| Author | Message | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1281 Registered: 12-2001 |
Mike, i wouldnt worry about the loose headbolt issue, Mitchell rebuilt his own engine. After claiming he drove it 4 miles with no oil!? which destroyed it, then rebuilt it himself with a miss matched set of pistons, nearly dropped it because it was suspended from an eye bolt in his ceiling that opened up from the weight. Then, the head gaskets leaked with 0psi before installing the assy and now it pisses oil LOL. I would put the loose headbolt blame on the builder not ferrari. | ||
| A M (Rcd01)
New member Username: Rcd01 Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2003 |
We drove an 1985 308 & a 2002 360 from Norwalk, Ct to San Antonio, Tx. and back. The 308 turned 150k (miles) on the way back. Neither car had any problems even though the drive down was done straight through taking driving turns. The 308 never had anything rebuilt, just on-time maintance and good preventive maintance. Good luck. www.autosalonworld.com | ||
| Henry D. Chin (Hanknum)
Junior Member Username: Hanknum Post Number: 200 Registered: 2-2002 |
I turned 95k on my '78 GTS on the way back from Monterey last weekend. I've never had the heads off nor do I think the PO did. The only real failures I've had are H20 pump and distributors. I installed an Electromotive system about 7 years ago and have not look back since. | ||
| Mike Florio (Mike_in_nevada)
New member Username: Mike_in_nevada Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2003 |
IMHO headgasket retorqueing is really only necessary if you have an aluminum head on a cast iron block. The metals have different coeffecients of expansion and contraction and the relative movement causes gasket failure. Torqueing the head only postpones the failure. I've had 2 cars with the iron/aluminum combination - a Fiat 124 and a BMW 530i and they both ate headgaskets, even with a retorquing regimen of every 10K miles. I've had 2 cars with aluminum/aluminum, my Ferrari 308 and a BMW 850i and neither has had any problem. I also have a 1970 International Harvester Pick-up with a big Iron/Iron V8 and its never had a problem, but I'm not sure the comparison holds. The reports on this thread of loose bolts after a headgasket change do worry me, though. | ||
| steve coleby (Ferraridriver)
Junior Member Username: Ferraridriver Post Number: 113 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hi My mondial T has 73,000 miles on it, and it purrs like a kitten, meooowww Steve | ||
| Darryl - TR&328 (Tr328)
New member Username: Tr328 Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2003 |
You pay if the car sit and don't drive it, you pay if you drive and enjoy the car. I think I rather drive! I had over 100K on my first Ferrari (1979 308) when I sold it and the engine was still running strong when I sold it. | ||
| Hayo (Hayo328)
New member Username: Hayo328 Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2003 |
OK Mitchell, thanks. The special tool is home-made copy after I had borrowed the original tool from the dealer. Its a normal 15 mm ring tool with is cut back to 50 mm length. I welded (90 degrees) a extension to it for fitting a wrench tool. So, you had one loose nut? That means serious investigation of the head-nuts on my 328! Thanks. Hayo. | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 627 Registered: 11-2001 |
On my 2V, a 15mm 6 point socket is all that is required for the retorque. And, it did need to be retorqued 1000 miles after my rebuild. 4 was loose. I am not familiar with a 328 engine so do not know how the special tool works on that. Can you post a pix? All I did was put a wrench on it and torque it to specs. Porsche engines use aluminum heads and block and it is always a good idea to check and retorque the head nuts while the valve covers come off for anything. But, it may be a different design. | ||
| Hayo (Hayo328)
New member Username: Hayo328 Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2003 |
You don't need to remove the cams. Only a special tool is required to get access. The job can be done during ajustment of the valves. I renewed both headgaskets (not mistaken with camcovers). Torque at 10kgm. Have heard that retorqueing depends on the structure of the gasket itselve. Modern gaskets don't need to be retorqued. But for the V-8 i'm still not sure. I wonder how it has to be done: loosen one bolt completly and retorque or just put the tool on and try if it moves? Hayo | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1561 Registered: 5-2001 |
Newman, You may be fine, and may continue to be, but there is definitely an interval of sorts. Your single observation/situation does not mean it is not required. At the very least, any 308/328 that has NOT had it checked in the previous 10-15 years would be wise to have it inspected upon the next time the valve covers come off... I would certainly like to hear from JRV on the subject though, as his opinion I certainly respect a great deal. I believe my mechanic doesn't feel it is "required" either, but does it on every major service he performs on the 308/328/Mondial series. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1243 Registered: 12-2001 |
Im assuming the cams would have to be removed to perform this retorquing? Im not familiar with the bolt location on the QV or 328. You dont have to remove the cams to adjust valves or replace cam seals. Either way, I doubt a retorque is a must. Mine still holds its coolant after 2 years and 13K with high comp pistons. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1557 Registered: 5-2001 |
I would hardly consider it a "money grab"; I mean, during a major service, how much extra time is it going to take? 20-30 minutes? | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1242 Registered: 12-2001 |
