| Author | Message | ||
| Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
New member Username: Standig Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul I had an 87 TR. It was a rocket ship to drive. My observation was that it was heavy to steer. One day I took my wife for a ride we were looking at new houses. I had to turn around in the middle of the street which took a bit of effort...she looked at me and said is this really fun to drive? In a straight line and on a open road or cruising the back roads it is an awe inspiring experience. To listen to the song of the 12 cyld. I didn't know the radio didn't work until I sold the car and the new owner told me. I was instructed to let car warm up a bit before I drove it. It did make a difference. My car also popped out of second. but only when the car was cold. My newer 348 has a tendency to do that in 1st. If I let car warm up first I don't seem to have the problem. It was a great experience owning a 12 cyld. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
New member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2002 |
Paul - I concur with Marcus concerning front end ground clearance. You quickly get use to the crunch of plastic against asphalt. My experience with the brakes is that they require substantial pedal pressure, and when cold, underperform. I have been told that when hot they improve, although I do not drive the car hard enough to be able to comment. The car is heavy, and as Marcus articulates, the lack of power steering with wide front tires results in grunts and groans when trying to get in or out of a parking space. However, I love the car. It was designed as a grand touring vehicle, and that is what it does best. High-speed runs on open roads allows it to sing. I have not experienced the cold running difficulty, nor the electical malfunctions implied by Marcus, but then again, I live in a dry climate. (The last comment reminds me of an old observation concerning why the British drink their beer warm - because the refrigerators are made by Lucas). Join the club - never in the history of mankind has the price of a 12 cylinder been so low (for inflation adjusted dollars). A nice 1985-87 TR can be had for $40-$50K. Jim Selevan | ||
| Marcus Adolfsson (Marcusadolfsson)
Junior Member Username: Marcusadolfsson Post Number: 83 Registered: 10-2001 |
I drive my TR several times a week, and I would disagree on the opinion that it drives like a truck  True, it is a big car, but a very solid and fast one. The manual steering does require some muscle work, but as long as you don't keep switching to another car with power steering it will become very normal quickly. The breaks work great, but as with any car it takes a while getting used to them. I love that the suspension is hard, so there is almost no "nose" dipping when applying the breaks. You can be doing 100MPH+ and the Interstate and see a trooper coming your way and break heavily - he won't notice that you are are breaking. Some of my driving quirks with TR: Engine needs to warm up for a smooth ride. If you are in a rush and don't let the engine warm up (takes about 5 min on idle), then the I-12 engine runs really rough and cranky. People would think that you have no idea how to drive a manual car. The throttle responsive is a little delayed during this stage too, so be careful. The low spoiler placement in combination with the front wheels placement further away than normal from the nose causes several unwelcome encounters with the ground if you are not careful. Always take drive ways that tilt at an angle. 2nd gear pops out for me now and then - could be just my car. Maintenance issues: - $$$ Major Service is expensive. - The TRX tires that the knockoff wheels (85, 86, 87) use are both expensive and use outdated technology. - Weak electrical system, check other posts here for workarounds. That's it for now. The TR is a great car otherwise. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2001 |
Thanks James, I was leaning towards an older model. I do like the single mirror look as well. The knock offs also look nice. I guess as long as the wheels are removed once in a while, they wont sieze on the hubs. I thought they would have good brakes and I have heard they drive like a truck but why? | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
New member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2002 |
Paul - I own a 1986 TR. The car now has 30,000 miles, and is in the Ferrari shop for major. This is the first "dime" that I have spent on the car. I have owned this car for 13 years. Months go by between outings, but it starts within 3 seconds each time. Drives like a truck. Great for the forearms and triceps. It was designed to go in one direction only - straight. Leave lots of space between you and the car in front of you. Don't worry about someone following close behind - they can stop in far less distance than you can. Low-end torque provides very comfortable city driving; you only need one gear - second. I refer to 2nd gear as flat-12-Ferrari-automatic; it will take you from zero to 100. No need to learn how to shift. I use my Dino for go-cart outings - the contrast is not subtle. The Dino is great for nimble excitement, and cam chains have a particular ring to them, but when I want to spend more than a few minutes in a Ferrari, I do so in the TR. Only item on the wish list would be better brakes. Finally - 1985 and 86 are my choice because of the asymmetry of a single mirror and center knock-off bolt. That single mirror adds a certain character to the car. Hope this helps. Jim Selevan | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 216 Registered: 12-2001 |
