| Author |
Message |
Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 2:28 pm: | |
OK, this is the scoop around here-
There is one factory flat rate (whatever the manufacturer), dealers are paid at their shop rate for the published # of hours per job. e.g. clutch replace 6.0 hrs. Tyhe techs need hours so they load as many jobs at the book rate, but do not deduct for any overlapping time. Joe Customer comes in for the same job and service manager quotes anything from 9 to 12 hours, saying that the times are established on a new vehicle, no rusted fasteners etc., so they allow for that and extra cleaning etc., if you have more than one task to do, they like before add all the individual hours, they make money, the tech makes his 50-60 houurs per 40 hour week and you pay your bill. Ask before you commit, total # hours @ what rate. Remember though if you think about it, do you pay for your attorney"s hours or the legal assistant?, the dentist or the dental technician? etc., etc.. |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2001 - 10:08 pm: | |
Jim, Don't bet on that the dealers are using one book. Who do you think makes up the flat rate times for the dealers. The manufacture. Like all car dealers there is flat rate time for warranty repairs and flat rate time for customer pay. What happens is that Ferrari cuts the time to the dealer on warranty pay and the dealer adds time on to the Ferrari suggested hourly rate for customer pay. Believe it or not this is true. |
James Angle (Jimbo74)
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 8:00 pm: | |
I'm sure that the dealerships are going by What the Book says for estimated time of completions of certain jobs, and that's where you get inflated figures for jobs as say, pulling an engine (worst case scenario). If that's what their maintenance book says, then that's what they can legally charge. Overseas, I'm sure they have a different mindset (aren't just in it for the money) and the mechanics actually charge you for the actual time it takes them to do the job. I'm sure it wouldn't take 30 hrs for a reputable Ferrari dealer to pull an engine, but they probably would charge you for it. |
Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 3:48 pm: | |
i have seen a very wide range of prices for a FULL service on 308/328 with records attached to cars thru my shop. We take 3 to 4 days to carry out everything that we think is included, very close to the NZ mechanics list.
The final cost is usually around the $3K mark depends on actual model, number valve shims etc., etc.. I know that some dealers are quoting a similar price (see Florida!). Take into acount the equipment, training tools etc. and it's fair. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 2:03 pm: | |
If you want to find out the true time for a labor operation, consult the warranty time guide that the Factory pays the Dealer for warranty labor operations. It will shock you versus the time that they charge for customer pay. When I was with Fiat we had a Lancia Beta Coupe with a rod stuck through the side of the block and the Factory said they would pay 9 hours to replace the block. I refused. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 11:30 am: | |
Yes, at first that sounds like a good argument against doing work on your car yourself. Nevertheless, the cost of doing the 30K service and clutch will cost you less than $3000.00 in genuine Ferrari parts (save receipts), which will save anywhere from $8 to $12K in labor (per some of the prices listed in this thread). If you have to do it more than once, then we are talking serious money here ($16K to $24K in savings), and I do not believe a prospective buyer will try to negotiate the final price anywhere near that differential. In fact, I believe that the selling price reduction, if any, will be negligible as compared to the savings in repairs and maintenance (if you know what you are doing, and the car shows well mechanically). |
Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 10:36 am: | |
Does Ferrari have a document for its services shops that lists the time required to do certain jobs? Most shops use this to write up estimates. It would interesting to see how padded this is compared with the real-life data we just heard.
Part of the problem is that, though lots of jobs are rather easy to do at home, when it comes time to sell you car and move on to the next one, potential buyers want to see receipts from a Ferrari dealership. So yes, you may save yourself money by replacing your own clutch or belts or whatever, but then you're going to lose that money again when it comes time to sell the car since you don't have the Ferrari reciepts that "prove" to the buyer that the job was done correctly.
So nearly everyone ends up taking their cars to the dealer or other well known shops, even the owners who could do the work themselves. And the shops take advantage of this by charging a million dollars and hour and padding the time spent on a task on your invoice.
-Rich |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 10:18 am: | |
I believe it cost that much here, because many owners are too loose with their wallets to begin with (pride, lunacy, idiocy, who knows!). Dealers/Mechanics assume that if you are willing to pay premium for a Ferrari, you are also willing to pay for the maintenance/repairs at a premium as well. Personally, I do very little repairs on any of my cars(knock on wood!), but from all of them, the TR seems to be the simplest of designs, and consequently it should be the cheapest to service and maintain (part's cost aside). Sadly, as we all know, that is not the case. |
TomD (Tifosi)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 10:16 am: | |
I got an idea, instead of shipping our cars to NZ why don't we get pitch in a buy this guy a plane ticket to the US for two weeks. ($1500) and he can work on our cars for $25 USD an hour. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 9:33 am: | |
Boys, we're moving to New Zealand. It's gonna be harder to take over than a Caribbean Island would be, but it's definitely worth it.