I wonder if it is more of a money grab than a requirement. Other aluminum engines of other makes dont require any retorquing at all. I would think the head stud setup is even better at retaing clamping load than the standard bolt arrangment on other makes. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1555 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hayo, Not sure how common it is, but has been documented that if you do not periodically retorque the head bolts, you can have a headgasket failure. Now did you have the head gaskets replaced, or the cam cover gaskets? Two different things. I also don't know if Ferrari specifically recommends retorquing head bolts or not. But as I said before, my 328 records show it has been done in the past, and was done on my major completed last year. | ||
| Hayo (Hayo328)
New member Username: Hayo328 Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2003 |
OK everybody, thanks for the info! It has become clear: maintain the engine + box and it keeps on going, even on hard work. To Dave Handa and others: Why is it important to retorque the heads? I replaced both gaskets three months and 2K ago. Regards, Hayo. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Intermediate Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 1048 Registered: 8-2001 |
Pushing 70,000 miles on my 88 TR.......no rust, yet.....knock on wood!!!!!! | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1551 Registered: 5-2001 |
I don't think you can discount the importance of taking your car to a Ferrari specialist for service too. A guy over on the Ferrarilist had to replace his entire motor on his 328 because the independant, non-ferrari service shop didn't know to retorque the head bolts periodically. (Not sure the intervals, but found it has been done at least two or three times on my car during it's life, most recently at the major last year). | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1648 Registered: 4-2002 |
I work around a shop. I see engine/gearbox failures daily. Dr. Tommy is right. 100%. CHANGE THE FLUIDS!!!! | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1252 Registered: 5-2001 |
I guess I should add that the 85,689 miles are on the original factory-sealed long block and tranny. The secret? DRIVE IT! Drive them often and hard. Keep the fluids fresh and follow the proper service intervals and they will last as long as a Toyota. Just don't let them sit. Ferrari's are just like people - they need excercise to live a long time. DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE! | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 954 Registered: 4-2003 |
348 with 81K, runs strong. I even think it runs better the more often I drive it, and once in a while run hard on some fun roads.  Vincent. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2321 Registered: 10-2002 |
Omar is right. Rust killed my TR @115K. Before that 85K 308. Before that 65K 275GTB. (MILES) | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1239 Registered: 12-2001 |
My 79 308 has 155,000kms. Rebuilt engine and gearbox, starter, carbs, blah blah blah....should be over 160k by the fall. | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 787 Registered: 3-2001 |
I have 111,000 on one of my 308s. If you have any questions I would be happy to answer them. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1546 Registered: 5-2001 |
A freind has a 328 with around 105k miles. He said the top end was rebuilt by the PO at around 80 or 90k miles. Still runs very well! | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Intermediate Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 1251 Registered: 5-2001 |
My 84 QV has 85,689 miles and still runs better then new. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member Username: Verell Post Number: 1058 Registered: 5-2001 |
Maybe JRV can chime in here. He has his own shop & maintains Ferraris. I believe he has mentioned that the heads on 2V ferraris tend to need valve work at 60K to 80K miles. Not sure if this applies to QVs tho. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 2347 Registered: 6-2001 |
Is 36k high mileage? Proabably not. However ask Vincent about high mileage, his 348 has I think 70k in mileage, car looks perfect, and seems to run perfectly. I think these cars can be run to 100 - 150k without any trouble if you service them, and take care to ensure no damage to them. Art | ||
| Lee Hamner (Tennlee)
Junior Member Username: Tennlee Post Number: 142 Registered: 2-2002 |
My 308 has 90k miles. Runs great! | ||
| Omar (Auraraptor)
Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 860 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hayo, Mr G. used a TR as a daily driver until literaly it fell part at the seems. I think he put 110 or 120k miles on it as a daily driver. He could tell you more. | ||
| Tom Gehring (Tomg)
New member Username: Tomg Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hello Hayo, I know this is not on your list of cars, but I daily drive a '83 400i. It currently has approximately 82,000mi (132,000km) on the clock. Compression checks OK. Does not seem to burn any oil, although I do have some oil leaks I need to deal with, and it seems to run very strong. (Pretty sure it would beat my 308QV in a drag race). Problems seem to be with the various supporting systems and accessories. i.e. I've been through 2 alternators. The heater control valves froze shut. At the moment I think I have a rear end or wheel bearing in need of replacement, but that will wait for this winter. | ||
| Hayo (Hayo328)
New member Username: Hayo328 Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hi, I'm very curious in finding people who use 308, 328, Mondial, 355, Testarossa, 348 etc. cars almost every day. Most cars are kept in in good shape by not using them. That OK for value. But I want to know how reliable these automobiles really are! My car has 115000 km, but had a rebuild last year because of a failing big-end bearing. (Cause: exploded oil-hose to cooler). That doesn't mean that the engine has poor quality! Just bad luck. Please let me know how Ferraris perform at higher age and milage. Thanks in advance. Hayo The Netherlands |