Thanks Russ, thats good news. I dont mind dropping a thousand bucks on a major service. I expected alot more than that. I can service it myself so thats really good news. I would like a TR but cant afford an 89 and the canadian dollar has sucked for a long time and sucks even more now. So when I see one for $60k, it $100k+ to me. I have no choice but to get , say an 85 with 60kms and fix what needs to be fixed. My biggest concern would be an outrageous diff bill or something like that. If the engine needs reringing and sealing, so be it. At least I would have a TR. Things are looking brighter. | ||
| Russ Moore (Rem9)
Junior Member Username: Rem9 Post Number: 79 Registered: 6-2001 |
Paul, I have a 328S and an 86 TR. Both cars are great and I get a lot of pleasure from both. I just did the 15K service on the TR myself and the cost of pieces/parts for the complete task was just shy of $1k. Took some time in labor but learned vast amounts. Many Ferrari dealers have off season discounts on service work and one might be able to get a 15 or 30K service for more along the lines of $3K which is what many private repair shops would charge. The TR is a bit more expensive to maintain, but I had no problem in finding any parts I wanted. Some bits are just rediculous such as the $350 distributor caps (2). In most instances there is no need to replace these. The service intervals are most interested in the changing of timing belts, replacement of cam seals and the adjustment of valves. The major expense is in that you must remove the engine to perform this work on it. Not for the meek, but doable in any case. The 328 just seems to run and responds very well to the most basic preventive maintenance procedures. Using a premium synthetic oil and lube and changing filters with the proper replacements is the best guarantee you have. I have a friend who has done some fairly extensive work on his 308 and saved a considerable amount. While some was corrective there was a portion that was preventive. Always a wise expenditure. I agree with the earlier post regarding the sound of the 12 cylinder. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 214 Registered: 12-2001 |
Thanks all for the input. The thing that surprises me the most is the parts availability problem. I thought it wouldnt be an issue like an older 308. | ||
| Christian (Christiank)
Member Username: Christiank Post Number: 328 Registered: 1-2001 |
Back to the question. Owning a TR and a Mondial I can tell you that the TR is the real thing. My advise: Pay more for a good one as the main problem is maintenance costs. Also, the best TR is the one which is driven on a regular basis and maintained on a regular basis. The engine and transmission inc. diff (makes noise) is not good for more than about 60,000 miles. Afer that you need at least new valve guides. Parts are so expensive but even if you are willing to pay for it, the most annoying thing is that they are often not available, so you have to wait and pay and wait and pay. Good luck! | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
New member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2002 |
Bruce, As long as you've got that CD in the original "12-cylinder carbed version"...I'm still interested. With the engine still being out of my BB, I can actually hear the CD player, for the first time...but soon (I hope) we'll be motoring again! David | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 316 Registered: 4-2002 |
hey ken i really like you, a man that admits his mistakes and apologizes when hes wromg..thank you for that also, yes im your friend , even though you "put" down my car as i let you drive it, remember? yes probably $6-8k for a 30k service, to do everything, dont forget its a 12 cyl car , not a 6 or 8 any finally thanks for the fight invite, i was in long island all weekend , and just got your message, and yes my familys fine..btw, it wasnt maaco, it was earl scweib for $69.95 speak to you during the week.. david, i have the tape in cd version, still want it?? regards all.... bruce | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
