| Author |
Message |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1605
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 7:47 pm: | |
It will take quite a bit of cranking time for the fuel system to purge itself of all the air introduced when the tank was removed. When I removed my tanks I used some ether to get mine started but has not missed a beat since. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 285
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 6:40 pm: | |
What do you mean you can hear it working but wont start.You mean the pump sounds on and the car wont start.??? Re-post 308 wont start in new thread. This thread is old and only looks like a/c thread.I'll be looking for it. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 37
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 3:05 pm: | |
OK the 308 is all back together with new a/c hoses, fuel hoses and clamps, etc., etc. When I turn on the ignition I can hear the fuel pump working but it won't start. In fact at first it sounded like an air leak but I traced it to the fuel pump-I can feel it pumping, however it still sounds like an air leak. What am I missing here?? Help!! Roger B. Note, before I took it apart, I couldn't hear the fuel pump. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 275
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 3:11 pm: | |
Good job. Get someone to evacuate and weigh in 2.2.lbs of freon for you and you are good to go. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 35
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 6:33 pm: | |
Just finished installing new a/c hoses and clamps including new fuel lines, cleaning up the under carriage repairing the belly pan and air dam, correcting some wiring, replacing the 2 raiator cooling fans, repairing the 2 rear vent tubes, painting the inner fender panels, installing a new engine oil sump gasket, detailing the engine compartment, etc.,etc. Now I'm going to replace the 2 fuel filters and start putting everything back together. I want to thank everybdoy for all the advice-it sure made it a doable do and now that the tough part is over it wasn't really that difficult. Certainly better that paying someone thousands to do it. Thanks again for the help. Roger B. |
phil hooper (Wolftalk)
New member
Username: Wolftalk
Post Number: 23
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 8:27 pm: | |
assuming you put the low side hose through first, what worked for me was making sure the low hose was snug against the forward end of the oval hole in the top of the frame rail (pull it from the front a litle). Then route the high side hose behind it. Push the high side hose down through the upper hole, and use your right hand to guide the fitting on the high hose into the oval hole.
You are doing this blind, as your fingers are behind a metal plate. If you have a mirror, you can see the hoses around the right side of the plate...that's where your fingers also need to go.
When the fitting bottoms out, pull on the rope/wire to make the fitting turn the bend. It won't take very much effort, and it's pretty easy to push/pull the rest of the hose through since it's sliding around the outside radius of the low side hose.
If you are trying to pull the hose through from the front without doing the above, the rope/wire will force the fitting to the front of the oval hole, and the low side hose will be in the way.
I managed to install both hoses by myself in less than 20 minutes using rope and the front brake rotor as a pulley (see the '89 a/c mystery thread for the rest of the details). |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 4:29 pm: | |
I'm having a hard time getting 2nd hose past the turn in the hose tunnel. Any suggestions??? |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 33
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:06 am: | |
Update on the hose replacement---I had a local shop fab. 2 new a/c hoses($122) which I didn't think was too bad, and installed one of them and intend of putting the other one in today. Bruno, I took your advice and got the x-over hoses from GT Auto Parts in Phoenix and installed them and also put 5 new fabric covered hoses on the top of the tank(all with new clamps). I Attached a wire to the hose fitting to assist in pulling the hose thru the tunnel and I hope the second hose slides thru there-the space is limited, but I'll get there. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 252
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 11:06 am: | |
unfortunately I had to go to the Ferrari dealer where I am. The american size hoses do seem to leak if not right away soon.. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 27
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 11:02 am: | |
So far fortunately, I've not spent very much money on my 308, mainly because I've and you people on the chat have helped me do the work myself. I just have a passion for cars and I can't afford to sub-contract everything outside. Even if I could afford it I still believe I'd do it myself because I love the learning experience and the commaradery. Bruno, do you have a source for the metric hoses for the bottom? I replaced the hose from the driver's side tank to the fuel pump system and I believe it was 5/8" I.D. and it slid on the nipples very snuggly. How about the top hoses also? In my little town I doubt if anyone carries metric hose sizes. Roger B. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 248
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 8:46 pm: | |
Take your time. I've found no matter how bad the problem on a 308. Time and of course money for parts always get you there.
ps
make sure you get correct metric size hoses for bottom of tanks.I tried using very close US Standard conversion and they leaked . |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 5:37 pm: | |
Yes, I'm going to replace all the hoses and clamps, now is the time to do it and hopefully never again! and yes I would do it over again just for a/c. This thing is about like working on an airplane, so I'm kind of used to it.However I'm not finished yet, it has to all go back togeather and work the way its supposed to. So the fat lady has not started to sing yet. This is also a very good learning experience. Roger B. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 243
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 12:16 pm: | |
Would you take it apart again just for a/c? |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 242
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 12:14 pm: | |
When my tanks were out I replaced all the fuel lines and clamps. Including the hoses on the botonm to the crossover tube. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 25
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 12, 2002 - 9:50 pm: | |
O.K., I'm going for new hoses and I removed the fuel tank this afternoon, not a particularly pleasant task. Tomorrow I'll get the old hoses out and get things ready for reassembly Mon. Guess while the fuel is out, I'll repalce the fuel filters also. Any words of wisdom for the filter R&R or the hose installation. Thanks, Roger B.
