| Author | Message | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 159 Registered: 5-2001 |
Robert, The gears have a part # on them. I'd start by comparing them. (Assuming this is a Ferrari p/n, and not a supplier's p/n. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Junior Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 165 Registered: 2-2002 |
Tim, probably not. Keep in mind the F40 is dry sump. There is an inlet on the right side of the timing cover that goes to the oil pump. On a wet sump car (most 308s and all 328s), the inlet is at the bottom of the timing cover. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1528 Registered: 2-2001 |
Tim, I do not believe that this is possible in that the cover is considered part of the engine block and not sold seperately. | ||
| Timothy J. Dressel (Tjd)
Junior Member Username: Tjd Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2001 |
Rick, and others, I've heard that the F40 cover, gears, and bearings are a good upgrade for the 308, in that the bearings are larger. Anyone had any experience with this? Any idea of the expense? --tim d | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Junior Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 164 Registered: 2-2002 |
Try to "mesh" it with gear that you're replacing. If the teeth "mesh" 70% or more, it's the right one. If they won't go more than 20 or 30%, it's the wrong one. Look at them from the side (cross section), if the thickness of the teeth doesn't look the same, they're mismatched. Also, the engine won't turn by hand with the cover assembled and installed. | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 56 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ric, I found a new one at TR for $600. How can I be sure it is not the wrong design when it arrives? | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Junior Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 159 Registered: 2-2002 |
The shaft might be reshaped if the unit is heated and then adjusted. I'm not a metallurgist, but I think it would have to be re-quinched. The unit is FORGED, so keep this in mind. If you opt to replace the gear, BE WARY! There are two distinct types of gear sets behind the cover, and they're NOT interchangeable. They are VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL in apperance, but the helixes are ground (or cut differently). One type has slightly thicker teeth than the other type. They DO NOT mesh if you get the types mixed (ask me how I know!!). This applies to the drive gears, oil pump gear, and the crankshaft drive gear. So, if you find a used one, leave the option open to return it, in case it's not the right type. | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 55 Registered: 2-2002 |
Dear Friends, I think I have located the problem with my timing gear. I removed the timing cover this last weekend and could find no fault with my previous assembly. After talking to several knowledgeable and experienced Ferrari mechanics, this includes many of you, I was starting to focus on the timing belt tensioner assembly. One mechanic said that he had seen this exact problem before and it could be caused by the timing bearing being somewhat cocked when tightened. Although this did not make sense to me I had to respect his experienced and was going to inspect all the parts and try to correct any problem with this assembly. I still could not understand how the problem was not in the timing gear assembly as everything was perfect before I replaced the the bearings etc. My last test was to check the actual timing gears on a lathe with a dial indicator. Unfortunately, the gear causing the problem is bent at least .007" off center. The other shaft was only .002". Everything is becoming clearer. I am guessing that the previous mechanic who completed this same repair before I purchased he car, somehow bent the gear. This would explain how the outer bearing failed at less that 10,000 miles after the repair. It would also explain every other symptom , including the slight wiggle I had on the shaft after the replacement and the misalignment of the belt. I have no idea how the shaft got bent just know that it is! My brother-in-law who owns a company which makes parts for drag racing engines (including many famous racers) told me he could maybe straighten it by using heat or pressure. He has straightened many camshafts and crankshafts this way. To my horror I let him whack the shaft several times in order to attempt to straighten it resulting at maybe 001-002" correction. I was hesitant to let him proceed fearing irreparable damage to the shaft. However, I feel that this is too bent to replace in the engine anyway causing undue strain on the bearings and pulley. Can any of you provide any suggestions on how you would proceed? I will start by searching tomorrow for a new or used part. Would a replacement have exact gear placement or would I have to re-time the cams from scratch. I just marked everything thinking this would be a simple repair? Doesn't this sound like the cause of my problem? Would you try to repair the shaft using more heat or pressure, or suggest direct replacement (assuming I can find or afford one..)? Thanks for any advice, I still haven't given up on Monterey but it is starting to look bleak. Rob :-0 | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 155 Registered: 5-2001 |
