| Author | Message | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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Are these the ones that you used? http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/autopartsphotos/exhaust/muffler/applications/304.gif | ||
| Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
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I am already using an Edelbrock SS system in the same way on my '85 QV. Can tell U that not only is the sound great, the performance of the car seems to have improved as well. Edelbrock has a muffler which has in inlet and outlet diagonally opposed and that is the system U need. Slap 2 together and U have your exhausts. I will try to see if I can get a clear photo of the system. | ||
| John_Miles (John_Miles)
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You could have a point re: the reformulated gas, Bill. RFG is probably the best example of know-nothing government bureaucracy run amok I can think of offhand. Certainly, gas mileage has really started to suck over the past few years. I tend to get 13 MPG in town (Seattle area) in this car, where my '77 would do 15 MPG city a few years back in the Austin area. There's no reason why this car should do that much worse, and if anything it doesn't get driven as hard in the heavier traffic around here. I'm going to change the idle jets next, just to see what it does. Maybe the air-correction jets too. So far, only the mains have been changed out. The Tubi is staying right where it is, though.  | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
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John, I just wonder if the increase in jetting compensated just for the decrease in back pressure or whether the widespread use of oxygenated fuels also had something to do your lean mixture. I think the only way to check this would be to run a stock exhaust system with stock jetting and then do a rerun with larger main jets or smaller air correctors and plot the difference. Bill | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
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John, I just wonder if the increase in jetting compensated just for the decrease in back pressure or whether the widespread use of oxygenated fuels also had something to do your lean mixture. I think the only way to check this would be to run a stock exhaust system with stock jetting and then do a rerun with larger main jets or smaller air correctors and plot the difference. Bill | ||
| John_Miles (John_Miles)
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One word of warning. If you've got a carbureted car, be sure to check your exhaust mixtures, preferably on a dyno, after installing an aftermarket exhaust. You may actually LOSE power if you don't re-jet the carburetors to compensate for the loss of back pressure. My '76 308GTB's previous owner put a Tubi on the car but did not re-jet the carburetors. Consequently, it was running way too lean. Changing the main jets up one size from 135 to 140 made a big difference in RWHP and high-RPM drivability. A gain of 21 RWHP from a 0.05 mm change in jet sizes is pretty amazing!  | ||
| rick kestner (Ferrar1)
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Like I said, I wanted it to use and fit in the original place. Can you post the photo here for everyone else to see? The muffler shop took about 1.5 hours to install it, and they charged 40 and hour plus materials. I think it was a good price as well. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Rick, Scott emailed me your photos. Beautiful installation. It appears that a rod was welded on to the inlet pipes of the muffler and hooked through the orig. muffler mounting brackets. The tips or Monza resonators which are also welded on protrude out of the orig openings looking like the orig. dual pipes. The entire unit is up inside the muffler cavity of the body and is not exposed. Nice job. At $100.00 you got a helluva deal on the installation. Very professional. | ||
| rick kestner (Ferrar1)
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I'll have to check on the part number ... but it was the only dul inlet duel outlet muffler flowmaster had in thier cataloge. As for mounting it, I used the same factor mounts. Bolted to the car at the factor mount and welded to the pipe. Again, keeping everything as stock looking as possible. would post some photo's, but I/m not sure how. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Erik Lombard mentions the American V-8 cross-over pipe, or better known as the "H-Pipe" (as the two pipes from either bank run parallel, mid-way is a pipe joining the two forming the letter "H"). Yes this does help in scavenging, but works with the design of those engines and its exhaust pulses. Steve M. mentioned in the "Flat-crank" posting, that these 308 engines have even, equal pulses. I don't know if having some sort of "H" pipe in this system would be effective.... but then, it may not hurt it. Having back-pressure to a certain point is important, but its a science that's beyond me. I'd install two glass-packs! J | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Could this be a better way to custom build your exhaust. Sounds like it may be. The cost of custom made aftermarket systems is a factor and we see on F.C. of which aftermarket has the best sound, Tubi or Borla or whatever. Some say one or the other is too loud others say the sound is not custom enough. This is the way to experiment with different applications and come up with a pleasing sound, which I might add is, "in the ears of the beholder." Less expensive and ways to tone it. Hold on to your orig. muffler and cats in case you want to convert back to the orig. system. None of this is a direct bolt in but it is interesting in that DIY owners can experiment with what is pleasing to them. I think in the future we will hear of different types of conversions which should be interesting. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Rick, your conversion sounds great but why do you think there has to be some back pressure. Just curious. Also what is the Part No. of the flowmaster muffler you used? How did they hang the muffler? Can you give us some idea? | ||
