car that you are going to drive.......Oh, I forgot......most of you people don't drive your cars!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 531 Registered: 4-2003 |
If they are going to chemical strip, which they often do, then stopping at the primer will only be a nominal savings. I guess if they are sanding they could stop at the primer but again for the small amount of savings. Is it worth it?? Again, you get exactly what you pay for. Take (or get a professional opinion) on your current paint condition. Then LOOK VERY closely (stare) from many different angles at paint jobs that the body shop has completed. Do you see "fish eyes" (caused by impurities like oil). Do you want to live with some orange peel (ALL production cars have at least some orange peel), or do you want a show car quality (overkill IMHO). Communicate CLEARLY what you want. Hey, it is your car. It is your money, and your the one that needs to look at it everyday. Taking an assesment of where you are now and what you what the final objective to be are really the critical steps. To many laypeople the paint quality all looks the same. You can even ask a body shop to point out suttle differences. Once you know what to look for it literally sticks out like a sore thumb. I can spot ANY repaint pretty quickly. Top, top notch body shops have had to do a couple of resprays for me. I was very clear as to my expectations and when I pointed out various flaws, they immeediately agreed (most people would never be able to notice). Best of luck. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1548 Registered: 5-2001 |
Verell, That reminds me, it's the "filler" or "substrate" that fails on early 308's, not the primer per say. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member Username: Verell Post Number: 1062 Registered: 5-2001 |
I concur with the posts starting with Dom's post #368. MY $0.02: IF the paint is pretty rough, then strip down to the primer. If the primer is in good shape (& it often is). Then mask & repaint from the primer up. IF the primer has failed also (If you have checking it usally has), THEN your choices are live with it or strip at least thru the primer. You may be able to salvage the original filler, which in itself represents a big savings. Best case is that the paint is basicly sound, but has deteriorated enough so that it's appearance is suffering. A thorough sanding & then mask & respray is a reasonable way to go. If you want my $0.05 opinion, search the archives for this spring. re: OVERSPRAY - That's a sign of incompetent & incomplete masking, pure & simple. Done properly, with emblems removed, or even just properly masked, you can't tell whether it was a full repaint or a mask & spray. Even masking errors such as tape lines can be cleaned up/removed so they're undetectable. But then, it's your $$$. If you go the full repaint, some future owner will probably love the bargain he got! | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 530 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bare metal stripping is done for one reason and one reason ONLY. If your current paint is highly oxidized or "checked" the new paint will shrink and you will have the exact same paint job (just SLIGHTLY more shiny) within 1-2 years guarenteed. If your current paint is "wasted" there really is no way around it. You get what you pay for. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1643 Registered: 4-2002 |
I'm at a total loss here, also, as to why the car needs to go to bare metal and have all the wavy panels fixed. The factory sprayed over wavy panels, so wouldn't that be an authentic way to do it? As for overspray, many of the pieces that would get overspray (lights, mirrors, chrome, etc.) are fairly easy to remove. It would seem that you could take off all the bits and pieces, mask the rest, scuff it up, and SPRAY! Or am I all wet? | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1545 Registered: 5-2001 |
Agreed Paul, I quicker "scratch and shoot" without a complete strip would be entirely reasonable....the only caution, is that the early 308's (up until 80 or 81) had the bad primer that caused the paint to crack and craze. Very common. My 78 had been repainted by the previous owner, and it was NOT stripped to bare metal, but everything was taken off the car, as there were absolutely no traces of overspray anywhere. It must have cost a ton, but the car was purchased in the late 80's at the height of the price craze ($60k purchase receipt for the car in the folder!). But the primer never caused a problem while I had the car (lucky me). I wonder if the extra coats of paint helped any? The car had no rust bubbles on the doors either. Of course, prior to my ownership the car was a "garage queen" with only 15k miles. | ||
| Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member Username: Dom Post Number: 369 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dave, I see your point about the overspray. However, if you did some prep work, disassembly (removing bumpers, badges, etc.), beforehand (because for $400, I'm guessing MAACO isn't doing much), you could probably get a decent job. Also, my understanding is that overspray on plastic bits can be removed if it is fairly fresh (couple of weeks?) with a claybar. Just a thought. Dom | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 381 Registered: 7-2002 |
shops that do insurance work and dealer probably aren't the place to be taking any car for a strip and repaint...these are volume places that are the fast-food autobody shops... I feel as Don does...10k is a lot of money to invest in a paint job for a car that is worth 20-25k...stripping it to metal while great in theory isn't always recommended due to the crazy amount of bondo the factory uses (why disturb it).... In so far as places on the East Coast...as stated earlier Pirone at Berlinetta does great work as does Classic Coach in NJ....but you are looking at 10 to 12k easy for a total strip. There are lots of options between the $500 maaco job and the 12k pebble beach one...I would also check into other shops that do work on euro cars...you could probably get a very high quality job done for $5k...though probably not a strip to metal (which is ok in my opinion) | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1542 Registered: 5-2001 |
Probably realistic, but it just looks so tacky and "unpresentable" in my book to have overspray all over the trim, side marker lights, bumpers, etc...See it all the time on 308's that have either been repainted or repaired. | ||
| Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Member Username: Dom Post Number: 368 Registered: 11-2002 |
If your car is a driver- do you really need a bare metal repaint? This is going to sound heretical, but: I used to have an Alfa spider that the PO had repainted at MAACO. Cost something like $400 (I had the receipt). It looked pretty damn good. NOT show car quality, but good nonetheless. I always had people comment at how nice my car looked. Is this sacriledge for a ferrari that is driven, and not shown? I mean after all, if you are driving your car, the paint is just going to get worn over time anyway. Also, with 308's being valued in the $20-30k range, does it make sense to spend $10,000 on a paint job if it is not a show car. Dom (am I realistic, or just CHEAP?) | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 357 Registered: 8-2002 |
