| Author | Message | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 84 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hey JamesH & Mitchell Le "That custom muffler/catalytic converter cost me over 2,000, that included the labor to install it. Euro exhaust is different than USA Ferrari. Go and look at a US model muffler and catalytic converter assembly and look at a Euro muffler. Completly different, not a simple bolt on. You will probably have to change your exhaust manifold and everything back from there to be able to bolt up the US cat and muffler. I tried the alcohol trick, and it did not work. Also, even if your car has the DOT papers and was certified by an out of state shop that did the US conversion, the referee may not accept it and you would have to go the a California approved shop for recertification, which I believe cost $1500.(this may only be in the san francisco bay area) Major service $4300. Shipping $1200. Gas Analyser $2000. Cat/muffler $2200. Warm up Reg and adjustment $1100. Cat/muffler bought from a crook in Philly who advertise in FNA $900. and that did not include the cost for the test or the cost of the 4 bottles of alcohol. So it has cost me over 10,000. I hope you have better luck with yours "My opinion is what you are trying to do is going to be expensive and may not be worth it at all. James H did that and totally gave up because they were never able to get the CO2 and HC levels to within specs." perhaps you both need to get better informed. I just got the numbers from my mechanic and for a lil more than $1000 i have met california emissions. $150 for a GM electric airpump $300 for a new high flow cat 8 hours of labor @87hr=696 total cost to be legal in Cali=$1146.00 not $10,000 | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 63 Registered: 3-2003 |
Appreciate the input Steve. Happy Motoring | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 2027 Registered: 1-2001 |
Paul -- Unfortunately, my recollection is that even in 1992 it was 1.0% max CO at the tailpipe for my ex-carbed '78 in California (but I'll re-check that point tonight) -- it was so much easier to actually pass in Colorado with their 3% max CO limit. I wouldn't guess that the CO spec for a later model year would be more relaxed in California so let us know your HC/CO targets when you find out. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2003 |
Steve, I just called NORWOOD and they said the 512BBI Turbo in Colorado had co levels of 1.2 at idle, so hopefully, that level will pass in Cali? p.s. this 512 really exists, not a phantom cheers | ||
| Jeff Howe (Ferrari_uk)
Member Username: Ferrari_uk Post Number: 492 Registered: 12-2002 |
John - Malcolm and I have had a chat about this and to be honest we're not well enough qualified to answer your question. It's not a subject that either of us know well enough to be able to comment on, except to say that if you can get a list of parts required to do the job we can price them up, and will probably have them in stock. Hope this helps. JH | ||
| John Tennant (Jtennant75)
New member Username: Jtennant75 Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2003 |
Jeff, which parts would be fitted to a Euro QV to make it US smog-ready? How would you rate the difficulty of installation? Thanks. | ||
| Jeff Howe (Ferrari_uk)
Member Username: Ferrari_uk Post Number: 486 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hi all. Don't know if this helps but we have most of the US exhaust system in stock for USA QV. As stated below, it is very different to the Euro version. Regards #118821 Front manifold $1240 #118822 Rear manifold $1240 #114469 Cat converters $237 each #118994 Thermo coupler $250 each #118885 Front sampler pipes $220 #118886 Rear sampler pipes $NLA #118824 Rear Muffler $NLA  | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 2020 Registered: 1-2001 |
Paul -- Glad to hear you've got the right papers, but getting a "modified" Boxer (Adam B.'s?) thru Colorado (probably 3% max CO at idle) I believe isn't as hard as getting a stock US 308 thru California (probably 1% max CO at high and low RPM). Still want to give you positive waves -- best of luck (and do let us know how it goes)... | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2003 |
Dave & Steve the car is green light EPA/DOT. It is Bob Norwood's old car and he has come up with another brilliant idea. I just did the complete engine with all new internals, air/water intercooler, nitrous, boost controller, etc,etc,etc. he made a turbo boxer smog legal in colorado 1. GM electric smog pump 2. huge cat will keep you posted! It is legally registered in TX. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 60 Registered: 3-2003 |
Dave & Steve the car is green light EPA/DOT. It is Bob Norwood's old car and he has come up with another brilliant idea. I just did the complete engine with all new internals, air/water intercooler, nitrous, boost controller, etc,etc,etc. he made a turbo boxer smog legal in colorado 1. GM electric smog pump 2. huge cat will keep you posted! It is legally registered in TX.  | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 632 Registered: 11-2001 |
Register the car with your brother in law in Texas, some counties are smog exempt. Drive it with your Cal license and the excuse is ..."officer, I am considering buying from him so just driving it for a few days." | ||
| John Tennant (Jtennant75)
New member Username: Jtennant75 Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2003 |
Idaho may be the ticket, as I believe they only require a smog certification if you live in Boise. Nevada has a smog program. So does Texas. You've got to get the car there in person regardless, DMV does a VIN check the first time. Here's an idea: let's get all of the CA F-chat members together to rent a $200 apartment in Idaho for residency requirements.... | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 211 Registered: 5-2001 |
Solution for California Emission Register your car in another state with less restrictions. Get a driver lic. to match the state your car is registered in. Drive and be happy. | ||
| James H. (Jamesh)
Junior Member Username: Jamesh Post Number: 210 Registered: 5-2001 |
