| Author | Message | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Hey, Nick if you are watching, What's Up with the Euro Bumper Conversion? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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OOOPS!!! Richelson, try this: http://home.att.net/~ferrari/308faq1.htm | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Sorry Richelson, I took it for granted that it was still online. It was basically a site dedicated to the 308, called "Ferrari 308 FAQ". It was compiled from the Ferrarilist archives and was VERY helpful. Everything was on there. Too bad. I should find out if its going to come back.... | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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Thanks Peter, I tried the Ferrari at home link and it didn't come up. I am glad to hear that quite a few have done the clutch successfully. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Has Nick gotten any farther with his Euro Bumper conversion kit? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Richelson, lots of us here have done clutches before and posted photos and instructions, do a Keyword Search. For a written procedure: http://www.expensivecar.com/ And/or: http://home.att.net/~ferrari/index.htm The only difficult part is that f---ing little snap-ring on the imput shaft. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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Bret that would be great. I am very anxious to see how difficult it is to do a clutch on a 308. I have been wanting to know how to perform this procedure for sometime now. Thanks. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Richelson, the QV supplemental manual basically has the same info as the Mondial 8 quattrovalvole manual. It must have a couple more things in it as the front of the Mondial 8 manual calls for it to be used in conjunction with it for the 308QV. I haven't looked at them enough to find the additional info yet though. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Yeah I will, unfortunately tonight I'm gonna have to go back to school. I'm waiting for it to be late enough to call Nick (11:30 EST right now so I'm gonna call soon) and get everything straightened out. I'm gonna try and come home every second weekend at least to work on it. I realize that I'm gonna have to do the whole shabang here and take it all apart. Doesn't make sense to not do it all now (seals, check everything, heater hoses, check clutch condition etc) while it's out. Everytime I get to a new step I'll post some pics. Next will be after the transfer case and clutch housing are off I guess. | ||
| Peter Connolly (Mondial_32_Aus)
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Brett Cool project! Keep the posts and pictures coming, great archival info for future engine pulls. Has nick got any further with his bolt on 308 turbo kit? (Hint, hint!) PC | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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Thanks for the info on Baum tools. This is a great site. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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Ferrari specialty tools including wrench to remove head bolts. http://www.baumtools.com/english/index.cfm | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I would've killed to be able to take them off with an air wrench and a breaker bar. Damn. They came off, just took a loooonnnngggg time. Nick's gonna take care of all the cam stuff. I'm sending him the heads still together. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Got it Brian. In Bret's words, pretty retarded. Looks like any QV Ferrari is off of my wish-list because of that. My hat's off to you Bret. Brave guy. | ||
| Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
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The head casting itself is the actual thing in the way. When you make the tool, it has to have a very thin profile to work or it binds on the casting as the nut comes up. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Brian, thanks for pointing out the stud location difference on the QV heads. In that instance, why not remove the cams for better access? You would have to anyways for cleaning (and for modifications in Bret's case). | ||
| Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
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The 4 valve heads have different stud pattern. this places the studs under the cams, hence the wrench bending exercise. you will have to weld a square fitting on for torqueing back the heads, allow for the offset changing the real torque. Also, remember do not spin the motor until fixing down the sleeves, you could damage the seals and get a water leak upon reassembly. You are a brave man, but I did my first (a Mondial QV) on a garage floor, welded the hole in the block etc., etc.. Ran great after! | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Sorry for my previous posting Bret (regarding head stuck-ness) in your "Heads off" post. I'm just wondering why you didn't use a socket and breaker-bar to undo the head nuts? I cracked it loose with that, then the socket on a speed wrench to remove (not an impact, but those U-shaped things with the twirly end so you crank it to spin fast... Huh? I know, it doesn't make sense to me either, but you know what I'm talking about). Easy. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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Bret, what is the QV supplemental manual? Is it more detailed than the workshop manual. I noticed that the workshop manual didn't discuss the Bosch system. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I have a whole bunch of manuals. There are a lot of torque specs in them (in particular the QV manual and QV supplemental manual). So I figure I should have them all, if not I'll found out either from the guys here, Algar Ferrari, or Nick. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Those head bolts are retarded compared to a normal engine. We had to make up two wrenches to get them loose. Surprisinly they weren't really stuck after getting the bolts off. We had to loosen up the bolt, then wedge the head up a little, then loosen it up some more, until we could get it off.  | ||