Price will also be determined on how much you are going to take apart on the car such as the glass out,doors,hood etc off add a few thousand more | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1540 Registered: 5-2001 |
Richanton, Becareful it they have never done a Ferrari before..esp a 308. There area a LOT of weird stuff on these cars that will create lot's of extra labor, many already mentioned, like the wavy panels. I have two friends have their cars repainted (308 and 328) and I don't see how you can get a factory looking repaint for less than 8-9k minimum, from an experienced and reputable shop. Expect it to probably be closer to 10k with add-ons (hidden damage, rust, etc.). This assumes removing all doors, hood, engine lid, lights, bumpers, and all trim. No "Earl Shibe" "masking tape" special. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member Username: Verell Post Number: 1057 Registered: 5-2001 |
BTW, F&MoNE send their body & suspension work to Hatch&Sons. You can negotiate with their body shop for the quality of the work. 'Exotic Car Restoration quality' is billed hourly at a much higher rate than competetive body shop quality. Bob Hatch is well known in NE Ferrari circles, races a 355 Challenge, sells a lot of Ferraris. He & a couple of employees brought 2 308s & a 328 to the Museum of Transportation Tuttio Italiano. The 328 took best of it's class. He was just showing the other 2, didn't feel they were ready for judging. IMHO, they were the best 2 308s there, by a wide margin. NASHUA,NH The manager for Nashua Lincoln-Mercury is a classic car buff. A couple of his Mustangs have taken show honors. He will do the kind of work you want, but you have to let him take time as he has to fit it in & around seasonal fender benders, etc. I've also heard a couple of good reports about 'Fine Lines' in Milford,NH. | ||
| peter james moran (Pjm)
Junior Member Username: Pjm Post Number: 63 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hey Rich, Total for repaint on mine was over $10K. I won't go into details but I had a lot of work done. I wrecked mine and there was another $12K in parts and labor for repairs. The one thing you will be surprised is these are not very straight cars from the factory. If you want a perfectly straight car you will add many, many hours one to the total. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1562 Registered: 11-2001 |
don't know where "northeast" is for you, but Hatch and Sons in Wayland MA has an extremely reputable (and pricey, from my pokings) body and paint shop. they handle a lot of f-cars (as well as p-cars and benz's). they've done a ton of new lambo work too, apparently, including that impossible pearlescent stuff on the murcies. doody. | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 265 Registered: 4-2002 |
Rich, Doug Perrone at Berlinetta Motor Car, outside of NYC did a total strip and repaint to my BB 19 years ago...Even to this day, the paint looks outstanding...Great guy to deal with, and a whole lot of Ferrari experience... His painter, John Kaslinski (sp) opened his own shop in Ronkonkama (sp?)...Can't remember the shops' name. His work, as well...is outstanding. (Picture of car in profile) David | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 517 Registered: 4-2003 |
I would look at some of his work. IMHO, I would want my F-Car to look "Factory" (which quite frankly is nothing to write home about). If they continually wet sand between coats you will end up with a gergeous wet glossy looking finsih. That wet look, would seem to me that it should belong on a show car not an f-Car. Again communication is ULTRA important. Just my .02 | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 857 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've asked about mine when I was having the front spoiler rebuilt, in case I should ever need it. Quote from a top-notch body shop that does do Ferrari work was $12k. | ||
| James I. Movich (77_308gt4)
New member Username: 77_308gt4 Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2003 |
I got an estimate for my 308 GT4 from a guy that specialixes in restorations (mustangs, in this case)of $15K. the guy does incredible work and i looked at multiple examples of his show cars. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 322 Registered: 2-2003 |
seach the archives. Their is a thread which links to a web site which documents a complete respray of a 77GTB on of the F-Chat'rs had done. I think it cost him a ~$10K and he did some of the sanding and stripping with the body shop b/c he knew the owner. The labor involved is incredible. | ||
| Matthew F (Mateotnt)
New member Username: Mateotnt Post Number: 46 Registered: 7-2002 |
Ballpark figure from a guy I know and trust for a 308 repaint with no body damage was $5,000 USD. | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 515 Registered: 4-2003 |
Rich, I have not had my F-car repainted but I have had "completes" done in the past. One word of advice: You get exactly what you pay for. The stripping process is VERY labor intensive. It is done with either a chemical which is aplied to the paint and then scraped off, or with a sander. Either way imagine the time and mess involved with that process alone. The car should be partly disassembled as you do not want ANY tape marks around door locks, windows, etc, etc. Make sure you have a clear understanding of HOW they are going to do the prep work (95% of the paint quality is the prep). Paint is paint, so the fact that it is an F-Car should be a moot point. However, YOU need to decide what you want the ultimate outcome to look like. FYI, 10K for a complete would not seem unreasonable. | ||
| Richanton (Richanton)
New member Username: Richanton Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2003 |
I need some advice from guys who have done a total repaint on their car. I have a 308 with some body damage (passenger door, front spoiler, front grill) and I have decided to have the whole car stripped and repainted. I went to a reputable body shop that I have used before and that is pretty good. I got a quote for just the labor that seems very expensive.The shop has never repaired a Ferrari before, they do mostly insurance jobs and dealer work. So I need some rough estimates as to what guys have paid to have your car stripped and repainted. The car does need some body work, but I will be buying the parts myself and dropping them off at the shop. Has anyone used any body shops in the northeast that they STRONGLY recommend? I really want the car to come out perfect because I plan on keeping it. Time is not really an issue, but I don't want to get raped on the price because as you all know the parts are very expensive. If anyone has had any bad experiences please share those as well so I know what to look out for. I really appreciate the input guys, thanks. |