| Author |
Message |
chris cummings (Entelechy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 8:37 pm: | |
Thanks for all the input guys - I've been away for the holidays and didn't get a chance to check the posts until now. I didn't end up buying this car, but was curious about the start-up as it was the first "QV" 308 I'd test driven. Very glad to hear that's not normal.
Best,
~Chris |
ctk (Ctk)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2001 - 10:11 am: | |
Starting problems if fuel related usually leads to two things. First a blocked fuel filter that makes you make crazy adjustments to compensate for a flaw in performance, upsetting the settings or eventually, a loss of vacuum or compression in the engine. The first is easy to fix, replace fuel filters regularly and have a tune up. The second is more dodgy. If you have difficult cold starts or uneven warm up idling try this test. Remove the rubber bellow from the intake, start the engine, gently press down slightly on the sensor plate, if the engine runs smoothly, the WUR needs adjustment to compensate for wear. If your engine cranks when cold but will not start, it is usually a fuel pressure problem. Same trick, leave ignition on and press sensor plate down, it will energise the fuel pump and pressurise system, engine will now start. Have Fun! |
Peter Connolly (Mondial_32_Aus)
| | Posted on Friday, November 23, 2001 - 10:34 pm: | |
My 87 Mondial 3.2 fires instantly when cold but needs the foot to the floor when hot, it starts after about 2-3 revs when hot and foot to floor. I consider this to be normal.
One of my fellow Mondial 3.2 owners in Australia (Joe Baker [email protected] has developed a procedure for hot starting without the foot on the accellerator which he swears by, it is as follows:
Adjust auxillary air valve by removing, strap or sticky tape temp sensor to body of air valve and somehow heat whole unit to 16 Degrees C, looking thru the aperture against the arrow direction, set to 5.5 mm air hole. Car will then start instantly hot or warm.
To adjust tuning, Disconnect O2 sensor ( green wire goes to cat converter) Wind big brass nut in on the large air tube intake., set base idle by scew on butterfly, adjust Co reaging by allen key, then adjust idle to 1000 rpm by big brass nut, wind out.
PC |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 11:09 pm: | |
Stu,
The hot start problem I had used to be much worse. My mechanic looked at it and found something wrong with the wiring. I am not sure what it was. Now I still have to hold the pedal when hot but it only takes a second or two to catch. It really causes me no problems so I am fine with it. |
stu cordova (Balataboy)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 1:03 pm: | |
Fred,
I have the same issue. Mine starts right up when cold, but when hot it can take 5-10 seconds of straight cranking. I've just kinda learned to live with that. One time I floored the pedal when hot and it did start quicker, but I didn't like the way that felt, so I don't do it anymore -I just wait until it starts on it's own. For the record, I just did a complete 30k, (including replacing the fuel pump and accumulator) but it didn't help this particular issue. |
Craig Hess (Crag)
| | Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 7:03 am: | |
I recently purchased a 1985 308 GTS QV. The car had a cold start problem, and the owner had it fixed. The problem was with with the crank shaft position sensor. As stated in one of the other posts, there are several sensors/components that could cause the problem in a fuel injected engine. Chances are the problem is not too serious, but I wouldn't recommend purchasing any Ferrari without having it checked out by a reputable shop. It will cost you between $300 and $600, but it's worth it. Once you know what issues the car has, you're in a better position to negotiate or walk away. Good Luck. |
Octavio Mestre (Alfab4308)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 1:37 pm: | |
I recently had a problem with my alfa where it would be hard to start if I did not accelerate when I started the car. It turned out to be a crack in an air hose that was letting extra air into the system. I replaced all the air hoses for under $20.
That said, however, you would ususally expect someone selling a car to take care of minor things which could prompt a buyer to ask for a discount. I think this may say something about the way the car was maintained. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 1:09 pm: | |
It sounds like a fuel problem. I think maybe accumulator is shot (or less likely the fuel pump) and is not keeping enough pressure in the engine when turned off (leaking out psi), so it has to build up pressure before it can start again. The flooring the car is opening up the butterfly all the way, sounds like too much gas is being injected and more air is needed for it not to flood. I wouldn't hold this against the car if everything else is in good condition. This could warrant a decent discount and could be an easy fix ($100) which would be a nice savings. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:01 pm: | |
I have an 83qv and when it is cold it starts right up. When it is hot I push the pedal to the floor and it fires up no problem. But I do push the pedal down when it is hot. |
David Harris (Dakharris)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 11:02 am: | |
Chris stated, "I noticed he stomped the gas pedal to the floor while he kept the key cranked." That is not a normal procedure. Anyone leaving the car in that condition, let alone trying to pass it off as normal, is not committed to the maintenance of his vehicle. I stand by my observation. |
Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 8:29 am: | |
Chris, that is NOT normal. I have a '84 308 QV and mine has always started up within a second or two of turning the key regardless of the engine being hot or cold or whether the car has sat for a week. Also, the owners manual says NOT to use the accelerator pedal when starting the car. I agree with Steve that trying to track down and fix the gremlin sounds like a $3K discount. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 6:57 pm: | |
My mechanic and I have statement we use about my airplane. "Any part, new or used, is excellent until it fails." Be it 200 hours, 2000 hours, or 1 hour. It was great for the time it ran BUT no one can tell how long. I agree with Edward, its the overall picture, not just a one drive experience. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 6:07 pm: | |
Anything can happen at any time to a car. Just because something breaks does not necessarily mean it is not maintained well. |
David Harris (Dakharris)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 5:50 pm: | |
I would consider this to be more of an indication of the overall maintenance of the car by its owner. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 5:05 pm: | |
chris c. -- Not "normal", and not a good sign (but not a horrible sign either). Usually with a modern injected engine you're not supposed to touch the accelerator pedal at all either during cold or warm start-up (and the engine should fire after, at most, two or maybe max three tries cranking for few seconds each time when cold, and when warm it should go on the first crank after just a few seconds or less). Some sensor(s), valve(s), or ECU is/are not working properly -- sounds like a ~$3K discount on the price should be in the right ballpark to get it sorted out IMHO/experience (obtained chasing some gremlins around my TRs KE-Jetronic system). |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 5:01 pm: | |
Your description is a little vague. If you turn the key and the engine spins over but does not start then there is more than likely a fuel pressure related problem. Ferrari engines on injected 308s have to spin over at least one revolution for the ignition pickups to syncronize the ignition to know when to fire. If you turn the key and the engine does not spin over then there is a problem with the starter, battery or wiring. Either way there is a problem with that car. |
Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 4:49 pm: | |
I don't have a QV but do have a GTSi injected predasessor to the QV. No matter how long it has sat, sometime 2 weeks or more, mine just fires right up and purrs....hot or cold, same ... |
chris cummings (Entelechy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2001 - 4:34 pm: | |
One last question from a recent test drive - when attempting to start the car for the first time, it seemed dead. I turned the key all the way and nothing. After 3-4 attempts, I started to get some sputtering. Between attempts I gave the car some time to reset. Finally, it came to life after a 10 second period of trying to catch.
When the owner took me out later and started it up (it had just been driven for 20 minutes not long before) I noticed he stomped the gas pedal to the floor while he kept the key cranked. It took a long sustained combo of the two before it finally fired up after 10 seconds or so. Is this normal for the 308 QV's? Is there a special technique?
Thanks,
~Chris |
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