| joe saldana (Ironjoe)
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To Brett Im proud of you, see how simple it really is just 2 motorcycle motors put together,be extra careful with them heads,color coded tie wraps help parts match,n timing is evrything at the end,You are now a Jedi Warrior its in your blood..... | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Last semester I took an engine rebuild class at the local community college and breaking an engine down was relatively easy. However, measuring everything to check if within tolerance and then all the torque specs and weird processes like... "torque to 30 ft. lbs and then 90 degrees" became the tricky part. My question is do you have all these specs? We used Mitchell On Demand, but Ferrari isn't in there. Does the regular 308 Maintenance Manual include all this detailed information? Amazing project Bret, I can't wait until I can do the same thing. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
The heads do seem difficult to get off, or at least the bolts, I'll use wooden wedges to get the heads loose I presume. My dad made up a wrench that we had laying around so that it would fit. We knew it was kind of weak (not a very thick wrench but all we had laying around other than my dad's really good sets which he didn't want to break up obviously). Needless to say after bending it numerous times and rewelding it stiffer, eventually the wrench head cracked. I picked up a pretty tough wrench at Sears yesterday (15mm) so he's gonna bend it while I take off the rest of the cooling system now. We got one of the nuts loose (acorn nuts that sit under the cams) before the other wrench cracked. It's stupid really. Everybody always torques the hell out of head bolts, yet they want you to break it loose with a box end wrench. I guess it works eventually, but compared to a normal set up it's retarded. I came to the conclusion that the Germans and Italians both have excellent ideas automotively. The Germans just execute them better. I think the Italians get a little ahead of themselves at times. The Americans still have the best set up though hands down. Don't get me wrong, I love Ferrari and do enjoy working on the Fcar, it's just with all this time turning wrenches I have to think about something. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
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Bret Great pics! Takes a lot of guts to take on a project of this size. Way to go! Looking forward to checking your progress. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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Bret, are the heads very difficult to get off? Do they not just slide off after you unbolt them? Thanks. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Yeah I labeled a lot of stuff and made a log with the corresponding description, location, etc. I also got a box of those ziploc sandwich bags (the small ones) and wrote on them with a sharpie. So I have a bag with destra valve cover, destra rotor, engine mounts, differential, etc. It's easy to see what goes where when you break it a part like that. I disconnected the clutch right at the arm where the cable meets it (a little pin holds the cable to the lever back by the clutch housing, real easy to do). Got the valve covers off and now my dad is making up the special wrench to remove the heads (he's better with a torch and welding and all) so I'm just waiting for that and then we'll try and get off the heads.  | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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The engine is looking great. Did you label the bolts to know where they go? How do you disconnect the clutch? At the cable or ?. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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 I'll take your word for it though... I'll keep waiting... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Peter, you should take Fred's optimistic view. He knows it is still in the mail and only late because of the holiday rush. Don't be a pessimist just stay home and wait for the postman. You know the old saying." Good things come to those who wait." Don't forget the other old saying, "Wait,Weight, broke the wagon down." What the hell does that mean? I guess take your pick. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Yeah, I don't get it Magoo, you promised me the Rolex for Christmas and I haven't received it yet and now you're giving me another one? At least I got Fred beat as I have TWO Rolex's now, well.... waiting for them at least....  Bret, that's some novel methods you're using there. Be aware you may have still a bit of coolant in the heads when you pull them from the block, it'll run down the oil-way drains and into the sump, also into the bores, so clean thoroughly immediately. I'm sure you were still going to drop the pan and clean out the oil crud anyways. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