Somehow my post got duplicated, I'm deleting this copy. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 154 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ed, Tnx for the eMAIL. I'm not going to worry too much about the cam belt riding toward the front of the pulleys as long as the belt edge isn't being deformed/frayed. It actually looks like it's riding about 1/16" back from the pulley edge. Of course I haven't started the engine running yet, so It's hard to tell for sure where the belt will end up riding. Damn, I forgot I was going to run the engine w/o the belt covers to make sure where it was riding. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on where it's riding on the drive pulleys & also watch it for wear on the edges. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2001 |
Robert, re" BELT POSITION: HOW ABOUT SPLITTING THE DIFFERENCE After turning my engine over by hand numerous times while setting cam timing, I noticed that my belts want to ride up against the pulley flange away from the engine!! Maybe you & I can split the difference & then both our belts would be centered(hah).. Hopefully this will go away once the engine is started. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 142 Registered: 5-2001 |
Robert, I agree w/Ed, take a good look at the tensioner 1st. Also, see if there's any radial movement in the timing drive shaft/pulley while you have the cam belt removed? If not, then still I'm dubious of a bearing problem. I'm probably bring pig-headed, but I think that even with the dowels the cover could be miss-aligned. The cover holes would still be centered on the dowels, but the cover would be cocked on the dowels. Yes, this may imply that the cover holes were deformed or gouged by th dowel end. Anyway, the cover hole axis would be at an angle relative to the dowel's axis. Thus the mounting surface of the cover wouldn't be parallel with the corresponding surface on the block. In turn this would imply that the timing shaft wouldn't be perpendicular to the block. Unfortunately, Robert, your bent cover hypothesis also matches up with the symptoms. For completeness of this problem's history, did you notice where the belt was riding immediately after you had things back together? I'm wondering whether it was riding off-center at mile 1, or appeared somewhere on the way to 200 miles. One thing fer sure, I'm going to start up my engine, let it run a while & watch how the belts ride before I put the belt covers back on. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1494 Registered: 2-2001 |
Everything was made from my own design locally in N.C. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 790 Registered: 1-2001 |
Rob -- it's your project, but before tearing it all apart again why not have a quick look at the various tensioner mounting surfaces (by disassembly) just to make sure all is clean/parallel (tensioner casting to block, bearing inner race fit on carrier, and carrier to tensioner casting)? You could even try swapping tensioner assemblies to see if the problem follows or not. | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 54 Registered: 2-2002 |
Well guys, Thanks again for all the great ideas. Edward your pulleys look cool, are those the tensioners from Australia? First off Steve, yes the belt is moving to the outside, as you can see on the first photo at the intake cam it is already a small amount off the edge. I am assuming that without the lip on the exhaust cam it would have gone off? What really is troubling me is that see first photo before it was tracking perfectly as is the front bank so I dont think it is the tensioner plus I looked at it closly and it seemed fine, I did not remove the support either just loosened the nut. I talked to Tony at MM and he told me that the belt should always track down the middle. What is weird is that I was watching everything while running and listening with my stethescope and all the things sound good and appear to be rotating evenly????? Verell, Yes there were 2 alignment dowels on mine but I did torque down the front cover first. By Monday I will have it all apart I am "hoping" for a bad bearing anything else will be confusing and upseting?? I was wondering if I warped the cover when I pressed in the shafts of the gears. My broter in law who builds parts for drag racers said he though unlikely (he helped me do this) at least I have a press now at home now. Thanks again for all the comments my goal is Monterey or bust, but I will settle for the bust if I can get the car running. My wife is about to leave me so keep those suggestions coming. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1491 Registered: 2-2001 |
