| Author | Message | ||
| a (Christiank)
Member Username: Christiank Post Number: 291 Registered: 1-2001 |
I visited Nick today and (yes) he is my friend and he (damn) is charging me a lot of money for his work. I saw his (actually it's a company with more than one person, Nick is the boss, of course) work and I was amazed about what I saw. Both race stuff and custom made stuff for street use. This guy knows Ferrari (and loves them and the people who do) and he is charging not enough money for what he is doing. I don't understand why some people (hello Ed) are attacking him personally. Ever realized that he is not getting personal? Maybe it's because he is not having problems with his self esteem. By the way - he is still my friend eventhough he is working on my second Ferrari right now. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2007 Registered: 2-2001 |
Whether they left the turn signal on or not, it still killed them. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 315 Registered: 1-2001 |
You're right that the CO is difficult to recognize until it's too late. CO replaces the Oxygen on the red blood cell receptors. This means you are not getting the oxygen you need. Since they don't detatch like O2, you have less and less places to put the O2. Eventually, you pass out from lack of O2. It's hard to bring someone back because you have to deal with getting the CO out of the blood first. Your right that it's the HC that makes your eyes water (but some people mistakenly equate that to CO). With the new cars and low emissions, I would expect that lack of O2 results in the demise of some of these people who leave their cars running in a closed garage. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1578 Registered: 12-2000 |
Good one Ed  As a welder, I'm often faced with dangerous fumes, but for most quick jobs, I can't be bothered with a face-mask. I think the effect is based more on the person becoming de-sensitized to the fumes, subconsciously ignoring it. Kind of like how people can live on farms, you grow up smelling cow s--- all of your life, you're never really bothered by it. City folk drive through the country side and are turning green in their cars. In any case, none of these fumes are good for you (and I should practice what I preach, by wearing a mask all the time when I weld). | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 835 Registered: 2-2001 |
They probably have the left turn signal on and park on the left side of the garage too. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2000 Registered: 2-2001 |
Paul, Here in Florida we have had numerous cases where older people actually leave their car running put the door down and go to bed but never wake up. This same theory you just posted is somewhat familiar in that it was talked about when one of these incidents occured. Some people leave their keys in the ignition so they will be there when they use the car again, less chance of losing them. The older people it is thought leave the ignition on and the engine is quiet they put the door down and go on to bed. Good idea to take the keys with you. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2001 |
Edward, I must say the gears you had made are quite nice pieces and like I said, if money was no object, I would order a set now. On a serious note, as a tech myself, I have found that the CO has less of an effect on me too but theres more to it. I was told once by a Ford training instructor that CO is stored in your blood more and more as you are exposed to it and the symptoms of CO sickness are masked. The only way to remove the CO from your blood is to go into a decompression chamber. This will bring back the headaches and dizzyness that we once experienced earlier in our careers because our tollerance is gone. The down side to this tollerance is ,and I forget what they called it, something like end stage, means we dont see the signs of CO poisening until its too late. It sort of sneeks up on you. Thats what I was told. Maybe a crock but it sounds reasonable. I still use a hose, new car or old. I also think its the HC that drives you out of the shop with eyes watering, not CO. | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
New member Username: Davem Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2002 |
O.K I got it, for those who read the thread "attempted garage break in" we need a way to figure out when they succeed for the doors to close behind them an the Ferrari of choice to automatically start up leaving the offender dazed an confused r worse! Warning; garage protected by Krank Vent {r not] | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1999 Registered: 2-2001 |
Craig, What you say is true but I still wouldn't want to run a car,even a modern day vehicle, in the garage with the doors shut for hours. People do die from that. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 77 Registered: 12-2001 |
If the krankvent system was proven to reduce the possibility of oil leaks due to reduced pressure, I would buy it for my car to save me the headache of replacing seals. Show proof and I would buy one. I like Eds gear conversion but cant justify the $2000USD it costs for no gain in power. Yes its better than the square tooth setup but the F40 is still using it. If I had nothing else to spend money on, I would order the gears and a krank vent. | ||
| Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
Junior Member Username: Markg Post Number: 123 Registered: 2-2001 |
I added the Krank Vent to my '82 GTSi late last summer but due to electrical problems (now solved) I haven't been able to take a long highway drive to see if there is any dicernable difference in either performance or oil consumtion. I will be duplicating my Colorado -> Las Vegas trip in June, this will be the real test, and I will report my observations! | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 71 Registered: 7-2001 |