I can't believe you got all that done for $1500. What's wrong with the US service people, why woulld it cost 4 times that here? |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 8:28 am: | |
Andrew, I wish I could find someone like that over here. Those prices are fair and more realistic as to what is required to do the job. The Ferrari dealers and repair shops here in the USA are outrageous with their charges. At those prices it would almost be worth it to ship a Ferrari to NZ for service and ship it back. |
TomD (Tifosi)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 6:07 am: | |
If you got someone to work on your car, let alone a ferrari for $25 USD equiv an hour then stay where you are. You can't get someone to work on a vw for less than $50 USD an hour here in the states. Maybe NZ could become the Ferrari Island some people talked about in some other chat strings |
Andrew Wass (Enzonz)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 2:48 am: | |
You guys in the US really pay for servicing Ferraris. In March 2000 I bought my 1991 Mondial t coupe. It was 9 years old, one owner and a total of only 18,000kms (or about 12k miles for people who count using those measurements) Due to the age I decided to get the cambelt done as well as a bunch of other things. Below Frank Parker wrote:
*******************************************
I was told by Ferrari of Atlanta that it takes approximately 30 hours to remove and replace a 348 engine not counting the time to service the valves, belts, etc. while the engine is on the bench.
********************************************
They fed you a rather bad joke. The mondial t has the same mechanicals as the 348 and the powertrain/subframe drops down the same way. It took my mechanic just over 3 hours to completely remove the unit and then just over 4 hours to re-install it. In a total of 32 hours he:
Removed/Installed the engine
Changed oil/filter
Changed Gearbox oil
replaced all drive belts
Changed plugs and checked all HT wiring
Replaced cam belt and set timing
Checked/altered valve clearances
replaced coolant/checked all hoses
replaced both fuel filters & air filter
Bolt checked engine, exhaust
Inspected brakes, pads, discs etc
Bled brakes/replaced fluid
Adjusted handbrake
checked steering system
Converted the aircon to R134A refrigerant
bumper to bumper check of all nuts/bolts etc
Set tyre pressures
Roadtest
Genuine Ferrari parts used throughout
Total invoice $3,555.25 (New Zealand dollars including taxes) which is about US$1493. Labour was 32 hours at $56.25/hour or $1,800. Parts etc totalled $1,755 and of that the aircon conversion was nearly $400 !
My mechanic does not work for a Ferrari dealer but has his own Ferrari business - services nothing but Ferraris
Cheers
Andrew in New Zealand |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 8:06 pm: | |
SF - rates aren't much better...
a lighter wallet
-Ben |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 7:35 pm: | |
Ric Rainbolt documented the DIY engine removal approach for a TR, and I believe(?) it took him (I don't have the document with me right know, but I could dig it out later if anybody is interested) about 20 hours the first time he did it, but less than half that time in subsequent ocassions. Hence, an experience Ferrari technician should be able to do it in 8 hours or less. Again, 30 hours is plain and simple robbery.