That custom muffler/catalytic converter cost me over 2,000, that included the labor to install it. Euro exhaust is different than USA Ferrari. Go and look at a US model muffler and catalytic converter assembly and look at a Euro muffler. Completly different, not a simple bolt on. You will probably have to change your exhaust manifold and everything back from there to be able to bolt up the US cat and muffler. I tried the alcohol trick, and it did not work. Also, even if your car has the DOT papers and was certified by an out of state shop that did the US conversion, the referee may not accept it and you would have to go the a California approved shop for recertification, which I believe cost $1500.(this may only be in the san francisco bay area) Major service $4300. Shipping $1200. Gas Analyser $2000. Cat/muffler $2200. Warm up Reg and adjustment $1100. Cat/muffler bought from a crook in Philly who advertise in FNA $900. and that did not include the cost for the test or the cost of the 4 bottles of alcohol. So it has cost me over 10,000. I hope you have better luck with yours. | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 629 Registered: 11-2001 |
Quote: $2000 for a cat? what are you smoking? Paul, I am not smoking anything. James bought a custom stainless exhaust that is either header/Cat, or cat/muffler and it was very expensive. And, he had to fight with the state to get them to accept it as legit. My opinion is what you are trying to do is going to be expensive and may not be worth it at all. James H did that and totally gave up because they were never able to get the CO2 and HC levels to within specs. California just started the "test-on-dyno" smog programs for all major metropolitan, so it will even be more strict. In the end, your car, your money, your time. You asked for comments and opinions, you got them. What you do with them is ... your business. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1578 Registered: 5-2001 |
John, ICP stands for italian car parts (www.italiancarparts.com) but should stand for "incredible cost parts" as their prices for many items are double or more than the authorized FNA dealer! Beware, and compare before shopping there... | ||
| John Tennant (Jtennant75)
New member Username: Jtennant75 Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2003 |
I have an 86 Euro Mondial in Sacramento. Going through the same issue. Trying to get the thing running right first (failing bank of cylinders and exhaust popping). Wondering out-loud if there is a "$200 smog" available....I read about that a few months ago elsewhere in these pages. The "rubbing alcohol" procedure, assuming that it is safe, may get the car to pass through the pipe--then you just need to pass the visual. Paul, where is "ICP"? | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Intermediate Member Username: Verell Post Number: 1066 Registered: 5-2001 |
Steve, re:"how could you do it without an Amerispec involved?" Don't think you can if you want to receive DOT/EPA paperwork. However, You don't necessairily need them if you're just going to pass a state inspection. An awful lot depends on the particular state as to whether they want to see DOT/EPA paperwork. A lot of them never ask/don't seem to care/don't know enough to ask. My suspicion is that DOT/EPA paperwork might be more of an issue in getting a car registered the 1st time in a state. Once registered, the inspection stations don't care or don't know enough to ask. Unfortunately, CA is the state most likely to be anal about the paperwork.(Just a guess, based on their rep. as they're on the other side of the country from MA.) | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 2014 Registered: 1-2001 |
Paul -- Dave brought up the important first point = what's the paperwork status on the car? Is it a case of a one-time decently converted car that's been stripped over the years or a total illegal? I believe an equivalent '83 US configuration would use 2 cats so this bumps the price some, but if it's a total illegal how could you do it without an Amerispec involved? | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1574 Registered: 5-2001 |
Paul, I would agree on the cat, you can get aftermarket stuff to work, but the air pump? There are a lot of brackets and plumbing needed, beyond just the pump itself and the stock stuff is EXPENSIVE. Either that, or you will be doing a lot of fabricating to make something work... BTW, can you just bolt on stuff w/o working through a certified facility? And with a car that has never been certified in this country before? Also, I was thinking, the air pump may not really need to work to pass the "visual" since the car should pass with just the cat. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 59 Registered: 3-2003 |
$2000 for a cat? what are you smoking? 1. new cat from ICP $499 2. Used exhaust on EBAY $500 3. air pump from ICP $200 VIP transport coast to coast $1500 i don't know where you got your #'s but they don't add up? | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 625 Registered: 11-2001 |
1. couple thou for an after market Catalytic converter, 2. over $2k for a used exhaust gas analyzer to help him tweak the thing, 3. thousands of dollars to pay his mechanics twice for tuning it and it did not pass 4. Thousands to fix the car after a hit and run while it was parked in HIS driveway 5. thousands more to sue the driver's insurance company 6. thousands in a heartbreaking bent valve episode 7. untold number of trips to the DMV asking for temp licenses 8. Thousands of transport from back east 9. $3000 in the first tune up right after the car was bought just to be able to drive it. So ... many dollars later, it is now sold for an undisclosed amount ... and it is out of his life. He is enjoying his 328GTS however. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2003 |
10k? INTERESTING why so much? I can buy the parts for $800 | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 623 Registered: 11-2001 |
Paul, check with James H and the trouble he had in doing exactly what you are doing. He gave up after $10K+ of expense and now is selling the car at a big loss. | ||
| Paul Brennan (Turboqv)
Junior Member Username: Turboqv Post Number: 56 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hi guys, I have a 83 euro qv and I want to make it smog legal in CA Currently there is no air pump, cat or stock exhaust. Is that all i need to make it pass inspection? This assuming the levels are within limits. thanks |