| Author | Message | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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What better than two ferrari's at speed on the highway...I bet the music from the exhaust was beautiful!! I am going to go with test pipes from Nick and I think SuperChips....I will keep everyone updated on how everything turns out! I plan to dyno the car this spring after the 30K so I will post and let everyone know the difference test pipes, chips, and K&N make in 348 land!! Once again thanks for all the help to everyone that has posted here!! | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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John, I forgot to tell you. The 130 was great but what was even more fun who was on my six -- 20 feet back -- the infamous William in his 512TR. I took off pass him (a sneak attack -- figured I was my only chance) and he just unloaded, reeled me in and stayed on my six right up to speed. We hit the century mark on the Florida highways many a time. It was a blast.  | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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John, As for my pipes I went the easy way, but the expensive way. They are the true Tubi pipes and they cost about 2.5K to do. You can get them way way cheaper but I personally did not want to go through the wait, like you are now, plus Tubi guarantees proper fit and finish with warranty. I like having not to worry about the product. They look great, sound great and fit perfectly. I would call Nick as he seems to get closest to the Tubi manufacture tolerances and finish for much less cost, plus Nick stands behind his stuff. Michael | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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John, I placed an ad in the Ferrari Market Letter for "Test Pipes Wanted" and received several calls from people with them for my 348. I decided on buying from a guy in Texas for $300.00 for the pair. I've had them on a 328, TR and now my 348 and have been pleased with the sound and performance enhancement. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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Michael forgot to ask you again where did you get your cut off pipes? I havent been able to find someone selling them I was going to do it myself but figured I would see if someone had a good set before I did that. 130 god that must have been a great feeling!! especially in the TR with all 12 cylinders making sweet music! I took the 348 up to 145 once and that car gets a little squirrly up that high so I reworked the suspension with better brushings, it made a little difference but I think it is just the shape of the car. Anyhoo thanks for all the feedback | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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Michael I am definitely going to do the cat cut offs this spring and probably the chips as well. I figure that if I am opening up the exhaust system and intake system via the K&N I have in it already there is no reason not to get more fuel the the engine as well. The one thing that I like about the superchips is that it doesnt hurt your mid range, I have used chips by other companies in other cars and have gotten bitten in the mid range for more bhp at the high end....however its a little impossible, not to mention bad on the engine to rip around town at 7000 RPMs. Anyways I cant wait for sunday I am taking my car out for the first time in two months cause its suppose to be 50. You guys in FLA and other southern states dont know what its like to just see a ferrari beggin you to drive it because its just sitting in the garage! | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Frank, Mine are still connected and I get false alarms in the TR. I talked to the mechanic at the track today and he said depending on the amount unburnt fuel this will happen. It is possible that the 12 cylinders just deliver more raw fuel to the exhaust than the 8 cyl. They will be disconnected next week. Michael John, I just really opened the car up today with the precats and cats gone. OH shi* is my response. Above 110 she revves more freely and just rips my shorts off. Hit 130 today without a thought and the engine just feels like it was unshackled. Very very nice. One more thing, I thought the noise difference outside was nothing but I zipped by my family's limo at 120 and my brother said the sound is much better. A bit louder but the biggest thing is it has a deeper more race car sound on acceleration. And on the shifts you now get the race car sound. I suggest doing what Frank did, do the pipes and see and then add the Tubi exhaust if you want more later. Michael | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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Michael, I kept the termal couplers connected to my by pass pipes as they had a mounting bose for them. I have driven the car over 4500 miles since with no false alarms yet. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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John, The car is a little louder but not as much as I thought. As a gauge if I want to hear music the same as before, I need to turn my stereo up 2 notches from 16 to 18. What's neat is in the cabin you get that great Tubi reverb sound when you blip the throttle and/or accelerate hard, you also get the performance kick but the noise outside to people has not increased. The performance change while very clearly evident is not noticeable unless you are driving the car to the limits. It shows up on "throttle to the floor applications". In regular street driving, no difference is noted except for the cool rumble now in the cabin at idle. Remember also when you do it, disconnect the slow lights and the slow alarm (beep) system or else the sensor will activate a lot because of the unburned fuel now igniting freely in the exhaust system. No more cats so cannot overheat them. Neat to have that problem gone. Michael | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