IM with Bret here. Ed is a big contributor, is no nonsense and his mod for the 2 valve car timing belt nightmare is simple, reliable ,proven and well thought out. It reflects Ed well and id have to say Ferrari themselves have not offered any higher mileage belts or more durable pulley/bearing systems for the 2 valve cars. With all the interest in Ed's system, they seem to be missing the mark. A diversity of opinion helps in keeping communication open. I have found this board to be the best single source of info on Ferrari's, and also on general car maint and theory of operating issues on the web. Ed has always contributed his basic knowledge and an open honest opinion free of insult or inuendo to anyone who addressed him. Save our battles for the likes of those who killed Daniel Pearl in Pakistan rather than squabble here over something as useless as a vent sytem for compressed polluting gases. Drive ON!! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1690 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think you guys are being a little hard on Edward. One thing is to debate about the krank vent thing, but you guys are taking this a little too far. If you think the krank vent will make you win races, in any form that any of us are involved in, you're being somewhat optimistic. There's no way it can make that much of a HP difference to make up for our imperfect driving (I'm assuming Schumacher isn't signed on FC). For the record, I still like mine and would get it again. Edward has contributed a hell of a lot of time and effort to this site. I think ripping him apart here is a pretty a$$hole way of saying thanks. He's helped me in the passed and I'm sure there are a lot of others that can say the same. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 314 Registered: 1-2001 |
This is an amazing thread and I don't have the time to put down ALL my thoughts but I do have an observation based on the last few comments. I have a Carbon Monoxide monitor in my garage. When I run my newer cars with the cats & emission controls, the CO meter doesn't budge, even after 5 or 10 minutes with all the doors closed. If I start the Ferrari (euro), the meter is shrieking after about one minute and my eyes are watering(doors open). After 5 minutes my wife's eyes are watering and she's in the kitchen... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1998 Registered: 2-2001 |
ED, Seriously, I don't know if you have been reading the papers much but there are still people committing suicide in their garage with their car engine running and others who forget to turn the car off in the garage before they go to bed. These people don't wake up! There must be a bad effect on the human body from this. Just an observation. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Junior Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 219 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ed, Trust me! There are some "ill effects". Open the windows before it's too late!!!!!!! | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 827 Registered: 2-2001 |
Go-Karts that use alcohol fuel need an aux. crankcase vent. If I had a Go- Kart engine in my Ferrari I would also connect some kind of vent system. I have also cut grass for 40 years with a stock Briggs & Stratton engine with the factory crankcase vent in place with no ill effects. It's funny that you mentioned the exhaust vents. When I started repairing cars, if you did not hook up an exhaust hose it would run you out of the shop in a few seconds.The cars I work on run so clean that I do not need a shop exhaust vent. You can leave a running car in the shop for hours with no effects at all. The C/O and H/C meters are pegged at zero. Believe me new cars are more pleasurable to work on than the older ones. The best thing about the computer cars is that they are either right or wrong. You have to satisfy that on board computer or it will tell on you. It's like working with a lie detector hooked up to you at all times. I love working with Emission controls and computer cars. I know that most Ferrari owners think that emissions are for everyone else but them, including myself to be honest, but the best running engines are clean running engines. Go start up a new Honda and see what I mean. Can you imagine what some of the large cities would be like today if not for auto emission controls? | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Junior Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 218 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ed, I am on my way to race go-karts with David Bobe Jr. I plan on installing a Krank-Vent on my go-kart so I can beat David. I do have one last recomendation for you:: when working in your shop, open the windows & doors when the engines are running, all those years with the windows & doors closed are beginning to show there effect. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 826 Registered: 2-2001 |
Paul. I admire you for your defense of a friend and as hard as I try to be angry at you for your comments toward me, I simply cannot because I know deep down you have been misled and deceived by your friend, so since I know better, I can deal with it. What does disturb me though is your comment about taking info off the web that I have no knowledge of and using it to bash someone. Please clarify this because anything I write comes from my personal real world daily experience or a factory claim such as the owners manual that I quoted from in my post. I can read and comprehend well and I did read the web sites that have been refered to in all the postings and have drawn the following conclusion. The vent system in question was evidently designed for a high performance motorcycle that evidently has a history of blowby problems and this device was invented and sold as a performance