Washington dealers charging 8-12k for a TR 30K service, that is terrible! That is about 15-20% the cost of the car. I believe shipping it back and forth to L.A. or San Francisco would be more cost effective, and perhaps a better choice. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 4:01 pm: | |
Actually, I know a guy who does exactly that!! Funny you thought of the same thing. |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 3:55 pm: | |
At those prices, you could ship your car back and forth across the country to someone that charges less... |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 3:51 pm: | |
4 - 6 K lucky guys. Up my way in Washington the dealer wants 8 - 10K for a TR 30K and I have talked to 2 people who got hit for over 12K. Some people feel they don't have a choice -- I'm too rich to play that game. People seem to forget the richer you are the more choices you have in some things and this is one of them. I have to admit that I can't complain about the quality of their work but after a while its gets silly. It gets better, i know a guy who used an unused corner of their shop to do his OWN 30K and they charged him like they did it. Yikes!!! |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 2:06 pm: | |
Arnaldo, you are correct. It is robbery, but what can you do. I was told by Ferrari of Atlanta that it takes approximately 30 hours to remove and replace a 348 engine not counting the time to service the valves, belts, etc. while the engine is on the bench. The entire job is between $4000.00 and $6000.00 depending on what they find wrong while the engine is out. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 2:01 pm: | |
I seem to recall from a discussion with one of T.Rutlands's sales people that the cost of belts, bearings, and seals was in the order of $700 to $800 dollars. They even quoted me a water pump rebuild kit for $75 (all TR parts). Hence, the larger portion of the cost of the 30K service is the labor, not the parts. Over $4000.00 dollars to drop the engine, perform valve adjustments, replace parts, timing adjustments, and put it all together seems like plain robbery to me. Specially when compared to other cars for which you do not have to drop the engine, but still perform the rest of the service related items. At least $2K to $3K of the service charges (mostly engine drop, it seems) are excessive IMO. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:36 pm: | |
Jim E -- I'd agree that the "belts" (which IMHO means belts, cam seals, and tensioner bearings) is a significant part of the major service cost, but to compare costs for a "major without belts" you really have to understand exactly what is and what isn't included. A skimpy "valve clearance check/adjust with spark plug, oil, and coolant changes" is quite a bit different than something more comprehensive including those things plus: CV joint/boot refresh, brake flushing, clutch linkage adjust/relube or flushing, dist work/parts, etc.. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:26 pm: | |
Jim, a $30k service would cost $30k, right ? Ha Ha Now a 30k mile service will cost between $2k and $10k depending on which model. My 328 30k mile service was $2.5k ; my TR $5.5k; and I understand my 348 30k mile sevice will cost $6k or so. I have heard that the 360 30k mile service is $10k. |
Jim E (Jimpo1)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:14 pm: | |
Quite a can of worms I seem to have opened here. Does anyone know what the cost of a $30k service would be WITHOUT belts? It has to be a major portion of the cost. I'm not looking for a cheap way out and had planned on having it done when I bought the car, but on the other hand, why spend money you don't have to. Damn this Ferrari habit. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 10:30 am: | |
I change the oil in my cars with sythetic oil every 5,000 miles whether it needs it or not. As far as cam belts are concerned, that's a bit different. The Ferrari factory believes a belt change every 52,500 miles is warranted. The FNA dealers are only recommending it sooner for the money. And Donald, shame on you for not driving your Ferrari at least 15,000 miles in 5 years. With that few miles you are going to have a lot more to replace than just a cam belt. In the 348 you can see a lot of the belt through the inspection hole and could take off the plastic shroud to get a better look if necessary. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 10:03 am: | |
Here's my 1 cent worth...
I think it's true that there's more pressure from shops to do the belts, because it's good business for them. I believe you could probably get away with driving the car 100k without a belt going. However, I'm not going to find out, my car is getting the belts changed every 30k or 7 years. If not that the belts actually need changing, but the decrease in value for perception of not being cared for.
Also, most new cars today have manufacturer recommended oil changes of 5k miles or even over 10k. That should almost be a crime. Yes, your car will still run great through the warranty only changing the oil every 10k. How about later in it's life, that's when the early abuse will show up. Have you ever seen oil after 5k miles or even 10k miles? Like Nick has explained before, engines will experience the most wear on start-up/warming up and then at extreme temps. The more used and older your oil, then the less it can protect at these extremes.
Does anyone know how hard it is to accurately just check the belts to make sure they're good. Or is there no way you can tell if it's going to fail? |
DONALD GRIESDALE (Griesdale)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 8:46 am: | |
Peter, I live in Lions Bay and work in Vancouver. Hope to see you at local FCA events in 2002! Don. Thanks to Magoo for the wisdom. |
Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 5:39 am: | |
I specialise in European exotics including Ferrari and Porsche. On a 944 Porsche the belts had to be changed every 45K, if not they WOULD break or fail even though we check the tension every 15K, and even after a much improved system was introduced in 87. As to the 308/328 s they run what is known as a "flat" crank, several people on this board have correctly stated about the engine being two fours, that is why the car could lose a coil on one bank and still feel ok if down on power (hence the "slow down" lights). I have had cases of cars on fire because owners continued to drive- BEWARE! Anyway, the flat crank is much more prone to vibration due to the firing sequence but all good race engines (Cosworth DfV, DFX etc.) use them. The vibration and early square tooth profile is hard on the drive teeth, also with an all alloy engine cold to hot expansion is a lot for a fixed tension system as on these cars. Start your car, then fiddle around with seat and belts etc., giving a few extra minutes for the engine to expand and take up the belt slacck, drive off and wait for some oil temp before driving as every Ferrari should be! Also, sorry for the long post, take a few seconds after driving with the engine idling for things to normalise and cool down some. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 3:24 am: | |