|
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2002 - 11:03 am: | |
Thanks for the advice/ideas. Right now I'm leaning toward new hoses. The old ones are very hard and brittle. I'm worried about inserting the barbed end and breaking inner hose chunks loose and into the system. Also worried about the old hosescracking apart internally due to all the flexing to gain access to do the crimping. I feel that replacing the hoses is the correct way to do it, I'm just worried about getting the new hoses thru the limited spaces provided. I'll go down to the local NAPA store today and see if the even have the crimping tool. I'll make a decision on this by sat. and go from there. Roger B. Thanks! |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 236
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2002 - 10:49 am: | |
With that tool it sounds like u will be o.k. Better than a clamp job. |
Erik R. Jonsson (Gamester)
New member
Username: Gamester
Post Number: 26
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2002 - 2:56 am: | |
I got a barbed fitting off a stock setup on a chevy van... many OEM applications use barbed fittings, plus with a $900 deposit at NAPA they will let you use their professional crimping tool with ends that will not leak. NAPA AC book shows all the barbed fittings and they are less than $10 each. I spliced mine and it worked fine. I discovered a leak in my system at the pressure switch next to the dryer- GT Car Parts carrys the replacement switch. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 231
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 1:02 pm: | |
I think the barbed fittings and clamps will leak. I dont know how fast but would bet on leaking. I would Get new hose end to end and be done with it.. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 23
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 11:31 am: | |
almost forgot, I've checked the Shrader valves and they're O.K. Roger B. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 - 11:28 am: | |
No, I just pulled the hose thru the body from the condensor to the wheel well. Sorry I was confusing. I'm still trying to decide if I want to remove the tank and replace both hoses. I stopped by a local shop that makes the hoses and they suggested repairing it by using barbed fittings and hose clamps. They said it works o.k. for R-12 but not R-134. What do you think. I'll be running the new hose from aft to forward. And I've decided to use the existing compressor(York)-it blew pretty cold pre-hose leak last summer. Thanks a million for you advice/help. I'm not there yet but getting closer. Roger B. |
Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Junior Member
Username: Ricrain
Post Number: 176
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 4:31 pm: | |
I've seen several 308s with slow, annoying, & hard to detect leaks around the Schrader valves. They're cheap to replace, so it might be a good idea anyway. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 220
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 12:48 pm: | |
You lost me. Did you remove the old hose entirely?
Yes you have to unhook all hoses and clamps to drop tank out.If its the same size hose it wont kink on the bend up past the fender well (at least mine did not).I think (I never did it) that you can route the new hose with the fitting on through the same original location from rear to front.I suspect you must remove old hose to make room.I know you can in the channel underneath. Keeping the curved 90 degree fitting in the rear for the compressor. Tell me what way you are rtunning hose. I can tell you stepo by step. Also if in Arizona you might consider compressor upgrade.Did you get a new hose made yet. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 08, 2002 - 8:58 pm: | |
O.K. I've removed the passenger inner fender panel, clipped the hose and removed the fitting. Then I(with great difficulty) pulled the hose thru the body and out down out of the fender well. If removing is any indication of how difficult it will be to install.......... . I'm now contemplating changing both hoses, I've gone this far. Do you have to install the fittings after the hose is run thru the fender well and body to the condenser or will it fit thru there with the fittings installed(I hope)? If I decide to remove the fuel tank, do I have to completely drop the tank with all the hoses disconnected or just take the straps off and lower the tank to gain access to the hose tunnel? Do I feed the new hoses from the rear to the front? If I don't change both hoses and run one thru the rocker panel opening, when it comes thru the opening of the fender well I would have to make a severe bend in the hose to go upward-will I kink the hose and how much difficulty will there be in installing the inner fender panel with the hose interference? If I didn't live in Arizona I think I'd do without air!!!!!!!! But I'll get there with your help and advice. Thanks, Roger B.