enhancing device. It was independently tested and showed none of it's claims to be true. It was then marketed to owners of turbocharged Starions and Conquests and Ferraris. It makes no distinction whether the Ferraris were turbocharged or not. One problem here is that I have worked on dozens of these Starions/ Conquests, same car by the way, and have never had a problem with the crankcase vent system in any of them through their lifetime. Most all of them are worn out and in Salvage yards now anyway. Therefore unless the vent system was added to these cars after some performance mods were made, I don't know what problem they were trying to cure and it never states the problems on their site. My conclusions are this: This thing has been invented, it dosen't do what we wanted it to do, Let's try to sell it to someone who doesen't know ant better, to cure I don't know what. This a personal observation only. I again state as I did earlier that this item may have a use on a highly modified engine but not on a stock engine. If that's bashing, then so be it. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1995 Registered: 2-2001 |
I was referring to the David Prall comment. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 1994 Registered: 2-2001 |
David is correct. Quit pickin' the flyshit out of the pepper," It's like it works sometimes using a higher octane gas. Try it if you think it works best for you then use it. The man has already told you it works in the applications he has installed. Either try it or forget it. Nick stands behind what he sells. You won't solve it here. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 825 Registered: 2-2001 |
I dare anyone to come up with one word of bashing one of Nick's products. I am sure they do what they are designed to do if you actually need them. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member Username: Dave Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2001 |
I think all this talk of Krank has gone overboard... Krank is a very bad drug! If you must use speed, drive your car fast, don't use this drug Krank. | ||
| Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
New member Username: Jbk Post Number: 48 Registered: 4-2001 |
I was only interested in understanding the operating theory behind a neat product. An incomplete understanding of the subtlety's of engine design certainly doesn't compare with Nick's operating experience. I still intend to buy a set in the near future. Last post for me on this thread. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Junior Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 217 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ed, I find it so hard to just ignore you, Again with the name calling. Every chance you get you try to sell a product that you designed for a problem no one else has, A product that has had no long term testing and until very recently no short term testing, where a failure would cause thounsands of dollars in repair cost and you made it clear that you can't offer a warranty. It is amazing how you take info off the web from a source you have no background knowledge of and use this info to bash a product Nick is offering and Standing behind again something you will not due. There is a pattern with your attacks on Nick and I think most of us realize it. Hell will freeze over before I apologize, and I wouldn't wait for Nick's either. | ||
| David Prall (Davidpra)
Junior Member Username: Davidpra Post Number: 77 Registered: 2-2001 |
This chat room is becoming worse than a sewing circle! LOL | ||
| David Prall (Davidpra)
Junior Member Username: Davidpra Post Number: 76 Registered: 2-2001 |
WHO THE HELL CARES? | ||
| Chris Kellett (Chrisk)
New member Username: Chrisk Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2001 |
Will some one please just put there car on a good dyno (not a dynojet) and run the car with and with out a krank vent and post the printout and we can all put an end to this. Nick , if you want me to do it I have access to a Mustang MD250 Rolling Road Dyno @ AWE tuning (AWE-Tuning.com). I have a completely unmodified 85 Mondial QV with 35K on the clock. All the best Chris Kellett | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1568 Registered: 12-2000 |
400 postings in this thread... I can see it happening I have a hard time understanding how a vacuum in the crankcase would produce a performance gain. To my understanding (and I'll remind those, that I'm not a mechanical engineer or a physicist) a vacuum behind the piston would cause a drag on it, pulling it back down. That's fine when combustion occurs, but I'm sure that must inhibit somewhat on compression (when the piston is traveling up, increasing volume). I can also see how this vacuum would encourage blow-by, the excessive pressures above the rings would easily over-come it. How can a vacuum help a ring seal? The sealing is done by the ring's spring-expansion, cylinder wall finish and oil retention. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 535 Registered: 1-2001 |
Edward -- I'd agree with your comments about "pirate air" on engine designs where the crankcase vent flow enters the intake system downstream of the air metering device (like below the throttle plates on an older carbed American V-8), but on both my ex-308 and TR the crankcase vent flow enters the air filter airbox upstream of the air metering devices so it's not the same thing (i.e., you can disconnect the crankcase vent hose completely from the airbox, plug the fitting, and the engine wouldn't care at all). In fact, on both the 308 and TR all of the "tweaks" are done with the airbox completely removed and the crankcase vent just dumping to the atmosphere -- I know you know that, but I just wanted to point out that different crankcase vent designs can (and will) behave differently to changes/problems. Are we to 400 yet? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 824 Registered: 2-2001 |
