| Author | Message | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1711 Registered: 12-2000 |
The ring-nut design is good for clearance (is low-profile), but I too hate this stupid notch method. Ring-nuts are used in other devices/machinery, but have a much proper locking method, of the shaft having a key-way, and a lock washer keyed to it, the washer having the tab(s) bent over into the ring-nut slot, to lock it in place (similar to the system used on the camshaft pulleys) | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2152 Registered: 2-2001 |
You got that right Verell. That set up is a pain in the ass. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2001 |
Stacy, I used a punch with about a 1/8" dia blunt pointed tip. Gave it a couple of taps with a 1lb ball pein hammer. If you drive the indentation all the way to the bottom of the groove, the edges of the groove will cut a notch out of the nut's lip. I don't try to jam the nut lip super flush into the axle groove. Just make a good indentation about 1/2 or 2/3 of the way to the bottom to make certain it's going to have to get un-dented before the nut will turn, but the edges of the groove aren't cutting very far into the lip. That way I can get something under the lip if I ever have to remove the nut(I did, sigh). BTW, I pried it up by tapping one of the points of the open end of a Craftsman 8mm combination wrench into the groove. It fit nicely the width of the groove. (Those little wrenches are nice & tough... Also cheap..) Once I had the wrench tip in a ways, I just pried the dent out until I could rotate the nut. When I retightened things, the ednt lined up with the groove agaon, so I just dented the lip down again in the same place. ANYONE KNOW OF SOME OTHER VEHICLE THAT USES THE SAME AXLE NUT AS A 308? The parts stores around here can only look up parts by application(sigh). Call me old-fashioned, but I still prefer crown nuts with a cotter pin thru them & the axle. These throw-away nuts are a pain if you're 45 minuates away from a supplier. | ||
| stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
New member Username: Stacy Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2001 |
Verell, What tools/technique did you use to crimp the hub nut? A cold chisel or punch or something like that? | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2001 |
SuperGlue is SUPER for SHIMS!!! The superglue trick worked great. The shims stayed on the caliper.The whole bearing replacement job for one wheel took all of 3 hours! A couple of tricks: - Have a piece of heavy coat hanger or other wire to support the caliper once it's removed so it isn't dangling by the brake line. - Break the caliper bolts loose with a 19mm box wrench end. Back the upper bolt out until it presses against the s-shaped metal brake line. (!#$@# why didn't they make the S large enough so you could get a socket onto the @#$# bolt!!!). Also, back the bottom bolt out until only a few threads are holding it in place. - You can remove the caliper without disconnecting the brake lines if you: pull the cotter-pin out of, & remove the upper ball joint crown nut holding the brake line bracket. My ball joint nicely popped itself up & out of the way. The entire knuckle will be loose at the top, so be prepared to support it enough to keep pressure off of the brake line while doing the following: - Now, that the brake line bracket isn't supporting the line, you can pivot the S-shaped brake line out of the way of the upper bolt by very slightly loosening the caliper fitting so that the line will pivot under hand pressure, but won't leak fluid or air. - Remove the upper caliper bolt. Pivot the brake line away from the caliper to let the bolt back out. Also, spring the line a bit to clear the bolt head. You may have to very slightly change the bends of the S to clear the bolt. Be very careful here that you don't crimp the line. = Once the upper bolt is out, back out the lower bolt & slide the caliper off of the rotor. Don't forget to use the bolts, or your hands to catch the shim washers the bolts are holding in place between the caliper & the hub. - Remove rotor, replace bearings, re-install rotor. - Once the bearings & seal are changed, the rotor replaced, & the shims glued to the caliper, then caliper re-assembly is pretty much the reverse of the above. Oh, yes, remember to give the caliper bolt ends & ball joint end & taper a thin coating of anti-sieze compound. -Start by slipping the caliper bolts in & finger tightening them a turn or two so they'll hold the caliper into place. - Next, lean on the upper wishbone in order to get the ball joint into place. While doing this, reinstall the the brake line bracket over the ball joint threaded end & tighten the nut a turn or two. - Tighten the upper & lower caliper bolts, again slipping the upper caliper bolt past the brake line S. You can use a socket & torque wrench to torque down the lower caliper bolt (70 ft-lb, or 50 ft-lb if caliper has a heli-coil). If you don't have a 19mm crows-foot for the torque wrench, then you'll have to use a wrench with a box end & torque the upper bolt by feel. - Tighten, torque, & cotter-pin the ball joint nut. - Tighten the brake line fitting previously loostened. - Torque the hub nut, adjust axial play & dent the nut's flange into the axle grooves. If the brakes feel at all spongy or have too much travel, then bleed them. Some air probably managed to get into the system when you loostened the brake line. Hope this helps. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 51 Registered: 5-2001 |