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Forza 348 buyers guide for 348's talks about the change from Bosch 2.5 to 2.7 from chassis serial number 86406. It also states that this and the single plate clutch modifications (October 1991) were the two most important and most talked about. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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If you�re right Bob then I have a Motronic 2.7!! God that�s sweet I was always under the impression that the switch was performed in 1992 model year cars. Julian I definitely know what you mean when you are talking about the smog shop I think if I remember right it�s a pretty hefty fine for altering your emissions equipment in CA. I personally think that based on other cars I have tuned and modified that the chips do make a noticeable difference in the mid to high RPM range. This is true on naturally aspirated cars as well, well at least on the ZR-1 I had the pleasure of working on. One the Dyno with stock exhaust the car jumped from its stock 375bhp (it was a 1990) to 402bhp and this upward shift could be seen across the RPM range not just at a certain RPM like 6000�.the gains were flat across the board. However after adding the chip we slipped on a beautiful sounding Borla exhaust along with a cold air induction unit and the hp climbed up to 415�..not to bad for just freeing up the to engine to breath better and get more fuel when it needed it. So I guess to answer your question then I think that the chips are the best upgrade for the money if you can�t afford to take of the cats. But if you do upgrade the chips make sure that you have a K&N air filter or some other high flow brand because your car will need to suck in as much air as possible. When you figure that exhaust will cost you in the neighborhood of $2000 I just think it is a much better choice to get the chips and free up breathing first, and when you have time (and money) later move on to the full exhaust. IMHO I think I am going to call SuperChips sometime in the next few days and see if I cant pick myself up a set for my car. I�ll let you know how things go if and when I do get them, info on how they tune their chips, etc I have some spare time on my hands so I don�t mind�.the damn weather is still a little to cold to take my car out here in Minnesota so I have to just sit and stare at it. Two more things: Michael � How much louder would you say your TR is with the cats removed as opposed to them being attached? If I can get a good power and sound increase from removing them I will not even worry about a Tubi for that matter. Frank � Where did you get your cat replacement pipes from? I have looked all over and cant find anyone that sells them besides Nick in Washington state. Oh yeah one more final thing about chips Julian I have noticed from my experiences that when you get new chips make sure that you have a good set of spark plugs and plug wires, I suggest going to 8mm or 8.5mm just to get a little better combustion with all the extra fuel that the engine will be getting under full throttle. I bet all this talk of tweaking a Ferraris performance with chips and all is getting to some of the purist out there. :0) | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Frank is definitely correct. I just picked up my TR at Cavallino in Palm Beach. I had the precats and cats replaced with Tubi straight pipes. AWESOME. The sound is great, the additional power is there from 1500 all the way to 6800 and the race car sound is excellent in the cabin. I kept the stock muffler system as to not make too much noise and still the performance difference is very very cool!!! | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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Replacing the cats with test pipes is the most performance for the dollar out there. I paid $300.00 for the ones for my 348. You can feel the difference from idle to top end. You get enhanced sound as well. | ||
| Julian Pham (Julian_Blk348)
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I just want to start this off by saying that this thread is becoming a performance upgrades database dream for 348 owners. John, since mine is a '92, it must have the 2.7 motronic. I did send Superchips the S/N of my factory chips (they need it) and they said that they do have a set for $700 (about +22HP). I've just been debating to spend the $$$ for chips first or exhaust (and which one). Being in CA, I'm a little hesitant about messing with the CAT unless I know of a SMOG shop really really well if you know what I mean. | ||
| bob snow (Resnow)
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According to my research, the switch from Motronic 2.5 to 2.7 was made with S/N 86420 in 1990. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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Chris I have been doing the samething too :0) Julian I looked at Koenigs parts for a while now....actually they were the first ones I had looked at cause I trusted their name. His exhaust are suppose to be very good but if you look at the exhaust they have for sale www.koenig-specials.com there is one specifically for pre 93 cars and one for after those years....I have emailed them a few times but I think there understanding of English isnt that good. I was curious cause if you look at their pictures the pre 93 exhaust only has the end pipes and cost 1/2 of the other post 93 exhaust whose picture has the full muffler etc. I havent been able to figure out from them if the pre 93 exhaust includes a muffler or not....all I get back from them is that it increases sound and power. I just dont want to drop $1500 for a set of end pipes. I was going to purcahse their sport camshafts but decided against it after reviewing my budget :0) From what I have heard from one person in England is that there chips are very good and are about equal in comparison to SuperChips product on the dyno. Julian is your 92 motronic 2.7 or 2.5? I know that superchips makes a great product for the 2.7 but I havent talked to them yet to see if they make a product for the 2.5 system.....the only places I have really seen that make chips for the 2.5 are koenig and www.powerchips.com.au I will do some more research on these topics and see if anything can be found out from these companies Koenig claims +30hp powerchips +28 I think. If anyone else has any experience with these or other companies performance products please let us know your experiences. | ||