If anyone is interested you can look in your 308 owners manual under Crankcase EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM and it states, and I quote " The Ferrari crankcase emission control system is closed; the oil vapors from the engine heads and the transmission cover pass through a drops seperator and are SUCKED into the air intake because of the vacuum caused by the engine at the idling as well as in all other conditions. In the pipe going into the air intake there is a flame arrestor". This almost exactly what I said in my first answer to the question posted in this string. I did not slam anyone nor anyone's product. I have never slammed anyones product however, I have had a product slammed on this website and was accused of not testing and not having a proven product. The accuser professed how all his products are properly tested and tried and proven but yet he wants the owner of A TR to install and try a product and report back the results using the customer as the test dummy. This is a little two faced to me and I suggest that he combine the two faces and apologize to me with one of them. Now, getting back to the vent system. A crankcase vent is basicly a precisely controlled intake manifold vacuum leak that sucks in crankcase emissions. If you have a vehicle with a closed loop emission system which most Ferrari's from 1983 up do, when and if you change the intake manifold vacuum by changing the size or flow of the designed in orfice or valve you are going to change the amount of air that is registered by the air flow meter and will subsequently change the air fuel ratio since you have introduced what we in the trade call "Pirate Air". This is air that has leaked into the intake manifold that was not counted by the air flow meter or whatever kind your car has. The computer may or may not have enough Block Learn or fuel trim to be able to compensate for this Pirate Air. If it cannot you will get a Check Engine light with a trouble code for possibly "too lean mixture" or "air flow meter". I see this happen almost once a month where a customer will go to Wal-Mart and pick out a PCV valve that looks just like his old one yet has a different flow rate. He then installs it and the problems begin. Rough idle, incorrect idle, hesitation, smoking and the "Check engine light". This is where I then earn my keep, diagnosing the source of the unmetered air. You cannot just hang a bunch of performance parts or uncalibrated parts on a newer car without doing a lot of homework first and having a deep understanding of how a computer car runs and operates. It makes no difference whether it is on a Ferrari or a Toyota the principles of a computer controlled car are exactly the same. Me inexperienced? I was around when the PCV was invented and first required in 1963. It was the first "Free" Emision control device meaning it did not rob any engine power versus letting vapors vent into the atmosphere. | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
New member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2001 |
Paul, keep me informed anyways. I am interested in buying this setup for my 308 as well. I have spent a number of years working on blown, injected alcohol engines in drag boats...we used setups to do almost the same thing in the blower motors to help relieve crankcase pressure (maybe not as nice looking as Nick's setup..but it worked). I just was not sure about normally asperated engines, such as the 8cyl. F cars.. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Junior Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 216 Registered: 3-2001 |
Guys, This may sound like a bit simple, I called Nick and bought one which I will install and if I notice an improvement in my cars performance I will not return it and Nick can keep my money. Based on everything I have bought from Nick chances are real good that i will noticed exactly what Nick says I will. I have bought almost all my performance products from Nick and I have never been un-happy with the results. Nick gets up every morning and goes to work to improve ferrari's I don't think anyone else here earns there living making my car run better. Why i do appreciate all the tech talk and questions with this thread sometimes I wonder if we are not forgetting who is offering the product and how he stands behind everything he sells. If I sound like a Nick cheerleader, I admit I am, because of him I got one very fine Ferrari. | ||
| Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
New member Username: Jbk Post Number: 47 Registered: 4-2001 |
Guess I should have done my research first! Nick has added a link in his site to ET Performance and here's some of what they say about the Krank vents on harleys (it would be interesting to know the peak pressure in the crankcase of an F engine): http://www.et-performance.com/tech_info.html The engine produced 3-7% more horsepower. This is due to the fact that the engine no longer has to waste power further compressing the air in the crankcase as the pistons move downward. At specific RPM, several atmospheres of pressure were found to be present. The KVS maintains a constant vacuum of -5 to -7 psi, depending upon engine tightness, at all engine RPM, a very difficult task to accomplish. Piston rings seal better. For example, strokers, particularly those over 110 ci, always seem to blow oil. The increased crankcase pressures with the strokers causes the rings to not seal properly & flutter. Installing the KVS instantly stops the problem! This is due to the compression rings actually sealing better due to the increased pressure differential across the rings. This causes the compression ring to be forced down on the ring groove so that combustion pressures are contained much better. Racers can actually use less ring/cylinder pressure & greatly reduce the main source of engine friction, further increasing usable horsepower. | ||
| Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
New member Username: Jbk Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2001 |
Steve, no offense taken. I was thinking of the flow losses associated with pumping a certain volume of gas into and out of the crankcase as the pistons cycled. Don't know for sure, but I would think it would be a lot more important with a 2 cylinder harley engine where the pistons move in concert, than an 8 or 12 cylinder engine. As Kermit noted in his earlier post, the Krank vent (check valve) allows the gases to vent while it restricts the air from flowing back in. This should greatly reduce the flow losses. If these losses are really insignificant (which they probably are for an F engine) I don't see the real performance benefit to maintaining the vacuum (I don't think the higher dP across the pistons due to the vacuum is significant either). I don't know much about piston ring sealing, though, maybe that is a positive. One other thing I do like about Nicks Krank vent though, is it does look better than the cross-over pipe feeding the oil/vapor separator and it doesn't appear to be venting into the intake (and it should reduce the oil leaks). | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Junior Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 106 Registered: 5-2001 |
Whether the blow-by gases are ejected to atmosphere or the air filter housing, I don't see how pumping losses would be affected in a measureable way, especially on a multi-cylinder engine. If there is a lot of blow-by, there will be dilution of the intake charge when connected to the air filter housing and this should decrease engine output, which should be measurable. The true test is to run the engine on a dynamometer, with and without the crankcase vent, under the same conditions, or at least normalized to a uniform set of conditions, such as standard temperature and atmospheric pressure. Otherwise, I believe it falls into the category of snake oil. Performance benefits should not be believed unless substantiated by test results. Bill | ||
| ctk (Ctk)
New member Username: Ctk Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2001 |
What kind of performance improvement are we talking about here? Is there a cost/benefit ratio situation here? Why haven't car engine builders adopted this improvement in their engineering? Finally, in what order of F-car engine improvements should installation of Krank vents take place? Maybe someone could start a new thread to list the order of importance of modifications for power improvements for engines, KN airfilter remove cats update ignition system, etc. How about it, could be really interesting and informative. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 532 Registered: 1-2001 |
Jeff -- please ignore the first part of my previous message (I must be too close to the trees ) -- after thinking more about it (which I should have done in the first place) the force gain on the power and intake strokes would be exactly offset by the extra work required on the exhaust and compression strokes (although at lower crankcase pressure I still believe the internal pumping losses would be less). Still I know there must be some benefit as (even though it seems a little like a perpetual motion machine) the serious drag racers run belt driven crankcase vacuum pumps. From the Summit website: "It works by producing high crankcase vacuum, which increases power by improving ring seal, preventing blowby, and detonation. This also allows for the use of lower-tension piston rings for less friction." | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 531 Registered: 1-2001 |
Jeff -- (Move back from the trees so you can see the forest ) The force transmitted to the wrist pin is proportional to the pressure above the piston minus the pressure below the piston so there's a direct benefit to reducing the average crankcase pressure (i.e., reducing the pressure below the piston). Additionally, if the crankcase pressure is varying a lot, this implies that the gases are being pumped around inside the crankcase so there will be associated (small) pumping losses which would also be reduced at lower gas density/pressure. I can appreciate very directly how a Harley V-twin could benefit from a tight crankcase with a good one-way vent valve, but it's less clear to me how much the crankcase volume (and therefore the pressure) would vary in an 8 or 12 cyl F engine. Nick -- Thanks for your kind offer (and I am interested in such things), but it's a fair amount of work -- since I'm not a vendor like yourself, the benefits for me are much more indirect. I do think that if you had such with/without crankcase pressure data it would be a very strong way to confirm/display the effectiveness of the Krank Vent for Ferrari applications. | ||
| Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
New member Username: Jbk Post Number: 45 Registered: 4-2001 |
Steve, Nick, I understand how the Krank vent can reduce the pressure in the crankcase to avoid blowing out the gaskets, but is there actually a benefit to maintaining a negative pressure? If you just opened up the crankcase to atmosphere I would think the pressure would cycle depending on the piston movement. Are eliminating these flow losses through the vent piping what leads to a perf. gain with the Krank vent? Or is it geared more to not applying the pressure swings to the intake manifold? (just the engineer in me wanting to understand an interesting detail). | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