There are dowels showing in my parts book for the front housing so unless they were omitted that shoots holes in the pan bolts first theory. Since thew belt is running towards the inside on the slack side I have to assume that the idler bearing? tensioner bracket is not square with the mounting. Both belts on my engine run towards the outside flanges. This is the reason I added the additional flanges on the timing system that I developed. I have flanges on all sides of my pulleys.   | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 789 Registered: 1-2001 |
Verell -- aren't there a couple of alignment dowels on two of the studs to prevent such misalignment? | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 141 Registered: 5-2001 |
re: TIMING COVER MISS-ALIGNMENT Robert, just saw your post on the other thread. You touched on another possibliity I hadn't thought of: THE TIMING COVER-BLOCK NUTS MUST BE TIGHTENED 1ST TO AVOID TIMING COVER-BLOCK MISS-ALIGNMENT!!! When the timing cover is removed/re-installed w/o separating the engine, there's no gasket between the bottomm of the timing cover & the sump. If the front sump-timing cover nuts are tightened up first, before the timing-cover-block nuts, then the timing cover can be mis-alligned relative to the block. The pulley shafts & pulleys would then be pointing slightly downward. Guess where that would make the belts tend to ride! Yup, towards the back of the pulleys! I guess it's even possible to slightly warp the timing cover if say one side was tightened against the head, then the sump nuts were tightened, followed by tightening the other side of the timing cover. Now one drive pulley would be properly perpendicular to the block & the other one would be nose down. Now only one belt is riding to the rear of it's pulleys... NOW, WHICH OF THE $@$@#$% NUTS DID Me & Thee TIGHTEN 1ST?? I think I did the cover-engine nuts first just because they were more easily accessable. Damn the subtle possibilities here, (NFC) Rotaries are looking even better... Of course there's that @#$# coolant leak I can't pin down in my winter driver Rx7, even after pulling the intake plenum 3 times... | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 140 Registered: 5-2001 |
Robert, I know some of what you're feeling. I felt the same way last spring when my I still had a small oil leak after re-doing my front bank cam seals/cam cover gaskets. I just couldn't stand tearing things apart again. Finally made an umbrella for my alternator out of heavy duty aluminum foil (didn't completely work) & lived with the leak for the rest of the summer. There's certainly no axial play in my timing pulleys, but I haven't started my engine yet. COULD SMALL AXIAL PLAY BE NORMAL? I sort of remember the new pulleys having a slight amount of axial play before they were installed. Consider this hypothesis: When 1st installed, the bearing alignment on the shaft is such that the axial play is removed between the 2 bearings. (In effect axial pre-load). However, over time, the bearings shift enough on either the shaft or in their housings to center themselves so that their normal play can be felt. DEVIL'S ADVOCACY: Steve raises an interesting question: Is the belt actualy rubbing on the pulley rim, or is it just over against it? In particular, does the edge of the belt you removed show signs of fraying or turning up on the pulley rim side? After all, the rims are there for some reason. (Gawsh, It's times like these that I wish I'd just stayed exclusively a Rx-7 nut. Rotary engines, even w/turbos are sooo much simpler... But...., Damn does Pinfarina design beautiful bodies...) | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 787 Registered: 1-2001 |
Rob -- I'm still having a hard time seeing just what the problem is -- why should the belt track perfectly in the center? If all the toothed pulleys rotate well (i.e., you can tell that they aren't seriously cocked/wobbling) I would try to do a little double-checking that the tensioner axis wasn't tipped for some reason, but if that checked OKish and the belt wasn't forced hard up against one of the flanges when running (nor overhanging off of any pulley) I just don't see a big concern. Other 308 owners -- where's the natural running positions of your belts? -- outboard, center, inboard? Am I wrong and every 308 belt out there is running perfectly down the center? | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 53 Registered: 2-2002 |
sorry here are the pics   | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 52 Registered: 2-2002 |
{photo1} {photo2} | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2002 |
Edward and all, Here are some pictures I took of the belt. note 1. how in pic 1 the position of the belt near or off the edge of the cam shafts. 2. compare to the front bank pulley remember i replaced the belt twice and befor the repair the belt was positioned correctly ( see below) {photo1} \(photo2} Rob | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1483 Registered: 2-2001 |
There is an outer guide on the lower pulley, is the belt riding over it? Also if the only evidence is where it runs over the idler pulley then I would suspect a possible misalignment of the idler pulley. | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
New member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 49 Registered: 2-2002 |