BRAKE CALIPER SHIM WASHER TIPS ------------------------------ (Correction/clarification of my 5-Feb 2002 post below). I finally got around replacing my driver side wheel bearings this weekend. The caliper shims are two pairs of thin washers (one ~0.040", one ~0.010"), not C-shims as I stated in my earlier post. A thin/thinner shim pair is held in place by each of the caliper mounting bolts. When removing the caliper, carefully unscrew the bolts the last turn or two by hand. When the bolts feel free, press them back in as far as they'll go. With some luck they'll be far enough in so that the shim washers will be held by the forst thread or 2 of each bolt. I knew they were there this time & a pair still took a dive under my workbench(sigh). Anyway, I think I've solved getting the !#$# shims to stay in place while replacing the caliper: SUPERGLUE TO THE RESCUE!!! -------------------------- 1)Thoroughly clean the caliper mounting area & the shims with brake cleaner & dry them off. 2)Super glue the shim washers to each other & to the caliper: a)Insert a mounting bolt back thru the caliper so it will align the shims on the bolt hole. b)Put 3 small drops of super glue equally spaced around the caliper mounting area, Do the same with one side of the thinner shim. c)Working quickly, drop the thinner shim glue side up over the bolt & down onto the glue on the caliper. Then drop the thicker shim down onto the glue side of the thinner shim. d)Use a deep socket to press the shims down while the glue sets. The idea is to get the glue pressed super thin before is can set up, then keep it that way till it cures. I tried prying the shims off of the caliper with a fingernail & they wouldn't come off. I think they'll stay in place during reassembly w/o causing any more problems. I expect to finish the job this weekend, will let you know how it went. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1656 Registered: 12-2000 |
The timing-tensioning pulleys I purchased from Superformance had the bearings retained by an edge rolled in. My original pulleys did not have this. I kept them (for the same reason you mentioned Verell).  So far the best bet is Nick's pulleys which have the bearings held in by internal snap rings (I'm not sure, but I think Ed G's timing belt system uses this as well?) | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
New member Username: Verell Post Number: 50 Registered: 5-2001 |
Last spring when my 308's passenger wheel started moaning, I bought front bearings from a local auto parts store for something like $15 for an inner-outer pair. Gotta be one of the few standard parts on the car. (Was about to say that $66/wheel sounded way too high when I noticed Jeff was talking about REAR wheel bearings...) However, sometimes you just can't find a standard part to use. I've just bought a pair of cam belt idler pulleys for about $90 each(sigh). They aren't anything but a pair of bearings press fitted into a steel sleeve. Actually, the bearings may not be a press fit, it looks like just the retainer rings around them are pressed in. I'm going to hold onto my original idlers. If I ever need a pair again, I'm going to see if I can't press the old bearings out & rebuild them. | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Junior Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2001 |
Wow, a thread from the past. As timing would have it, the car arrives Tuesday. I'll definitely drive it for a few days then attack the front bearings. Thanks everyone for thier advice and experiences. That's what makes this site the best on the net. | ||
| Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
Junior Member Username: Jbk Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2001 |
Replacing the rear wheel bearings on my 77. Inner - SKF 62207-2RS1 $30.68 ea from local brg distributor. Outer - SKF 62208-2RS1 $36.51 ea Dust seals from TRutlands. The outer dust seal was packed with grease apparently to capture the dust that gets past the lip. | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
|
Yes, be watchful for the spacer washers between the caliper and hub. I didn't realize they were there while removing the caliper. Of course, I reinstalled them incorrectly the first time, with the inner brake pad rubbing against the rotor. I too think this was the hardest part of replacing my 77 308GTB front bearings. Also replaced the brake hoses while I was at it, they weren't the easiest to get at. You will definitely want to use some penetrating fluid to loosen the connections.... | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
|
I had to replace my left front bearings last year & got help from the FerrariList. Here's the bottom line: Ric Rainbolt's web site has a great bearing cross-reference for Ferraris: http://www.rainbolt.com/ferrari/bearings.html SUMMARY: 308 front bearings Outer: Bearing: LM11949 Race: LM11910 Inner: Bearing: LM67048 Race: LM67010 The above are industry standard numbers. Any auto parts store should have them, often as a set. If you buy them at NAPA, the inner set is BR6, the outer set is BR2. Auto Zone calls them BS6 & BS2 I believe. ADJUSTING BEARING PRELOAD: According to page F-8 of the 308GT4 manual, From http://ferrari.stevejenkins.com/ Tighten to 2.5 kgm torque while rotating the hub in both directions. Loosen it completely, then tighten to 1.5 kgm torque ( 2.5 kgm = 18 ftlb, 1.5 = 11 ftlb) Axial play should be as near as possible to .06 mm, not less, maximum .1 mm Manual page has diagram of how to measure axial play. Be careful when removing the brake caliper, there are a couple of C-shaped shims between the caliper & the hub that will stick to something, then fall off & you won't know where they come from/go (ask me how i know). They're also a bear to keep in place while re-installing the caliper. I spent more time fighting with the brake caliper than the entire rest of the bearing job. | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