| michael marchese (Bigdog)
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Well I just recently finished having the ansa tips put on the borla system on my 80 gtsi, and what a difference, yet still that same Ferrari tone plus you CAN still hear the wine of the gearbox. I would strongly recommend this to anyone seeking a pleasant combination of performance and SOUND. | ||
| rick kestner (Ferrar1)
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There are a couple of other things too keep in mind as well. (true or fiction ... I do not know)The reason I when to a single muffler was because both my headers went into one cat. Ferrari made it a point to run equal length headers ... so I wanted to keep about the same amount of pipe before the muffler. You can see from my installation, with the duel inlet .., duel outlet I was able to keep the same amount of piping, plus I wanted to keep some backpressure. I have heard that some backpressure is needed. Using one muffler, I am sure too keep some backpressure. The flowmaster I used was very simular in design to the stock system (one inlet on each side of the muffler and one outlet on each side of the muffler), except it was a bit more free flowing ... and louder. I was a bit disappointed in the sound because it was louder than my broken up stock system. So I put the monza tips on expecting a little difference. The tips actuall reduce the sound in half ... creating a really nice exhaust system. It is louder than stock sytems when pushed (more flow). | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Yeah Scott, that is what I was talking about. There sure is enough room up under there to hang those bad boys. I like the idea of the two independent systems. Also what did you and Rick come up with RE: the resonator tips, as to which ones to use and the brand name. I see Rick used Monza on his conversion. | ||
| rick kestner (Ferrar1)
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I believe the 308's cars are simular ... I had a 1982 gtsi amd a 1977 gtb ... so I am pretty sure. My car is a euro model so the exhaust may be somewhat different and I do not have to worry about emmissions here in GA. But I am sure I could have stuck a new high flow cat in the system if needed. I ordered my flowmaster thru the flowmaster cataloge and as you can see from the photos it is a duel inlet and outlet system. I picked this one because it seemed to fit perfect. I ran the car for a couple of day with the flowmaster and some ordinary crome tips ... but I thought it was a bit too load for my taste. So I bought some monza duel resonate tips from summitt for 29.00 each, and they tone it down perfect for me. When running on the highway you hear just the normal growl, but when you step on the gas, the system really comes alive quite nice without being overpowering. The muffler was 150, the tips where 60, delivery and taxes brought the cost to 250, and the muffler shop charged my 100 in labor. total cost of 350. The only thing I would caution anyone on is decide what loudness you are looking for when looking for a muffler. The installtion fit ike aglove ... any muffler shop could easily get it to work. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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Thanks Rick for telling us about your homebrew exhaust. I've been toying with the idea for a while now and I'm glad someone has tried it. I was going to try Edelbrock SS mufflers and hook some pipe to run a test to see what it sounds like before I get fancy with the bends and a bracket. With the standard sizes for these, I expected to exhaust the right side to the left outlet an so forth. I guess I need to get busy now--- I'm tired of the stock exhaust sound. | ||
| Erik Lombard (Elombard)
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Anybody know if its a good idea to have a cross over pipe on a 308? I like the idea of the systems mentioned below with two seperate mufflers, but american V8s benefit from having the two cylinder banks connected somewhere in the exaust system. I think it helps to "scavenge" better or something. Also I would love to see some pics of the custom mondial system. | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