Verell, A couple of observations. 1. like the nut I am I used 2 new belts one originally when I did the repair and a new one yeterday with the same results. 2. My original bearing completely failed and the shaft was moving 1/4" off center before I took the picture below and the belt was tracking OK. The tensioner bearing felt fine but I will re-check it once I have everything off again. ?????????????????? I'm going in!!! watch my back on a lighter side my near suicidal emotions have reverted to a dull feeling of helplessness, guilt and depression Rob | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
New member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 48 Registered: 2-2002 |
Edward, Yes, here is a picture of before I started the repair. note: the line where the belt rides on the tensioner bearing and the amount of space behind the pulley on the drive gear about 1/4". Now it is riding almost off the edge. The front bank is fine. Between these two symptoms I think I have a problem......not sure what it is though/? Rob  | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 138 Registered: 5-2001 |
Robert, For the belt to be miss-tracking, either one side of the belt has stretched, or one of the 3 pulleys has it's axis cocked at an angle instead of being parallel to the axis of the other 2 pulleys, or one of the pulleys is no longer cylindrical (ie has become tapered front to back), or the tensioner is cocked off-axis. So, what are the possibilities? Cam pulley's axis is cocked? Then CAM would have to be cocked. Only way would be for the cam caps to be working themselves loose. (Don't think you had the cams out for this job, so unlikely.) Tapered pulley? Again, unlikely, would imply a lot of assymetric wear. Uneven belt stretch? Possible, maybe some strands have broken in one side of the belt. If the belt drive pulley's been off-center, then the belt may have been stretched unevenly. Tensioner off-axis: Possibly, can't rule it out. OUTER BEARING FAILURE: This is beginning to sound more likely. Assuming that the outer bearing has failed & is the cause of the the belt's to miss-tracking, then the bearing's inner race has to be enough off-center to cock the shaft & pulley at an angle. Only way I can think of to diagnose this further is to remove the timing belt & see if the tensioner is cocked, or the outer bearing now has excessive radial play. ie: Not only can you move the shaft axially, you can also cock it off of the axial axis. If it's neither the tensioner or the outer bearing, then it must be the belt. A REALLY BAD NEWS HYPOTHESIS: If the outer bearing is causing the shaft to be cocked at an angle, it means the shaft has been cocking the inner bearing's inner race by the same angle. What we't know is how much off-axis the inner race can be cocked w/o damaging the inner bearing. (See, I told you it it was bad news.) Anyway, pulling the timing belt should let you make a better diagnosis of the problem. If the inner bearing goes bad, It's likely to get noisy long before the outer bearing goes & anything drastic occurrs. I think I'd be inclined to replace the outer bearing & take a risk on the inner bearing. The alternative is going to be to pull the !$#% timing cover & replace both the inner & outer bearings again. TIPS ON REPLACING THE OUTER BEARING: Assuming the outer bearing is bad. I think you can pull it as follows: 0) Remove the pulley & outer C-clip to expose the bearing. 1) Pry off the bearing's outer dust shield. 2) Remove the bearing guide/separator: Use a diamond point in a dremel tool to cut the raceway guide. Once you've got the guide cut, you should be able to grab an end of it with something & peel it off. 3) Remove a bearing: Cut a notch in the outer bearing race that will let a pair of bearings out. 4) Use a BLIND BEARING PULLER to pull the bearing out. Someone posted a sketch of one a few months ago on one of the timing bearing threads. Basicly it's two bolts w/ a bearing sized head. You slip one of in the notch the bearings came out of. Rotate the bearings until you can slip the 2nd one in ~180 degrees away from the 1st one. Then the two bolt ends go thru a pair of holes in a cross-plate & you use a slide hammer in a hole centered between the two bolts to pull the bearing out. If you don't have a source for the blind puller, make it: you can grind down the heads on a couple of socket head cap screws until they'll fit in place of bearings. Either grind them round, or else grind them to where they're T-shaped where the top of the T is is the diameter of the bearing, & when the T is turned sideways it'll slip into the groove between the races. I suggested socket head cap screws because they're usually grade 10 or 12, thus strong enough to take a bit of punishment w/o breaking the head off. Also the heads are already round, so less grinding is involved. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1482 Registered: 2-2001 |
Is there an outer guide on one side of one cam pulley and a guide on the opposite end of the other? | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
New member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 47 Registered: 2-2002 |