New member Username: Nick Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hi Steve,If you would like,I could send you a set of Krank Vents for a few weeks and you can conduct any tests that you wish.Would you like to try a set on your TR?It would great to have a set on a stock TR & get your thoughts & opinions,we are getting ready to install a set on a TR that we are modifying at the moment,but it would be nice to get some honest findings on a stock TR as opposed to one of our modified engines.Just let me know,you have my e mail adress..Regards.Nick.. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 530 Registered: 1-2001 |
Nick -- (we got off-topic here, but I want to get back) -- any chance you can add a small fitting so that you can measure the actual crankcase pressure both with and without the Krank Vents installed? | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
New member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 48 Registered: 8-2001 |
AMEN | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
New member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2001 |
Yep. The absolute worst thing one can do for the environment is have a kid. Think about all the extra consumption and waste that that kid will create over his/her lifetime, factor in his/her offspring and watch it continue, ha! Maybe they could do like they do with industrial polution: cleaner facilities can trade/sell their credits to polluters so that it all evens out. In other words, scrap the smog test requirements for childless people! Too late for me to be clean: I've got two kids and three DCNF Webers! Thank god for the old car pollution exemption and hope it stays that way. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 529 Registered: 1-2001 |
Dave -- You're right that this is not the right board for this (so this will be my last post on the subject), but both you and Frank make my point so wonderfully I can't resist! "we can do our part to keep our cars clean & legal" yet we can't do our part to have a reasonable number of offspring -- nice logic. And Frank, if you already have a family (i.e., children) you shouldn't even be allowed to have a car! ;) | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 580 Registered: 9-2001 |
I too want to keep the air for me and my family clean. That's why I have always thought that it would be better if only I modified my car and every one else kept theirs stock that we would all be better off. Don't you guys agree ? | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
New member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2002 |
Steve, You are correct. But human genetics programs us to breed. So we're not going to solve that problem on this board. But we can do our part to keep our cars clean & legal, IMHO. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 528 Registered: 1-2001 |
Dave -- I'm not familiar with Nick's exact recommended installation configuration, but utilizing the Krank Vent principle does not REQUIRE that it be vented into the atmosphere -- it could still be vented back into the intake air box as stock system do (which is really even better since on normally-aspirated engines the internal airbox pressure is at most equal to the atmospheric pressure and often below the atmospheric pressure). PS While I appreciate your position about trying to minimizing pollution, I'm always amazed that population control is not at the top of the action list -- IMHO it would be much more effective to get people to not over-populate themselves rather than trying to get a miniscule number of hot-rodders from going catless. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
New member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2002 |
Guys, I hate to bring this up, but venting this stuff into the atmosphere is VERY bad for the quality of the air where you live. The whole reason for PCV's is to reduce the level of this highly toxic crap in the air we breathe. Same for cats. Yeah, they may steal a few HP, but come on! Your kids breathe the same air. Are you really willing to poison them for a few extra HP? | ||
| Matthew J. Morgan (Kermit)
New member Username: Kermit Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2001 |
If I may add a bit in an effort to clarify the issue of Krank Vents.There are many KV knockoffs in the Harley world, but they all use the stock HD "umbrella" valve(Basically a burp valve). Where everyone is missing the point is inside the crankcase and valve cover is air pulses caused by a piston coming down the bore. By the time they get to the valve cover area they are mere puffs. Any spring loaded device will not move under these conditions. The spring pressure alone will insure at least that much pressure build up. The ET Krank vent DOES NOT USE SPRINGS. The moving part I have weighed and found it to be .7 gram. This light weight allows it to vent the positive part of the puff, while it is light enough to close quickly, causing a vacuum buildup. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 525 Registered: 1-2001 |
Nick -- you seem to be quoting the data listed in one of the links (http://www.et-performance.com/tech_info.html) for a 2-cyl. Harley V-twin engine -- which I think would have the maximum benefit from the Krank Vent (if the crankcase is well-sealed as the you noted) since the (relatively small) volume inside the Harley V-twin crankcase varies probably the most of any engine design -- i.e. all of the (two) pistons move up and down almost together (to quote the Prior Art section of the Patent: "This effect is greatest in one- and two-cylinder engines that have both connecting rods attached to a single crankshaft pin, such as is used in Harley-Davidson motorcycles"). If yours is measured data -- what F engine model? | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
