| Author |
Message |
bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 321
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 4:56 am: | |
dr ibrahim
i have now learned to use the american express card for ferrari repairs and hotel accomendations if not satisfied with repairs,and the people are not to your liking, call amex,they are great and professional people and they will credit your dispute and investigate..... |
Madferraristi (Madferraristi)
New member
Username: Madferraristi
Post Number: 22
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 1:24 am: | |
I pulled every plug and connector and cleaned all contacts. Re-verified spark, ouch. I'll take three Stromberg 97's or a coupla Holleys anyday.
To me, the problem has all of the symptoms of a massive vacuum leak. On this premise I removed every visible vacuum hose and capped off the fittings. Bummer, didn't help one damn bit. Then I saw two devices I recognized from an aftermarket injection system I had on a turbocharged small block, the two auxilliary air valves. I verified that they were functioning correctly.
Since none of this had made an improvement, I put all of the vacuum hoses back in place.
For some reason I just had to try it again, fired right up--AWSHIT. Took it for a spin, ran like a raped ape. Tried it again a few days later, same result.
None of the hose connections appeared loose when I took them off, so what changed?
If I could figure this one out, maybe I'd know the meaning of life too.
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Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 622
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 3:52 pm: | |
Have you solved the problem if so what was it?
-Ben
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Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Member
Username: Icnsltmfg
Post Number: 329
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 8:03 pm: | |
I recently replaced a few of those relay's under the right rear wing. The pretty much cleared up my hesitation problem. |
dr. ibrahim m. ibrahim (Coachi)
New member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 11:21 am: | |
you're right, I should not have paid them; but when I went to pick up the car it was running (it always started when hot) and I did not have two days to wait for it to get cold again.. they did give me a 300 dollar credit in merchandise, but all in all, I was extremely disappointed in their treatment. They replaced my platinum plugs right after I had just replaced them, and didn't even keep the ones they took out... and I told them I had replaced the plugs.. they don't listen....once you pay someone, and you find out a few days later (the car had to cool down again) that it was not working, for the second time... oh well, live and learn with ferrari ripoffs |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1350
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 10:42 am: | |
Well I'll be Damned if I would have paid them if they didn't fix the problem. I do not charge if I cannot fix something, but I have never had anything I couldn't fix either. |
dr. ibrahim m. ibrahim (Coachi)
New member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2002 - 10:01 am: | |
This may not help at all, in this case, but I had a horrific experience getting my testarossa 1986 model started when cold. When starter fluid was sprayed into the intake, it would start and as long as one would continue to spray the fluid it would run. Once hot, it would start and run perfectly; obviously a cold start mechanism problem. I shipped the car to Atlanta (from SC) and after two trys and bunches of money, lots of replaced parts, the problem remained. I finally shipped the car ten hours to Tampa, and a relay under the right back fender was the culprit. $50 for a relay, and thousands for misdiagnosis, shipping etc... what a waste. The Porsche mechanic in Tampa fixed the problem in less than one hour !!!! Imagine, my ferrari dealer had no clue. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 710
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 10, 2002 - 9:37 am: | |
Madferraristi -- what are your TR technical documentation resources? -- OM, WSM, SPC, wiring diagram, diagnosis sheets? Is it a US version with KE-Jetronic or something else, and what year? If it is KE, there are some fairly simple resistance checks that you can do at the (unplugged) injection ECUs to check things like the throttle microswitch operation and the coolant temperature sensors, but you might want to do some other things first like:
1. swapping coils and cleaning up their various connections -- have you verified a reasonable spark pattern on both banks even if running poorly?
and
2. verifying the fuel pressure. You mentioned that you unplugged the cold start injectors with no effect, but after some cranking attempts (and engine off) if you crack the fuel lines to the cold start injectors you should be able to verify that the fuel system is pressurized even if you don't have a gauge (careful with the fuel spray that will leak out).
PS Did you used to live in La Mirada? |
Madferraristi (Madferraristi)
New member
Username: Madferraristi
Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 10, 2002 - 9:24 am: | |
After finding the corroded caps, I thoroughly cleaned, inspected and tested the entire ignition system. Their integrity was verified when I test drove it after finally getting it running the first time.
According to my Bosch book, there are seven possible items to check for a cold start problem. 1. insufficient fuel pressure, 2. sticking airflow sensor, 3. sticking auxilliary air valve, 4. sticking cold start injector, 5. defective thermo time switch, 6. sticking control plunger, 7. restricted injectors.
I am hoping for guidance as to which element might be the most suspect.
I appreciate your input, I'll check the switch first. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 607
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 10, 2002 - 12:34 am: | |
Mike -
I'll take the first stab, but I'm not sure I have a solution. In theory the TR fuel pumps deliver 6 bar (~90 PSI) of fuel pressure upon startup (yes EACH startup - regardless of temperature). This is to compensate for the fuel that was in the system/chamber thay may have evaporated during any "sitting" time. So any repeated starting attemps will produce the "rich" or flooded smell after only 2-3 attempts.
20 restarts is ALOT. Have you confirmed spark to each bank and then to each cylinder? Checked for Spark leakage/arcing? Not that this would be your problem, but if you did have corroded distributors, there could be more there, and so far everything I've mentioned is easy to check.
Lasty the only other sensor I can think of that may be at fault is the Throttle Control Microswitch, basically a sensor for throttle position. There is only one of these on the throttle body near the air intake plates.
And off the top of my head I don't recall the check for that unit (nor the actual part number)...I'l let someone else make a suggestion before I try to dig any further.
Hope that helps.
-Ben |
Madferraristi (Madferraristi)
New member
Username: Madferraristi
Post Number: 20
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 10:28 pm: | |
My TR started running very poorly on a short trip, it bucked and missed terribly at steady throttle but smoothed out, albeit with no power under acceleration.
I found the distributors to be horribly corroded.
I cleaned them and then when I tried to start
it, it would only barely tick over then die. Finally after about 20 restarts, each time it would run a little longer, I got it up to 2000 and warmed it up. Took it out and it ran fine.
Couple of days later, tried to start it with identical result, except this time it wouldn't smooth out so I didn't take it out.
During starting attempts it smells as if it is flooded. Unplugged the cold start injectors, didn't help.
The statup/cold run problem is obviously temperature related. Which sensor(s) do I need to check, how? Or?????? |
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