Timing Gear Pulley Bearing Drama (Part II) First off thanks to everyone who has offered advice and support! To update everyone on my current situation. I recently replaced all the bearings & seals in my timing case after the rear outer bearing failed. After driving 200 miles I noticed that the belt was riding right on the inside edge of the rear pulley. At first I thought that I had not put the pulley on all the way. I removed the pulley and seal and the bearing looked fine, however I noticed an almost imperceptible axial movement. I tightened up the pulley and the play seemed to go away. Even though my gut feeling said that there was something wrong (?) I reassembled everything (including new belts, seal and nut) and started the car. Everything was running great and I was very excited until I checked the timing belt, which was still running at the rear edge of the pulley. I have digital pictures I took after the outer bearing failed which show the belt tracking near the middle of the pulley, as is the front belt currently. I guess I will have to take everything apart to see if I can find something wrong. Have any of you seen anything like this before, or can you speculate on the cause. | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
New member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 45 Registered: 2-2002 |
Verell, I just missed you on the other post! Here is what is disturbing to me. I will go double check in the morning but I am sure that this is all correct. 1. the bearing is very tight on the inner race ( I needed a press to get mine on and it still appears to be a very tight fit. I also was mistaken, even though I tightend the ring nut up very tight by hand (but not torqued) I am still experiencing the same very small amount of axial play..... 2. It is also pressed in very tight on the outer race. No movement here, but I will double check tommorrow. I was out there for about 3 hours looking and wiggling the damn thing trying to visualize what is wrong. Here is an observation of mine. I have several of these bearings left over from this proceedure. If you hold the outer race between your fingers you can wiggle the inner race at aproximately the same amount of play I am experiencing at my shaft which is very slight. I was going to put everything back together as several knowledgable people on this list have suggested however I am still sensing something is wrong. My guesses are 1. bad outer bearing, caused by my apparent failure to get the timing pulley on completely. I am thinking about trying to replace it using the secret pulley device I have only heard abaout and trying to desperately locate. 2. Inner bearing. oh no.... but I cannot see how this could go bad since the outer bearing is trapped in the timing cover housing plus there cannot be that much stress on them compared to the outer bearing 3. Mis-aligned cover. I am wondering if my cover is mis-aligned causing my wiggle and the previous failure of that same bearing. It fit on very easily, shaft centering in the inner bearings, all dowel there and lined up and causing no undo drama. 4. I have had several people wiggle the shafts including Ric and a Ferrari mechanic and both said that there was no axial play what so ever in the engines they were examining. Am I wiggling harder than them?? ;-0 I am at a loss, I cannot in all consience put it back together while something is questionably wrong here. maybe since I am not an engineer I am missing out on the finer points of roller bearings? Confused and bummed Rob | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 137 Registered: 5-2001 |
Robert, You do have my sympathy, as you know I'm just finishing up replacing my timing bearings. There are only 3 ways you could have axial play , and I think only one of the ways is consistent with tightening the nut making it go away. They are: 1. The timing shaft is sliding axially in the outer bearing's inner race. (This is the best scenario as tightening the ringnut takes care of it. It's also the best match to your description.) 2. Bearing failure. (I don't see how tightening the ring nut would change the axial play, unless you also took some gear lash out & the gears are preventing the axial play. Try turning the drive nut/pulley counter-clockwise to see if restoring slack in the gears will let the shaft move axially.) 3. The outer bearing race is slipping axially in the timing cover. (See comments to #2.) When it failed, ny original bearing had apparently siezed & spun wearing the cover. The bearing had a noticable amount of axial play between the two retaining c-clips. Thus the pulley would move axially until I used a Loctite product to fix it in place. HOW TO DIAGNOSE: Since you can see the bearing with the pulley off, you should be able to determine which of the above applies: Try holding a scribe or something on 1 race at a time while pushing/pulling the shaft. Notice which (if any) of the race(s) move. If it's just the shaft sliding in the inner race, then you won't feel the race moving. If the bearing's bad, then the inner race will move & the outer race won't. If the outer race is loose in the cover, then both races will move together. Good Luck, | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