New member Username: Nick Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hi.A constant vacuum of -5 to -7 psi,depending upon engine tightness with the Krank Vents.The design has been awarded US Patent 5967178 to relieve crank case pressure & PRODUCE a VACUUM in the crankcase of any engine.The valve material is the same material used in diaphragms that control the flow of coolant through nuclear reactors!The KVS have a lifetime warranty.If you have any other questions,contact me directly.Regards Nick.. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 524 Registered: 1-2001 |
Nick -- do you have any data on the crankcase pressure with and without the Krank Vents? | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
New member Username: Nick Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hi.You will find that if you go back to http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/crankvent_test.htm The site has changed!Intresting!If anyone wishes more info on Krank Vents contact me directly at [email protected] You will probably find more changes to the findings on that website with respect to "KRANK VENTS" developed by Dr.Ted Shrode at ET-PERFORMANCE.We at Nicks forza Ferrari stand 100% behind the products that we develope or represent to our Ferrari customers.Nick Scianna Ferrarichat.com sponsor  | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1626 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'm not sure how Nick's system works exactly, but from what I can tell it is a one way valve that is spring loaded and has some sort of trap or something in there to make sure that even with the valve no oil makes it's way out. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1535 Registered: 12-2000 |
Crankcase vents are nothing new. Years ago Abarth had a kit avaliable that fit on the mech. fuel pump flange on the side of Fiat 600/750/850/... blocks. These in addition to a valve cover vent fitting, all dumped into a vented container. Very effective.  | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1534 Registered: 12-2000 |
That's what I said in response to Richard's question, Bob. So far no one has commented on that. I think the secret of Nick's system is some one-way, spring-loaded valve. The valve opening to the pressure pulsations generated in the crankcase. Maybe these pulsations, regulated by the weight of the spring, actually help scavenge other gases (? my guess) | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
New member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 50 Registered: 9-2001 |
Couldn't the same thing be done by replacing the vent tubes with hoses connected to a vented catch tank , seems it would be a lot less money? | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
New member Username: Nick Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2001 |
The "sounds like sour grapes" I was referring to is the http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/crankvent_test.htm,who knows who they are HOOKED up with!.It had nothing to do with ED on this website.That's why comments like "Obviously someone cannot read and comprehend very well "are uncalled for! With respect to answering Franks question,yes you could install 2 of them ,one on each bank.Are you having oil leak problems on long trips or excessive oil consumption?e-mail me directly at [email protected] I would be glad to answer anyones questions with respect to "Krank Vents" & our oil seperator system combination.Nick.. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 560 Registered: 9-2001 |
I don't know Nick or Edward and have not purchased anything or used either of their services. But,it seems to me that Nick was the first to degrade this subject to name calling. Edward's post #814 only stated his opinion that the Krank vent was not needed for a car in otherwise good condition. It was Nick in his post #33 which started inferring that Edward was sour grapes and continued to get off subject in his post #35. Remember who is trying to sell something when you decide who has sour grapes. I suggest Nick and Edward kiss and make up. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1617 Registered: 2-2001 |
Plus, they look cool as hell, all chromed out. I like taking away all that clutter in the engine compartment from these emissions type things so it appeals to me like that also. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1616 Registered: 2-2001 |
It is undeniable that Nick is one of the best sources of 308 info around. There are very few people in this world that pay as much attention to them as him, or that do as good a job on them as him. BUT, Edward has a point. Switching to krank vents isn't going to make you beat a Corvette the next time you pull up to a stop light. I for one purchased them because my engine had developed some oil leaks and I could use all the venting (lowering of pressure) I could get. I wound up doing this major service before I installed them so I never got any info on them first hand, but I will definitely install them when I put it all back together. I would definitely get them again if I hadn't already. I for one hold Edward's opinion here quite highly as he is most certainly an excellent source of information. Do you NEED krank vents? No. Would they be a nice addition to the 308? IMO, Yes. You don't NEED anything aftermarket on the 308, it will run in stock form. Some of the mods though are worthwhile though. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Junior Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 210 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ed, It is sad that you seem to lower the level of FC by name calling. I have bought several items from Nick and sought his advice numerous times and he has never steered me wrong. Nick makes owning and working on a Ferrari far more rewarding then I ever expected. You seem to go out of your way to be critical of his concepts and in doing so toot your horn regarding your "Knowledge". I am not stupid and I go to Nick when I have a question, he is a proven source of KNOWLEDGE when it comes to Ferrari's and simply put Ed you are not even close. I look forward to what names you will describe me with. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 823 Registered: 2-2001 |