| Julian Pham (Julian_Blk348)
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John, Sounds like you've done your homework and will be making all the right choices. Let me know what you ultimate decide on the chips. From personal experiene, I can trust Supechips but am willing to try another trust-worthy supplier. BTW,I kinda feel the same way about TUBI, is it made out of gold or what? At one time, I was seriously looking at Stebro until I read about their horible on-time to commit. Not quiet sure about the sound either. Have you checked into Koenig's exhaust system yet? wonder what it sounds like and cost. | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
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I've been putting my ass on the treadmill everyday, that'll lower my Hp to Lbs. ratio. Save my shocks too !!!!! | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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Julian, I feel your pain as far as the expensive parts for little performance gain. I still feel that the tubi's are rip offs...their quality and build is suspect in some that I have seen. Besides that I think the chips ($700) +22hp as you say, K&N air filter ($50 at your local auto store) and removing the cats are the best performance gains for the littlest amount of dough. I have talked to two people that have done the above and put the car on a dyno, one '94 spyder saw 39hp increase, the other '89ts saw 37hp increase from just chips, K&N, and hollowing out the cats. To me in this car thats a pretty good increase considering you arent doing anything to the engine besides freeing up its breathing abilities. I have looked at Koenig's cam shafts but for 5K (just for the cams) I think the money can be better spent else where. I have also seen italiancarparts sells 9mm spark plug wires for the 348, if your going to tune the computers to give more gas, opening up the intake to get more air into the cylinders, I think this is also an essential upgrade. Bosch also has a new plat. spark plug out that is a 4-way split fire type plug....if they make ones for the 348 you can bet on me having them in my car. Its amazing the difference in smooth idle those plugs make in my fathers ZR-1. Anyways that gives you a clue what I have looked at dealing with increasing hp. Like I said before lowering the weight of the car I think is a big step as well my 1/4 mile times dropped 0.2 just by taking out the stock 2000lbs seats! (Well maybe more like 60-70). A tubi lowers this weight a lot too over the stock exhaust. If you have anyother ideas or if anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them. John | ||
| Julian Pham (Julian_Blk348)
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John, I've also looked into performance upgrades for my '92 and found that you do have to spend big bucks for little gain. $700 for 2 chips from Superchips (I used their chip on my '88 911, worked great), $2200 for Tubi, $1800 for stebro, and that's about it. So $700 chips for +22HP and $1800-$2200 exhaust for +12HP. Let's see... around $2500-$3000 for +34HP, but probably above 5000RPM. Having said all that, I'm considering those options since my 348 does feel wimpy compared to TR, 355, and 360. Let me know if you have other alternatives. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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Hey Chris how much did your 30K cost you if you have had it done already?? Did you get it done at lake forest or continential down there? Ebays actually got some great deals on it if you just know where to look and how to buy from. Your blue is really sweet what is the actual name for the color? Have you done anything to your car or is it all stock still? Also like I asked earlier has anyone done any work on fixing their speedo...my odometer works just cant tell how fast I'm going!! P.S. Easy on the ViQueen comments you have no idea how painful it is for me living up here having to watch them every weekend. | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
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wow a $1500 transaction on EBay you've got balls bigger than an F50 !!!! Go Vikings ! ( just kidding ) | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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just had to share a few more pictures of my baby with you all....anyone else wanting to share feel free!! I love to see my cars brothers and sisters John | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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I got the rims on ebay off of some dude that totaled his 355 spyder....not a bad investment for $1500 considering how much better they make the car look, and the fact they are lighter than stock. You can usually find a set on ebay about every month or so for sale with fluctuating prices...usually around $2K or so. Now if only the snow would melt so I could drive the thing!! Even though in my picture the car is surrounded by snow shes never touched a tire to it!! I am in the process of designing a plan to make the car a little bit better of a performer on the track. Its great high in the RPM range but between 3000-5000 it�s a little more sluggish than I would like. Like I said before reducing the weight of the car makes a big difference I took both stock seats out and bolted in a carbon fiber momo seat and dropped 2 tenths off my quarter mile time....I haven�t had a chance to put it on a track yet but my guess is from other cars I have driven the results would be mild, with braking and accelerating out of turns improving the most. The only thing is the momo just isn�t comfortable for daily driving. I have driven a new ZO6 Vette around for a day and have no doubt that the car is one of the best sports cars in the world today, and that includes the 360 I drove a year back. To tell you the truth the Z06 is a wicked car both in a straight line as well as around turns, if I was competitively racing on the track I would want one for my car, actually I would take a F50 but it�s a little easier to swallow sliding into a wall backward in a 50K car as opposed to a 500K car.....but like I am sure everyone knows its still a Chevy!! Personally I want to get my 348 closer