| Author |
Message |
Brent Lachelt (Brent_lachelt)
New member
Username: Brent_lachelt
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 10:25 pm: | |
Terry,
I felt I should share with you my recent experience with buying my 1982 308 GTSI this past December. Let me first say that the car works great now. However, that wasn't the case when I bought it. It had 82,000 miles and $4000 in recent work. When I got this car that was supposed to be in "road worthy condition" it needed a complete top end rebuild, including what was needed most, Valve Guides. Yes in smoked alittle on starting and then stopped after a while, but it drank alot of oil. It also needed several other things to get the car right. Too long to list here. My $20,000 308 gtsi is now a $30,000 car. Just be careful with those valve guides. I hate smoking cars. Good Luck! |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 170
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 9:30 pm: | |
Terry, my engine has been rebuilt by the dealer in the past and I just finished rebuilding it again(not installed yet). A normal engine stand is fine, it bolts right up after you seperate the gearbox from block. I chose to remove it to correct several minor leaks and basically service it because it sat for years. One thing lead to another and I decided to upgrade my pistons and make other modifications for a power increase. Its not a difficult job, its time consuming and the parts are costly, particularly the gaskets and pistons. I wouldnt hesitate to do another one but now I know the expense involved when the labour is zero. I would gladly give any input I can. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 57
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 9:10 pm: | |
Paul,
Im not a professional mechanic by any means, but I have restored Porsches, Jags and other English sportscars. After reviewing the service manuals, parts manual and all the awesome online info / instructions / tips I think doing the topend myself is within reach. I would have to build a special engine stand I guess. I see no way to attach it to my standard stand.
Anyhow, I am not looking for another project! I have 911 all over the garage and basement now.
Has your '79 had a topend? Anyone else out there have an early 308 with over 50K and still have a good topend?
I tell ya... In all the reading I have done on these cars, I got the impression they were fairly reliable. Lots of magazine articles describe them as very solid cars. I seem to get something of a different impression online from actual owners... more like they tend to be maintenance money pits that are worn out at 50K.
I hope I dont find out the latter is more true than the former the hard way! |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 168
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 8:45 pm: | |
Also bear in mind a top end rebuild requires engine/gearbox removal, so be prepared if you decide to just "do one" on whatever 308 you get. |
Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member
Username: Doug308
Post Number: 153
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 7:46 pm: | |
Check all the usage "wear" items like bushings, brakes,struts and tires etc...These things can add up quickly. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 56
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 7:22 pm: | |
David,
I expect the car to leak some around the valve seals, but would hope the guides will be ok for another 30K or so. As long as the seals are not horrible, I can live with a puff of smoke on startup. If they are really bad, I'll pass on the car. Just because the car is 25 years old shouldnt mean it automatically needs a top end?
I would hate to think that any 308 out there that has not had a topend in the last couple of years should be automatically expected to need one. Am I overestimating the build quality and engineering on these cars? |
David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 124
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 6:08 pm: | |
Terry,
I own a 77 308GTB and can tell you that the valve seals should be replaced after 25 years of use.
Not only that, but chances are the valve guides will need replacing soon as well.
Have someone follow you when you drive the car, and have them look for blue smoke when you shift through the gears, also pull the plugs to get an idea of how much oil is passing through.. If you can't find someone to do a leakdown on the car...
Good Luck. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 280
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 6:08 pm: | |
I think a carb 308 driven in moderation can last up to 100K before the top end needs to be rebuilt. It should at least make it to 80K. How much is the inspection rate? |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 55
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 5:18 pm: | |
The car had a complete brake job including rebuilt calipers and new rotors, new tires, rebuilt carbs, new water pump and a new battery less than 300 miles and 2 months ago.
It had a full 45,000 mile service done at Scottsdale Ferrari (then called Cavallino Classics) in 3/99 when belts and a clutch were done. Its gone 5,500 miles since. Prior to that, it was 9 years and 18,000 miles between belt changes.
I read some folks insisting belts should be changed every 2 years regardless of miles.... to me that seems excessive. I would figure on changing the belts on this car in another 2 to 3 years or when they have 25K - 30K miles on them. Its at 46K now, so I sorta figured on driving it another 25K and planning on doing a top end rebuild then. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 132
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 4:47 pm: | |
Terry,
I would defintiely do the leakdown test as well as new compression test to make sure the "puff of smoke" is not a real problem. The carb motors generally go 60-80K before needing the top end done. 180 sounds high in absolute terms but this can vary depending on who is doing the testing, etc. The big thing is that the variance from hole to hole be small. You don't mention when this car was last serviced, but I would look at all the belts and I would particularly look for oil and water leaks. Some oil leaks can be very pricey to fix. Your inspector should be very thorough both looking at and operating the car. 300. now is way better than 3000. later.
Dave |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 54
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 4:14 pm: | |
The '77 308 GTB I am buying contingent on it passing a pre-purchase inspection will be getting the inspection this week. I am not sure on where yet, am talking to a couple of different people.
I am definitely having a compression test done, and maybe a leakdown. The sellers mechanic whom I have spoken with told me that when they did a service 2 months ago a compression test was done and it was around 180 on all 8 cylinders with less than 3% variance. He did not have the exact numbers written down, and I want an independant test anyhow.
What is "good" compression on these cars? Is a leakdown test mandatory in a pre-purchase? The mechanic mentioned that he thinks the valve seals are leaking a bit because the car will puff some smoke on startup after sitting for several days. I actually would expect this unless the car had a fresh top end rebuild. To my way of thinking, a bit of leaking on the valve seals is normal for 46K miles and the car should go another 40K before a top end becomes necessary. Am I off base here? If the compression is excellent, is a leakdown necessary?
What else in particular do I need to have inspected. I am certainly no huge expert on 308's though I have read most of the online buying guides and such. In the opinion of folks here who work on them or have had issues.... whats are the critical things?
Thanks for the help! I really like this car in photos and video, but if its not what I want mechanically I have no problem waiting for a better car to come along. At $26,500 I also feel the car should be in top mechanical and cosmetic condition.
Terry |