New member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 43 Registered: 2-2002 |
David, Thanks for the input. I am wondering what would cause the axial movement I am feeling when the nut is not tight. Remember several people have told me that they have tried to move the same shaft on dis assembled engines and they have experienced no free play what so ever. I guess I am just trying to be sure I dont cause a bearing failure as I have already experienced before. | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
New member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2002 |
Robert, In all probablity, the timing gears nut was not properly torqued when you re-assembled it. In that the nut is of a "self-locking" design, if there is even minute damage to the threaded shaft, or the nut, or the pulley is not down on the shaft...or if everything is not pre-lubed before torque is attempted, your torque meter will be "fooled"... Tighten her up...use the visual reference as Ed describes...and Happy Motoring. Damage..Likely not, as the bearings don't require pre-load! David | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
New member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2002 |
Edward and all, I have heard that there is a way to remove the outer bearing by breaking the race and using a blind bearing puller (which I don't have) to remove the outer bearing. I am worried that some how in the 200 or so miles I drove the car that the bearing was tweaked somehow. Maybe this would be good insurance. It really time consuming on my car to even remove the rear t. cover. It is original and at least 6 studs have to be pulled to get it off. The other side is worse with the AC and I could not remove one nut on the t.cover so I had to pull the w. pump and housing, not to mention the oil pan and oil pick-up tube. But if this is somehow my fault I will do it if I have to. My fear that I take everything apart and it is the same after reassembly....... Rob Rob | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1447 Registered: 2-2001 |
Also make sure the distance from the outer face of the two drive pulley nuts to the outer face of the shafts is about the same. You could probably count the number of threads sticking out. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1446 Registered: 2-2001 |
From your description I believe that the thing did not tighten down properly initially for some reason and that everything is probably OK. Since these are not tapered bearings I do not see how any damage could have occured. I would torque everything down and put the belt back on and turn it over several times with the Balancer bolt and a ratchet and if everything feels good and looks good I would let her go. | ||
| Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
New member Username: Robertgarven Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2002 |
Dear Group, While I was adjusting my carbs, I was checking around the engine bay and noticed that my rear timing pulley was riding at the very back of the drive pulley. I recently replaced the timing bearings after a failure in the rear outer bearing. On closer inspection I noticed that the rear pulley was 1/8" farther away from the timing cover as the front pulley was. I removed the rear cam cover and pulley thinking that the pulley had not gone all the way on because of a mis-positioning of the woodruf key. It turns out that the woodruf key was not damaged but I could not figure out why the pulley was not positioned correctly. While I had everything apart I grabbed the rear timing gear shaft and noticed that it had a minute amount of axial play. I had just replaced both inner and outer bearings and seals etc. less than 200 miles ago. The outer seal is off and the bearing visually looks fine I put the drive pulley back on this time the pulley slipped all the way on as I could hear it touch the outer-bearing inner-race. When I tightened it the axial play went away. I am hoping that someone knows more than I do about this than I do. I talked to two trusted Ferrari mecahnics today, with one saying that if tightened and it does not move then I should be OK, and another who had a very used 308 engine apart who grabed the pulley with the ring nut off and said that there was no movement at all. I have talked to Ric about this last night and he has a timing cover removed ready to assemble and says that it has no axial play on it either. I am not sure what to do. I am not looking forward to taking everything apart again, which took 3-4 days minimum, to replace everything I just replaced. I guess that maybe one of ther bearings could have been damaged if the pulley wasn't all the way on (I torqued them down) but I am wondering since everything feels good when tightened should I just put it back together with a new belt??!!?? Do any of you have any other engines tore down you could inspect? I really like working on my car but was hoping it would make it to Monterrey this year. Rob I am leaning towards Taking it all apart again..... dreading the oil pick-up tube removal (again) |