|
John, yes, I could use the part numbers. I'll be shipping my car to FL in the next few weeks, but once there, I'll have time on my hands and will want to do the repacking. Thank you for your help! | ||
| John L. Rivers (Rivee)
|
Greg, since reading your post, and since I last posted, I got to thinking about my 308's front wheel bearings, and glad I am that I checked them. They were toast!! The outer ones disinegrated when I removed the washer and nut. Luckily the hubs were OK. I replaced all the front bearings and seals. Went to Kragen's auto parts (Central California) and cross referenced them. The same exact bearings cost $5.xx for the outer ones and $7.xx for the inners. Couldn't believe the prices!! If you need the #'s let me know. John | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
|
Thanks John. When I had the car up on stands, there was no play in the rear wheels...they felt solid. I'll probably do a repacking on the front however just for general maintenance. Thanks! | ||
| John L. Rivers (Rivee)
|
Greg, I just had the right side rear bearings and seals replaced. I was also going to replace the left side but according to my certified Ferrari mechanic they don't need replacing unless you hear noises from them or they have play in them. Also they are NOT servicable. He also replaced the crimp nut as well. Total cost with me taking the hub into him = $331.00 (inner & outer bearings, seals, crimp nut, glass beading hub) | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
|
When I get some time after the move south, I'll probably repack the front and check for any top-to-bottom & side-to-side play. This is such an awesome site! Thanks again everyone. | ||
| Paul Prideaux (Paul355c)
|
Greg, you have received some great advise here. I'm in agreement that the front wheel bearings are no more sophisticated than the wheel bearings on the 1968 Mustang I had in high school. The only diference was the Ford had a cotter pin and the F-car has a crimpable nut. Same principle. Unless you have money to burn, I would inspect the back bearings with the standard top-to-bottom free-play check (with the car is off the ground) and leave them alone if ok. You can repack the fronts if you want. I can tell you about my experience doing one of these. Good luck. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
|
What is the procedure for this? I am not sure if I know what a wheel bearing looks like. Any info would be appreciated. | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
|
Thank you everyone. I was going to have this service done just to keep everything in great shape. This could probably wait until mid-year. For now, I think I'll focus on fixing the waterpump-leak problem. Thanks to everyone for their insight and suggestions, it's very much appreciated! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Greg, Steve makes a good point here. I thought it was just the front bearings you were talking about. As Steve mentioned the rear is another story. It still seems a bit high though. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
|
Greg -- I'd recommend that you do replace (not repack) the rear wheel bearings -- too much labor involved to get to these (and I think they are "sealed" ball bearings so repacking is not as simple as the unsealed tapered roller fronts), but at the front I'd agree with magoo that repacking is an option if the bearings/raceways are in good shape (but replacement shouldn't be a big cost issue either as new front bearings/raceways should be <$100). If the $1K quote is the drop-off/pick-up price to replace both the front and rear bearings that's not too bad IMHO -- in the early 90s I pulled the rear uprights off myself and still paid $500~$600 for new rear bearings/seals/labor to rebuild. | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
|
I was going to have both the front and rears repacked. The service technician claims that both would require replacement instead. I may just try this with my own two hands...I've got nothing else to do on these winter weekends! | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Fronts or rears Greg? Either one can be repacked, rears are a little more difficult to access/work on. I think the Mondial was the only one that used some funky cartridge bearings (maybe another model. The 308 is basic and straight-forward). | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Greg, My response to that is Bulls--t. Unless you have bearing gualding which has ruined the race in the rotors. | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
|
Can the wheel bearings for a 1984 Euro 308 be repacked or do they need to be replaced? My local dealership insists they can only be replaced. Labor and parts are being quoted at roughly $1K. Thoughts or experiences anyone? |