to the 355 as far as handling and throttle response around the track. Brian thanks for pointing out that the Ferrari Newsletter has info on chips, the only two companies that I have found selling performance chips are Superchips www.superchips.com which from what I can tell (not having spoken directly to them) only sells Montronic 2.7 chips (i.e. 92-94 cars) and Powerchips www.powerchip.com.au a company out of Australia. I question buying anything for an American spec car from a foreign country unless it is made for the same ECU. Does anyone (Brian??) have any information on these two companies or experience with them, not just with a 348 but with any car for that matter. Also Brian you are right about the exhaust being a smart early mod, it�s been the first thing that I have done on almost every other sports car I have owned. The only thing is that it is so damn expensive!! Tubi�s are insanely priced and Borla no longer makes a 348 kit. Has anyone had any experience with Strebo (sp)?? I�ve seen a few other posts mentioning they make the car sound like a Ford Tempo�.god that would be a disappointment for some poor owner. Besides that cat cutoffs are the first exhaust improvement I am going to make come this spring, to me I think performance wise they will hit harder than a tubi by eliminating back pressure and lowering under hood temperatures. Anyways I�ll stop rattling on now but just wanted to share with the community�.any input is as always appreciated greatly! :0) John | ||
| Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
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Don't have the # here but there is an ad in Ferrari Newsletter for 348 chips, never installed them in a Ferrari but they make a noticeable difference in porsches. Other than that the exhaust would be an early mod. worth doing, saves weight as well. | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
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I too have been looking for place that sells 348 chips. Have you guys found a reputible dealer? Also, I love those 355 rims....where did you get those John ? | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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So Dan have you done any work on your own on your 348? I am curious as to how difficult it is to work on as well as get at the majority of the engine's components. I am use to working on cars I have done so since I was little starting with small block chevys and working up to my master piece of rebuilding a LT5 ZR-1 engine. However none of the babies I've worked on have ever been Italian and it makes me a little edgy working on a 20K engine. | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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Yep... I'm just another computer geek. There is another picture of my car and me titled "Dan's 348ts" in the showroom. I too have a lot of pictures, on a diskette. Dan | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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Also if anyone out there has tuned up or is interested in adding a little more power to their 348 I would like to talk with you. I have looked at a lot of products and would like to know what you have looked at.....chips I heard are by far the biggest performance boost, after that what do you guys think?? To me making the car lighter has had a moderate effect, I can tell big time in braking and minorly in accelleration. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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Yep they are they fit great and I think personally look a heck of a lot better than the original ones from a 348....the originals remind me to much of the early 90's late 80's Lotus wheels. Plus the extra rubber in the back really helps the car hook up better out of turns. Dan do you have any other pictures of your car...I have seen a few and thought it looked great. Let me know if you want some more of mine as well I have a whole bunch now that I have a digital camera. I read about your experience with the 30K when you got your car....I sure as hell hope mine doesnt go that bad!! I see your into software too...another computer geek like me :0) | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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John, Are the wheels on your 348 from a 355? Dan | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
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Hi John, welcome to the family. Make a search on "348 service" and you will find very useful tips. | ||
| michael marchese (Bigdog)
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John, welcome to Ferrarichat! And yes there are ALOT of helpful people here. | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
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Hi all, I'm new to the board and new to ferrari ownership :0) I would first like to say that all you out there are great I have never seen such a awesome community online. Plus from your pics I know you all have some beautiful cars. My main questions to you all is how much does a 30K service for a 348 usually run, and what is all done during the service (ie water pump replaced, cam belts, etc..) I just want to get a detailed list together before I go in to have it done so I can be up front with whats expected to be done, so the mechanic know what I am looking for. Also have any of you had any experience with working on the speedo in a 348...mine has decided to quit on me within the three months I have owned the car now. I am thinking that it is a fuse or some sort of relay because the odometer is still working, I just cant tell how fast I am going.....and you know how well that flies with the local popo officer. (What do you mean 130mph my speedo only said 20 :P). Anyways thanks for any help you can give me! Check out my profile for a pic of my baby if you interested, and if anyone on here is a ferrari owner or lover in Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Iowa let me know as I am in Rochester and would love to get to know some other local owners. PS one more thing if anyone is looking to sell their 308 carb or QV let me know I have a friend who is very interested in picking up that awesome work of art! |