|
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 214
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 08, 2002 - 12:10 pm: | |
Exactly. Leave old hose in cut back so u dont see it no more. Get as much old hose with fittings when you cut them for matching up purposes. The dimensions are written on the side. It is standard u.s. hose not metric. You might also want to do them both now and be done with it.If I get time I will figure out how much more freon to add per foot more of new hose. It wont be much. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 19
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 9:27 pm: | |
Bruno, thanks for the advice. Just so I understand, I should cut the existing discharge off at the front and rear and leave the old hose in place(or do I remove it??). Have a new hose fabricated to the dimensions measured, then route the new hose down behind the fuel tank into and thru the rocker panel to the front passenger wheel well and up between the body and frame and connect to the condensor. I like this approach much better than dropping the tank. Thanks again, Roger B. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 202
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 5:40 pm: | |
You got to remove the gas tank to replace in the same manner it was installed. OR I have cut both ends off leaving as much hose behind the fittings as possible, had new hose made a little longer than that hose (i think it was 172"just measure it out with string then lay string out flat and measure string with tape measure,a little longer wont hurt. just add extra ounce or 2 of refrigerant) and ran it in the channel under where the hoses are now run.It takes a little doing but you will see what I am talking about.Look in front of paassenger rear tire.The channel is wide open. I took the tires off the passenger side and moved the wheel panels to get into it.A litle custom work but I think it beats dropping tank.And if you ever do go engine out and / or drop tank you can always move it up to the original location at that time. Or unhook all gas lines,clamps,etc. Drop tank. It all depends on how bad/fast you want air. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1548
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 9:35 pm: | |
If the overall condition of the hose is good, you can get a splice connector and add a new section of hose to the old section without replacing the whole hose. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 4:22 pm: | |
O.K., I'm finally back working on the 308 and I found a leak in the discharge hose from the compressor, It had rubbed itself on the fuel tank strap. So now the question is, how do I replace it? It goes all the way to the front of the car to the condensor. Does anyone know the procedure for R&R? Is it a simple matter of disconnecting and pulling it forward or aft to get it out? How about the installation? Help Bruno! Roger B. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 177
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 9:46 pm: | |
27 isnt that good. You should hear the leak with nitrogen. Do not exceed 300psi. If you dont hear it . Then go the dye route. This way has added expense between the dye and the freon you will lose but the leak will show yellow. Concentrate on the spots I told you. Remove the front underhood cover PT#60351905. This exposes more areas of the cooling system. |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 176
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 8:06 pm: | |
My 84 308 had a slow leak when I bought it in 97. The previous owner (who used to own a dealership and many many Ferraris) was convinced it was a fitting near the compressor.
It turned out to be the little valve that looks like the kind in a tire. I replaced it for under $8 and it has not leaked since. Five years later and no leaks. It blows as cold as a Honda.
Seriously, replace that little thing first before dumping a ton of time and cash into it. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 7:33 pm: | |
Bruno-the gage reading was about 27, couldn't get more than that. The a/c worked fine last winter, didn't use it again til April and it was not blowing cold. I have a friend that has a nitrogen bottle and maybe we will try that next, unless you have any other ideas. We checked the hoses and they were ok, checked all the stuff under the underhood cover and that was also ok. David-haven't tried the dye yet, just the probe and like I said-the alarm went off just around the compressor fitting and that seal was replaced. So I still need help. Thanks guys. Roger B. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 138
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 11:41 am: | |
The gauge reading would tell me how big it is. The hoses from front to rear are all 1-piece. If you remove the front underhood cover (Ferrari Part#60351905) You will get access to more areas to check. I wouldnt be looking to go into evap. yet. If leak is big enough you will hear with nitrogen. You can use compressed air but it is very unkind to drier.But with a (double or triple evacuation technique) you should dry it back out.
How long does freon last if you were to charge car today??? If a few days fill it with flourescent solution and use car with a/c. Infrared light will show it.It will show bright yellow. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 9:40 am: | |
Thanks for the input. We used the probe/alarm system for trying to find the leak/s, thats how we found the bad seal on the compressor. After that was fixed, everything else was probbed and no alarm but the system wouldn't hold a vacuum. Are there any hose connections inside the body panels and how do you gain access to the evaporator? I don't remember what the gage went down to when we evacuated but we could do it again if that info would help. |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 137
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 5:52 pm: | |
Where the hoses go under the heat shield. They get cut there a lot from vibration.Also at compressor seal behind clutch. Fill with nitrogen a leak the size you are talking about will be heard.Dont exceed 300 psi with nitrogen.If it is a slow leak the flourescent (dye) solution is now available at auto part stores but you must evacuate,recharge and run system for a while cause it only works after it comes in contact with the oil in the a/c system and circulates all around. What does the gauge go down to when you evacuate? |
David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Junior Member
Username: Fastradio2
Post Number: 62
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 5:32 pm: | |
Roger,
Re-charge her with some UV dye/oil...
With a "black light", the leak should be obvious.
David |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 5:01 pm: | |
I've been trying to find the slow freon leak in my 308 to no avail. The compressor had a leak at one of the fittings and I replaced the teflon seal, the system was evacuated twice and pucked out some "stuff", but it just won't hold a vacuum. Also probbed everthing I could reach in the engine compartment and the plumbing in the front of the car and near the cowling and no alarm went off. Could there be a leak in the hoses that are hidden or maybe even worse-a leak in the evaporator connections??? Need advice, its hot here!! Thanks, Roger B. |