The people on this web site are not stupid. It seems that someone is paranoid and is having a problem with someone with some knowledge comming on and answering a question and telling the truth and not always selling something that you don't necessarily need. I'll sleep whenever I damn well please. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 559 Registered: 9-2001 |
Nick, but you never responded to my post. Can it be used on a 348 ? If so, how would I hook it up ? | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
New member Username: Nick Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hey ED GO TO BED!I was responding to Frank Parker's post CTK's & ULF's as I sell allot of Krank vents and I have very happy customers who have noticed a improvement even in their stock Ferrari's. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 822 Registered: 2-2001 |
Obviously someone cannot read and comprehend very well. | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
New member Username: Nick Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2001 |
The Krank Vents work in the Ferrari application for the 308/328 engines,I have them on my own cars which I DRIVE EVERY DAY!!! 3 308's in the Scianna Stable TO BE EXACT!With respect to the factory crank case venting system on a 308,it is inadequate under high performance driving Period!On the 308 & 328 series engines,you can hear & feel the difference when you change the venting system.You maybe want to check out www.et-performance.com they have dyno tests also and happy clients including guys like Ed Law who owns Total seal Rings,I am sure you have heard of those piston rings before,and while you are there check out the US patent on the vent system.Sounds like someone has sour grapes to me!I am happy with my Krank Vents! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 391 Registered: 6-2001 |
I always wondered what QED stood for, my math teacher used to write it next to proofs but didnt say what it stood for, now i know. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1528 Registered: 12-2000 |
There would probably be alot of liquid in that vapour, so you should route it to a catch-tank and then vent to the atmosphere with a little K&N (If you think your current set-up is unnecessarily comsuming oil and want to just release it into the air). A catch-tank is required in racing cars (oil and coolant). | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
New member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2001 |
I replaced the stock air filter set up on my DCNFs on the dino motor with a performance one that has no provisions for the breather tubes that used to go into the bottom of the stock air cleaner set up. The vendor supplied brass fittings and new breather tubes and the length and shape of them led me to believe that the fitting was to be pushed through the foam filter and then the hose slipped onto it. It looks pretty cool. But I've become concerned about the fact that the breather tubes are now right above the carbs and the vacuum created by the carbs is basically sucking on the tubes. The breather tubes come out of the oil filler pipes which are right on the end of the cam boxes where there is naturally a lot of oil action and it's pretty much open all the way to the sump. Could this set up be contributing to how much oil the engine is using by sucking vapor and/or oil out of the breather tube? What kind of alternative set up is there? Can I simply mount one of those K&N filters on the end of the oil filler where the breather tube would attach, or attach the hose and put the filter on the other end? thanks in advance, Rich | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 816 Registered: 2-2001 |
I standeth by my statementeth. | ||
| ctk (Ctk)
New member Username: Ctk Post Number: 23 Registered: 7-2001 |
Hey Edward,Ulf, Q.E.D. (Quod Erat Demonstrandum) The theory is proven. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 814 Registered: 2-2001 |
As long as the stock crankcase vent system is in good working order and your engine rings are in good shape, I see no advantages to an external crank case vent system. The factory system will actually scavenge more internal gasses than venting it to the atmosphere would since it is actually sucking the vapors out rather than them having to be pushed out on their own. If you are running an extreme performance IE racing or high boost turbo or supercharged engine where excess crankcase pressures are produced then yes it would be an advantage but on a street engine I would have to say no. I do not have one on my cars. | ||
| Ulf Modig (Ulf308qv)
New member Username: Ulf308qv Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ctk, The dyno doesn't lie. Will you be at Sepang race track March 17? It would be nice to se your Koenig 308 if you are driving up north. BR/Ulf | ||
| ctk (Ctk)
New member Username: Ctk Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2001 |
Thanks Ulf. The info. is most valuable. Too many conflicting posts on how things work (or hope to work) rather than tested results. | ||
| Ulf Modig (Ulf308qv)
New member Username: Ulf308qv Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2001 |
Some interesting reading regarding crank vent on HD bikes as well as dyno charts. http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/crankvent_test.htm | ||
| ctk (Ctk)
New member Username: Ctk Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2001 |
My thoughts exactly. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 555 Registered: 9-2001 |
How about it Nick or Edward, do these things really work ? And if so, how would you hook one up to a 348 engine ? Couldn't I just use a PVC valve and not run it into the intake ? What say you ? |