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Message |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 190
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 7:51 pm: | |
Ed makes sense but my 308 starts after about 20-30 seconds of key turned, pump gas 1-2 times and it is fine.The presure is high on that pump it should refill the bowls within 20-30 seconds. If you listen carefully you can hear when they are full and the bypass is in the circuit.At this point 1-2 pumps should start car.choke on and thats it. I am questioning emission controls, if the fuel pressure is good. It probably is if car runs out fine after it is eventually started. |
Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Junior Member
Username: 308gtb
Post Number: 142
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 5:25 pm: | |
I agree with Ed. Fuel injection eliminated the protracted starting and warming up procedures necessary with the carburetted 308s but, as such, these are not "problems." The owner's manual specifies detailed >60 degrees, <60 degrees, and hot starting procedures. That's how it is with carburettors. As I said before, consider it part of the "charm" of owning a carburetted 308.
I have a bit more respect for the classic Le Mans running start now.
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Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Junior Member
Username: 308gtb
Post Number: 141
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 5:22 pm: | |
I agree with Ed.
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Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 4:51 pm: | |
On any carburetted car, if you let it sit for an extended period of time the fuel will evaporate from the carb and fuel lines and will have to be filled and purged of air before the thing will start. No amount of adjustments or overhauling are going to stop this problem. Fuel evaporates and that's the way it is. |
Burnell P. Curtis (Burnell)
New member
Username: Burnell
Post Number: 31
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 9:45 pm: | |
I too have a difficult to start 75 308 GT4. I turn the key on for about 20 to 30seconds and then I pump it MORE than two or three times. I then crank it and pump more. It usually fires quickly but more pumping is sometimes necessary. In south Texas I never use the choke. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 259
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 8:06 pm: | |
Neville,
When I start my car after its been sitting for a long period of time, it's also troublesome to start.
I wait 30 seconds for the fuel pump to charge all the carb bowls. I then pump the accelerator once then hold it a couple of seconds and repeat the pumping process a second time.
When the ignition is turned on, I put the choke on about 3/4 of the way and I'll pump the accelerator, with short strokes, while cranking and until it runs steady. This usually lasts about 10-15 seconds. Once a steady fast idle is attained, I'll slowly close the choke to about a 1/2 setting and over a period of about 30 seconds or so, I'll adjust the choke to about 1/4 on. After about a minute, I'll disengage the choke completely and it'll idle fine. I do not have the fast idle adjustment mechanism enabled yet but will by the end of the week. This may have an effect on my starting proceedure. |
Neville Pugh (Nevpugh68)
New member
Username: Nevpugh68
Post Number: 49
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 3:23 am: | |
Hans / Allen / Don,
Ah, that's the fist time I've heard about the "gentle pumping" (ahem, oo err !) method, I'll give that a go !
Brilliant, thanks :-)
Nev |
Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member
Username: Litig8r
Post Number: 77
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 5:58 pm: | |
Mine works best about the same way that Hans describes. '78 308. |
Allen Cook (Alcook62)
New member
Username: Alcook62
Post Number: 24
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 5:58 pm: | |
My starting procedure, through trial and error, almost mirrors Hans. I turn the key and let the fuel pump run for about 30 seconds, fully pump the accelerator 2 times, depress the throttle about 1/3, start the car, and when it catches I "feather pump" the gas pedal 2-3 times until it runs steady at around 1500 RPMs. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
New member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 45
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 5:05 pm: | |
Just another data point on carb 308 starting:
I pump once, hold throttle at about 1/4 - 1/3 or so. Start. If I hold the throttle constant, it will die *every* time. So when it first fires, I pump two or three times rapidly, but very shallow. It will then hold a 1500 rpm or so idle with the throttle lightly depressed. After about 10 seconds, it idles normally. |
Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Junior Member
Username: 308gtb
Post Number: 139
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 4:49 pm: | |
Neville,
I consider the cold starting routine part of the "charm" of owning a carburreted 308. Once the engine starts, you're rewarded well.
As far as the choke, I should mention that when I do use the choke, I set it about halfway down and not full rich. That setting, for my car, seems to work on extremely cold days.
Barry |
Neville Pugh (Nevpugh68)
New member
Username: Nevpugh68
Post Number: 46
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 3:27 am: | |
All, thanks for your feedback !