New member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hey Bruce, Can I get a copy of that tape? Make make me feel a bit better, till I get my BB back on the road.... Regards, David | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 58 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bruce: I thought we were friends? Now I am going to have to let everyone know your secret. ATTENTION ALL FERRARI CHAT MEMBERS. Bruce's car is really a Fiero conversion kit that he brought to Macco who painted it Fly Yellow for $199.00. And when he drives his car he plays a tape reproducing the sound of a Ferrari 12 cylinder through a loud speaker. Seriously Bruce. A production run of 7,000 cars (the 10,000 number I mentioned is for all TR - series 1, 512TR, and 512M - and I should have quoted the 7,000 number. My error.) is much higher than the production run of Daytona's, Lusso's, 275's, etc which number several hundred or a thousand or two. Ads for TR's litter the Internet and just about every other auto publication. This is not the case for the other cars I mentioned. As to how I know about the maintenance costs of TR, many of my friends own them (you included), I researched them heavily before I purchased my 308 (I considered a TR or 512 Boxer before the 308), and my mechanic whom I am good friends with has 1-2 TR's in his shop at any given time. I have also judged them at Reading and New Hope in prior years (I was asked to judge this year but declined because I did not want to judge your car even though it would have probably taken first anyway). As to the service costs of a TR, expect to pay $6K for a 30K mile service which you know. Add to this price any other repairs the car may need when it is in the shop at that time. Finally, yes your Fly Yellow TR is rare and a very beautiful car. Many people search for a Fly Yellow TR but have to settle for another car because they cannot locate one. You were lucky to get your car and when you go to sell it please call me first. Your pal, Ken | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 87 Registered: 3-2001 |
"Common" can be a misleading term - it defintely is a relative term in this case. According to the "Model List" link at the top of the page, there were 7,200 TRs made between 1985 and 1991. That averages out to just over 1,025 per model year, but it had the longest production run of any of the recent cars listed. Are the 91's really the same car that was in production in 1985? In my opinion, no, but that how they are listed. If you look at the production levels of 348tb and ts models (which by the TR example could be considered the same model) 7,125 were made over 3 model years for an average of 2,375 per year. On top of that, Ferrari made another 1,090 348 Spiders (which to the rest of the world are just another version of the same model) from 1993 to 1995. So, which one is more common? | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 344 Registered: 2-2001 |
Paul, I own a 1990 TR and the car has been practically problem free since the beginning as far as I can tell from receipts. I have only owned it for over a year now, and it has been nothing but a pleasure to own. If you do some of your own maintenance and repairs, I know for a fact that they can actually be cheaper to own than other F-cars since engine reliability is really high. , and yes, the sound is wonderful. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 313 Registered: 4-2002 |
first of all, there were about 7000 trs made from 85-91, secondly,they are like any other car, preventive maintanence..i have had my car about 6 months, after some repairs from the previous owner, i have never had a proble. My car is driven every week and im always watching the fluids,oils, etc. ken ,how would you know about repair bils iF you never owned a T.R.??? SO COMMON, I OWN A 88 FLY YELLOW TR, THEY MADE 40 OF THEM IN 88, IS THAT COMMON??? MY 2 CENTS | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 203 Registered: 12-2001 |
Thats what I wanted to hear - Thanks. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 55 Registered: 2-2002 |
Paul: One reason why TR's are so cheap is because Ferrari made more than 10,000 of them. As a result, a TR is a common car (if there is such a thing as a common Ferrari) which is reflected by the price. Another reason why they are cheap is because they are very expensive to maintain. Hope this helps. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 201 Registered: 12-2001 |
What Im asking is what goes wrong with TR's? WHy is the cost of admission on a TR low considering the performance? | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 309 Registered: 4-2002 |
hi paul im not really understanding your question, but i own a 88 tr for about 6 months now and love it, no problems, and there is no other feeling than listening to that flat 12 cyl horses sing.THe 412bb is truly a beautiful car,but the rule of thumb with ferraris is the older the model , the harder it is to find parts.my 2 cents..good luck bruce | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 200 Registered: 12-2001 |
I asked a few questions awhile back regarding TR's. I would really like a 512BB but have to be realistic so perhaps a 86 TR would be a more logical next choice rather than a 328. Ive heard about rear diffs and fuse boxes like mose F-cars but what should I be most concerned about when looking at one of these? I think a newer one is out of the question because I would just get a 512BB instead (personal choice). Are the cars crap? Ive heard parts are costly but do they have problems on the regular basis? Labour costs are not an issue, I just dont want to regret stretching myself and realizing it wasnt the best choice. I want a flat 12, I just dont feel complete without one. Thanks in advance, Paul. |