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Magoo, I think that is the way I'm going to do it on my 80 GTSi; run two seperate mufflers. On the Passenger side you can come straight back from the cat (obviously bend around the suspension) and on the drivers side I'd use a small 90' bend to meet the original pipe and then go straight out. I think its just a matter of fabricating some brakets and getting the measurements right. Rick was very kind to e-mail me and one of his suggestions was to find the right exhuast tips to get the sound you want. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Herb, How about a couple of flowmasters run off each header independently, mounting them and installing the dual resonating tips? It is just my opinion, but any exhaust that restricts the exhaust flow more on one side then the other can't be the best design. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Herb, His is probably better because of easier exhaust flow also. Rick that's a great idea. Were you able to bend all the pipes correctly to receive the header pipes? Also how did you mount it? Tell us more about your conversion. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I have often wondered about doing something like that as I will never be convinced that some of the aftermarket Ferrari specific exhaust systems are worth so much money. Yours is probably just as good. Way to go!!! | ||
| rick kestner (Ferrar1)
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I know some of you may think this is .... awfull but.... I did not feel like spending the 1000 on a new exhaust for my 1985 mondial so I bought a flowmaster with 2 inlets and 2 outlets with som Monza resonate tips and had a muffler shop weld it all together .... total cost was 350.00 and it sounds awsome. Rick | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
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I spoke with Borla Last night about a system for my TR, and they told me that they have decided not to produce the systems for the older cars due to lack of demand. Only the 550 was being produced at this time. They also said that most were made to order and very few if any should be out there at distributors for sale. | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
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Thanks for all the input! Basically what everyone is saying is that these afertmarket systems (in addition to performance)mainly accentuate the existing exhuast note more than they change it? Which is perfectly fine with me. I thought I saw a thread here that said Borla was dicontinuing all Ferrari systems except for the 550. My main goal is to keep that sophisticated high performance purr and not get too loud. | ||
| michael marchese (Bigdog)
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Scott, I have a borla system on my 80 gtsi, and I'm in the process of placing ansa tips on it. The borla has the baritone sound unique to Ferrari and NEVER has it been mistaken for an American v-8 I'm hoping to quiet it down (only somewhat) with the ansa tips as the borla tips were merely chromed tips wihout packing like the ansa's. As for perfomance you'll get different responses but like Nick replied borla has the better performance | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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The Borla on the TR is beautiful, one of the best sounding Ferrari engines. You can't even describe how great it is. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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I have Borla on my TR, and it definitely does not sound like a V8. It does tend to lean towards the F1 engine type sounds at higher RPMs though. As far as loudness, I guess it will vary with the type of engine, because unlike Nick suggested, my neighbors TR is much louder than mine and he has a Tubi exhaust on it. No Cats on his or mine. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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Ferraris have a flat crank engine which will never sound like an American V8. The Tubi, Borla, Ansa and other aftermarket systems for Ferrari enhance the high pitch F1 type wail that only a Ferrari with it's flat crank engine can produce. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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Below is Nick's response to a similiar question, I bought a Borla and cat-con test pipes from him and love the sound and performance. Paul By Nick Scianna (Nick) on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 02:22 pm: Edit HI.As far as loudness goes in this order from loudest to the quietest Borla,Tubi and ANSA the same goes for performance flow figures.If you find that your exhaust is still too loud after your purchase,we offer a spiral pack test pipes for the 2 valve and 1983 4 valve 308 series cars that will lower the db's WITHOUT LOWERING THE FLOW! They fit where your cat cons would normally go.You also may wanna find someone who sells all the major brands of aftermarket exhausts for Ferrari so you will get a honest opinion on what the best exhaust would be for your own type of driving style,and year of car.Nick Scianna.Borla.Tubi.ANSA dealer.Ferrari chat sponsor!www.nicksforzaferrari.com | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
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I've been wanting to put an exhuast system on my car - 80' GTSi - and was just wonering what kind of sound I can expect after. Obviously aftermarkets have more flow and thus more power but I'm not sure I've ever paid attention to the sound before I bought my car? Do these systems; tubi, borla, ansa.. give the car a more throaty rumble (like an american v-8) or do they produce more of an purr like the stock sound but only enhanced? |