So Donald, you're from Vancouver eh? I'm in Langley. |
1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 12:49 am: | |
Even looking from the hole you cannot see the belt's teeth, and as far as I know if one of the teeth brakes...... :-( |
magoo (Magoo)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 11:25 pm: | |
Donald, This is a question that keeps coming up. It's like flip a coin. If you feel belts deteriorate then change on time, If you feel they wear then change on mileage. If you feel they do both, then change which ever comes first, time or mileage. I guess the two best people to comment on this again and again are Nick or Herb. It still is a mystery to many of us. |
DONALD GRIESDALE (Griesdale)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 10:59 pm: | |
I realize that this discussion is mostly about 328 belts but since the matter of TR belts was mentioned, should the TR belts be changed every 5 years or every 15000 miles if the car is driven a lot less than 15000 miles in 5 years? Thanks. Don in Vancouver B.C. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 9:40 pm: | |
Edward,
Thanks for the honest reply and from a professional and business standpoint I agree with you. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 9:30 pm: | |
It would depend on why I had the engine out and how long it had been since the belts were last replaced. There are too many variables to that question to give a firm answer to. Every case is different. Some people seem to get off on how much they spend on their cars where as others want to cut corners and save as much as possible. A lot of times I actually have to talk people out of doing unnecessary repairs. I do a lot of timing belts, at least one a day on something, and I make a lot of money doing it, but probably half of the replacements are done at the customers request and not because it has reached the recommended mileage. I do it because if I don't they will get it done somewhere else. The customer is always right, at least he thinks so and if they leave happy, and I have done my best, that's all that really matters. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 6:01 pm: | |
Edward,
I actually agree with not touching the belts until the manual says to -- One question, from a cost standpoint if an engine must be removed for something else with one of your clients cars are there some things you would recommend to do since the engine is out? If so, do you think belts on some Ferrari engines fall under this category considering the cost of the belt is only $30 and the engine is already out. Or do you think that even then its best to leave the belts alone? |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 4:13 pm: | |
Frank, I have given up confusing people with the facts, as their minds are already made up. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 2:52 pm: | |
Michael, I have been a private pilot since the mid 1980s. I fly a Cessna 172 for fun. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 2:37 pm: | |
Frank, are you a pilot? Most people don't mention Hobbs meter so casually. I think 52,000 miles would be closer to 1250 hours. Idle time and low rpms (< 2000) probably should be weighted a little less. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 2:32 pm: | |
Frank,
Personally, I probably would not in the earlier 8's if they looked good --so easy to inspect the belts on those. I was actually trying to make the point that with the TR (and your spyder) the engine must come out to change the belts. A much bigger and time consuming job. Lets say at my 15K there was a water pump problem -- I have to drop the engine in the TR so might be wise just to put on new belts at that time. In the older 8's if someone wants they can change the belts easier so its their choice and the money difference is small as the engine is still in the car (way less labor and effort). In the TR there is a big money difference so if I have to drop the engine might as well take care of what I can at that time and restart the belt change clock. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 2:32 pm: | |
Peter, you're correct. Maybe we should all put a Hobbs meter in our Ferraris to measure the hours the engine is running. What would you think 52,500 miles would average in hours ? 1000 hours of engine running between cam belt service sounds about right. On this lastest airline crash I heard it mentioned that the GE engine on the plane required rebuilding every 10,000 hours. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 1:41 pm: | |
I think people should get over this mileage recomendation and base the service on elapsed time. Aircraft base all of their service on hours, why can't automobiles? Single-digit years seems to be pretty safe, as soon as you drive into double-digit years, you're on borrowed time. With the 308/328 series, the ease of access makes it an excuse to change them. |
BobD (Bobd)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 1:37 pm: | |
Brian, here's another question for you.... I'm looking for your opinion. You mention below, "failure occurs during the VERY important warm up phase". Is the warm up phase in a V8 Ferrari any different from the warm up phase in any other car... say an MB or Lexus V8? If so, why?
I always give mine plenty of time to warm up, I'm just interested in your thoughts. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 10:04 am: | |
Michael, why would you change the belts at 15,000 miles when Ferrari itself recommends changing at 52,500 in the manual ? Using your logic why wouldn't you change the cam belts every 10 miles, or 100 miles, or 1,000 miles ? |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 9:50 am: | |
The older 8's are easier because you can change belts with the engine in the car so there is no reason not to change at the 15K intervals if one wants. |
BobD (Bobd)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 9:34 am: | |
So Brian, what's your recommendation for V8 belt changes? What types of cars do you work on? |
Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 6:09 am: | |
Just my 2 cents worth guys:
Overthe past ten years I have had a number of failures and close calls with cam belts on V8 Ferraris.