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Hey I'm still waiting for my Rolex. I am sure it is just taking a bit longer with all of the holiday mail. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Actually Peter I just did that to see who would be the first to comment. YOU WIN! You are going to receive another Rolex watch. Just wait for the postman. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Yeah the damn Ferrari bug bit me. I would like to see my uncle (actually cousin but a lot older) that used to buy all the Ferraris back in the day. I haven't seen him in a long time and he would love to see someone in the family with a Ferrari again. Maybe when all this is done would be a good time to see him again. My dad doesn't pay for anything Ferrari related, I bought it so I have to pay for all the parts and all (he helps me work on it though which is priceless). I have noticed that with me paying the bill he seems to have no problem encouraging me in spending. I'm gonna have the heads done by Nick and put in the test pipe as well as krank vent that I have sitting on the work bench. Now my dad's talking electronic ignition and other stuff, damn parents, it's tough keeping him inline. Peter that's music to my ears about retorquing. I degreased the engine, used a come-a-long attached to the jeep to pull it out the door while hanging from the chain block, so as not to degrease inside and get everything disgusting. It was an interesting site to say the least.  Just about all my friends are back at school now, I have nothing to do after going out to dinner and it's 10pm, sounds like a good time to start trying to take off the heads. I figure I might as well. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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P.S. Bret, The heads won't need any re-torquing. I haven't re-torqued anything except the wheels. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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I don't see anything wrong with this. I always took my stuff apart to see how they worked. With the Ferrari it was to repair the gross leaks, but even then, if it were less, I still would've stripped it down. You know your machine best this way. Besides, its fun Hey Magoo, stop the double posts! Must be your AOL acting up again. LOL. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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OOPs, Sorry, double print and I never hit twice. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Bret back some time ago you talked about buying a Vette or a Beamer and selling the Ferrari. At that time I told you we would see you back in a Ferrari because it was in your blood. I can see the love of Ferrari never left you and here you are still with the Ferrari. Good choice in my opinion. Best of luck, Magoo | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Bret back some time ago you talked about buying a Vette or a Beamer and selling the Ferrari. At that time I told you we would see you back in a Ferrari because it was in your blood. I can see the love of Ferrari never left you and here you are still with the Ferrari. Good choice in my opinion. Best of luck, Magoo | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Hey are those chains 18kt. gold or is that just rust? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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I see a Peter GT4 overhaul coming out of this. Just kidding Peter and Bret. It takes balls to tackle this kind of a job, I know I have done it before but not on a Ferrari. I take my hat off to both of you. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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Great work. Thanks for the pics and the narration. How difficult was what you have accomplished so far? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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The first thing I did today was take off the plenum and intake, which after realizing that the intake manifold was two pieces became much easier. Then we made up lift tabs.  Then I hooked everything up and started pulling it out a little while breaking loose the mounts from the frame and then taking the mounts off the engine once it was up a little. Then we pulled out the sinistra header and finished disconnecting a couple sensors.    Once everything was broken loose the engine came out pretty easily, it was just getting it loose that took so much time. Tomorrow we're gonna make a stand for it to work on first. I think while the engine is out I might as well repaint the engine compartment as well as anything else that can/should be done because I'm not too crazy about the idea of taking it back out anytime soon.   It wound up taking quite a while to do when all was said and done. A lot of the things weren't designed all that well for servicing. I also noted how large the 308 engine is. It's significantly larger than a small block chevy (even though they are often two times the size capacity wise). Doing as Edward has said and pulling it from the intake manifold on the destra bank worked very well. I hooked up the other chainblock to the sinistra bank just to be sure to be able to change the angle if necessary. Thanks everyone for the info. Now tomorrow to start taking apart the engine. Looking ahead, I still haven't figured out how I'm going to retorque everything after warming it up and letting it run for a bit, while it is in the car. I guess I'll figure that out once I'm done with all of this. |