| Author | Message | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 237 Registered: 2-2002 |
Friends, I talked to several knowledgable F-mechanics before I did my major service and got a 50/50 response. I was told by half sometimes by losening the nuts you can damage the gasket as it might not seal as well. Others said yes but to do it this way. Mark all the nuts, so you can determine movement, loosen each nut 1/4 to 1/2 turn, retorque to specs as per diagram in OM. I was told that on some majors techs found loose nuts. Mine seemed fine and so far so good, I guess now all I have to worry about is my valve falling apart! :-) BTW It is really good to see Malcolm, Phil and JRV here I know you guys are the experts, and since I do all my own work your advice is welcomed and highly respected, Thank you!! Rob | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 2192 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>I've built many Ferrari engines, and recommend tightenting Dino's after 20 hours or 1000 miles from head on,<< The Factory Break-in, Free Coupon Service for Valve Check -Head Torque was for 1500 miles after being put into service. So Phil is on the mark there. This applied to all engines dating back to the V-12's...actually predating most US Dealers..and therefore any way of getting the operation performed in many cases. It is well known that this 1500 service "was not" performed on 99% of the engines. While history has shown the 8's seemed immune from the retorque, the 12's weren't so lucky. I seriously doubt any more 8's were retorqued at 1500 miles across the pond than they were in this country. >>If, to avoid the stiction, you loosen first and then lubricate and re-tighten the nuts, you then put the stud through a stretch cycle, contradicting Ferrari's advice in that department.... << This has been hottly debated here in the past...like Phil, I'm No fan of restreching the studs and disturbing the seal. >>AT 70 Nm (52 Ftlbs), try to tighten each head nut and CHECK IT DOES NOT ROTATE. In case one or more nuts prove to be not tight, you shall unscrew and re-tighten following the procedure described in the next section (see ENGINE OVERHAULING<< The above is how I check the torque whenever the covers are off. Which in most cases is at every major service interval prior to checking/adjusting the valves. The coupon service (1500 mi) is the most important check. If a head or partial head is loose by 15000K miles the damage is done and likely irreverrsible. Since the Dealers never did the 1800 check in the first place and those cars are 15 years old by now, it's a testament that 1)Ferrari made very few mistakes building engines as a rule 2)the design was very resilient to abuse/neglect. | ||
| Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarifixer Post Number: 53 Registered: 7-2003 |
Good work DGS That's exactly the interpretation query that occurs in so much Ferrari maintenance. I guess there's many ways to skin a cat. Always interesting debate though, keep it coming! | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
Member Username: Dgs Post Number: 259 Registered: 5-2003 |
So which is the "latest word", the Service Bulletin, or the service schedule in later cars' owners manuals? Extracted from: SERVICE BULLETIN No 10-14 DATE: 9/8/86 INTRODUCTION The new 3200-8 cylinder engines, installed on 328 GTB/GTS and Mondial 3200/Cabriolet is equipped with new studs (p.n. 126647), washers (p.n.126648) and nuts (p.n.126646), for fitting and tightening of cylinder heads. They are torqued following a special procedure in order to ensure a uniform and constant load which does not vary in consequence of the settling down of the cylinder head gasket and engine life. There is no longer any need to re-torque during the scheduled maintenance. ... MAINTENANCE It is not necessary to re-torque the cylinder heads for the entire engine life. However, for our knowledge and research we ask you to perform a rough checking of the head nuts torque, at least on the first few cars, while performing valve clearances checking (every 15,000 miles) in the following way; with a standard torque wrench, ACCURATELY CALIBRATED AT 70 Nm (52 Ftlbs), try to tighten each head nut and CHECK IT DOES NOT ROTATE. In case one or more nuts prove to be not tight, you shall unscrew and re-tighten following the procedure described in the next section (see ENGINE OVERHAULING). | ||
| Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
Junior Member Username: Ferrarifixer Post Number: 52 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yeah, can't read it, but don't doub't it's content if you put it there! Still, I'd be intigued to know how many tech's actually check and adjust the torques, and what is the exact procedure they follow. Thanks for that. | ||
| Malcolm West (Ferrari_uk_tech)
New member Username: Ferrari_uk_tech Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2003 |
Phil - I agree with your comments, the information I posted was taken from the service schedule in the owner's handbook which forms the basis of the service operations carried out by the service shop.  Sorry for the quality, you will have to copy and enlarge to read, basically item 14 reads :- Check and adjust valve clearance and cylinder heads torque. MW | ||
| Phil Hughes (Ferrarifixer)
New member Username: Ferrarifixer Post Number: 50 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hmmm. I've never worked in a main dealer, but have read most of the service schedules. I can't remember seeing anything about re-tightening heads. Maybe there's a service bulletin/update I haven't seen. And, with Ferrari's own recommendation of replacing the studs when re-building an engine, I doubt the credibility of this advice, but remain open to more evidence, and will willingly change my opinion and advice to others if I'm wrong. In my (16years) experience, simply trying to nip up the nuts on most of these or any cars you have to overcome the "stiction" and/or corrosion in many cases,(coolant sometimes travels up the head studs and rusts the steel), therefore getting false readings. If, to avoid the stiction, you loosen first and then lubricate and re-tighten the nuts, you then put the stud through a stretch cycle, contradicting Ferrari's advice in that department.... I've built many Ferrari engines, and recommend tightenting Dino's after 20 hours or 1000 miles from head on, and all other models, leave well alone. It's never let me down yet..... I'm intrigued Malcom...can you post the Ferrari advice with it's date of implementation please? | ||
| Malcolm West (Ferrari_uk_tech)
New member Username: Ferrari_uk_tech Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2003 |
Dave, not JRV but MJW ! I'm not sure about US spec cars, but Euro 328's have the cylinder heads re-torqued @ 12500, 25000, 37500, 50000, 62500, miles and so on. It is recommended by the factory and is carried out during the service when the valve clearances are checked. MW | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1599 Registered: 5-2001 |
My mechanic did this during the major service on my 328, and I noticed on Eugineo's site that he too torques the head on a major service. Is this a factory recommended procedure? And is this the recommended interval? Thanks |