The cost of replacement is insignificant against the engine repairs sustained, on at least two occassions, customers have purchased cars and forgone any service, subsequently having failure of the timing belt. If you are lucky it is only at slow speed (very often failure occurs during the VERY important warm up phase and at slow speed) and on the rear head. If you have a failure at speed- hello mr. conrod!
In short, failure is difficult to predict, a visual will NOT reveal anything unless the belts really are 8-10 years old and cracked. Also the 12 cyls. are much smoother running and seem way less prone to fail, I have many guys with Boxers with low miles but 17-18 year old belts. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 6:07 pm: | |
I suspect the belts on my car were on there for 12 years (based on the little service history that came with the car).
They looked and felt fine when I took them off, but you never know. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 5:32 pm: | |
You can actually see the hole from under the car. Look at the AC and alternator belt from underneath and right in between there you can see the timing belt. Its a small hole but the belt is visible, barely but you can see it. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 5:27 pm: | |
Have anybody, or is there even a way, to drop the tanks to inspect the belts w/o removing the engine on a TR?
Adam, how do you get to that hole that you mentioned. Can it be reached from the top if removing the fix grill? I like your idea of the flex tube and video camera. If it works for a Doctor, why wouldn't it work for the belts? |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 5:02 pm: | |
This is EXACTLY what I have been preaching since day one. Age is not even so important to the belts as they want you to believe either. I pull belts off every day that have been on for as many as 18 years and they still look great. I do not believe they make a special inferior belt material just for Ferrari. The new belt system I have and others have purchased will probably outlast the engine. |
Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 4:24 pm: | |
On the TR it is so tough to inspect the belts without dropping the motor, then while it is down replace it. If the TR is on a lift there is a tiny hole you can see and feel the belts, and I bet if you had a flex tube with a video camera you may even be able to see the belt condition without having the motor out. Got to look into this, may save us a few bucks. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 4:17 pm: | |
As does my 308. I figure I do all my work, belts cost less than $20 a piece, I might as well replace them at 30K and be happy. It's totally unnecessary as you guys have said though. My belts have like 10-15K on them now and there is absolutely no wear on them. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 3:09 pm: | |
Per the manual my 348 also requires cam belt replacement at 52,500 miles. The recommendation to change them earlier is from the dealers and FNA and not Ferrari Spa. I have heard some say that the 52,500 mile rquirement is for EPA reasons. If the belts required replacement prior to 5 years or 50,000 miles then Ferrari would have to perform it under warranty pursuant to EPA Emission law that requires that all emission related parts be warranted for that time period.(80,000 miles in California) Since the cam belt affects timing, it is an emission related part. But, the people at the Ferrari factory jokenly refer to the 15,000 mile cam belt change as the "Dealership Retirement Act". |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 2:39 pm: | |
No, it is not 328 specific! My Testarossa manual says the same. This is one of those issues that appears to be driven by greed(the dealers), fear(most owners), and skepticism(owners like myself). One thing that appears to have consistency, from what I gather so far after two years of diving deeply into Ferrari, is that Ferraris seem to have more horror stories than any other make ( or should I say, more horror stories, period!). Anyway, for what is worth, I believe that 30K replacements are a joke. In fact, I am more concern with the age of the belt than the mileage, even though the manual does not mention age at all (as I recalll). Perhaps, both should be consider equally, but you rarely see a Ferrari with that high mileage anyway (perhaps the reason the dealers want you to changed it sooner, they need their $5-6K bonus on every car sooner rather than later!). Some owners even opt to have it change at the 15K service. IMHO, the cost of repairs is what ultimately drives many owners to do it sooner than recommended by the manual. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 2:36 pm: | |
Nope, my TR manual says the same thing. The 30K thing while probably safer to some degree is a US service myth (most likely dealer induced). Value wise, if you are going to sell the car with over 25K its easier if the 30K is already done. |
Jim E (Jimpo1)
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 2:10 pm: | |
Today while flipping through my warranty and service book, I read through the services to be completed for the 30k service. (Yes, that page is still in the book, it hasn't been done yet!) Contrary to what I've always thought, it says to INSPECT the camshaft drive belts, not REPLACE them. Everything I've ever read (except my manual, obviously) has said that you replace the belts at 30k. So, I started flipping through the remaining pages, and it specifies another inspection at 45k, and replacement at 52,500. Is this 328 specific? I've been concerned about getting the service done, but now feel less so. And I do understand that the car is 14 years old. But I've always thought that the belt replacement was at 30k. Amazing what you learn when you read a little. |
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