Lawrence - the carbs have a manual choke.
Barry - I dont tend to use the choke. It was set up by a specialist about a year ago (so I *think* it's set okay) but if I use it a) she will not start at all and b) if I turn the choke on when she's actually running (just started) then all it seems to do is bog the engine down, almost stalling it ... the carbs go all "sucky" in sound, like she's being strangled or over choked.
Steve - yes, mine does have that device. When I first spotted it, the cam was backed off so far it never ever touched. I messed around with it, setting it so it would activate the carbs a touch when cold, but this made things worse (just kind of over fuelled the engine, I think) so after playing for I while I backed it virtually all the way off. It barely does anything now.
Bruno - ooh eck, how on earth do I measure fuel pressure ?!?
Thanks !
Nev |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 171
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 2:33 pm: | |
Whats the fuel pressure? |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 805
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 11:55 am: | |
Neville -- Does your euro 308GTS have the thermo-mechanical fast idle device (on the top of the water pipe that connects the two cyl. heads) that holds the carb throttle plates more open when the coolant is cold? If so, do you know if it's presently adjusted to be active or in-active? |
Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Junior Member
Username: 308gtb
Post Number: 137
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 11:52 am: | |
Neville,
It seems you are following the owner's manual instructions for cold starting. I start mine the same way, but I let the fuel pump run for about 15-20 seconds. I listen closely for fuel reaching the carburettors. If the weather is very cold, below freezing, sometimes I experience what you do. In that case, I use the choke and follow the recommendation in the owner's manual, depressing the accelerator peadal about 1/3 travel and that does the trick. I've only resorted to using the choke a few times in very cold weather.
Barry |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 78
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 11:32 am: | |
What kind of choke mechanism do the carbs have? |
Neville Pugh (Nevpugh68)
New member
Username: Nevpugh68
Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 7:11 am: | |
Um, difficult to say really, as usually it's misfiring when I'm sat in the drivers seat, trying to keep the engine running with the gas pedal. Plus, it doesn't last long enough to really tell.
Oh, one other point to mention, when I take the spark plugs out they're all nice and "brown", no heavy sooty or oily deposits. If that's of any use.
Thanks, N |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 76
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 6:23 am: | |
Can the misfiring be isolated to one bank of cylinders? Or are both sides missing? |
Neville Pugh (Nevpugh68)
New member
Username: Nevpugh68
Post Number: 39
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 4:24 am: | |
I know this one has been done to death before on this list, but I'm running out of ideas and things to try ! (appologies in advance for long post, but there's a lot of history / info here)
My euro 308GTS carb has always (since I got her, 20 mths ago) been a pain to start when cold. And, more specifically, a pain to start when cold AND BEEN LEFT FOR A WEEK OR MORE WITHOUT RUNNING. If I run her every day, she'll start sweet as anything. If I run her one day, then the next she'll start fine, but if I leave it 2 or 3 days she'll be grumpy for the first minute or so, if I leave it 1 week she'll be very difficult to start, if I leave it 2 weeks, she'll be nigh on impossible to start for 4 or 5 minutes (and before anyone says "use her every day !" I'd love to, but work / family commitments dont always allow ! :-)
Now, when I start her I let the fuel pump run for 30-60 seconds first, then pump the accellerator pedal fully a couple of times, then keep the accellerator pressed a tiny bit, then start up. (I've found this is by far the best way, any other way just involves a lot of churning and no starting). She'll fire instantly, burn off the fuel in the chambers, then stall. Nothing I can do with keep her running. Repeat a few times, and eventually she'll just manage to keep running, running on what sounds like 5 or 6, then 7, then 8 cylinders. After she's up and running, she'll run sweeter than a sweet thing for ever and a day ! (it's just this cold starting that's getting me down). Now, the trouble with starting like this is that a) all that churning b) dumping all that fuel into the cold chambers c) when she does fire, she'll rev hard up to 3000 rpm .... all that CANNOT be doing the engine any good at all ....
So, what have I tried so far ? New plugs (tried Nippon Denso splitfire plugs recently, just to see if it'd make any difference), new leads, the dizzy cap (single) and rotor arm both appear fine. I've had my local specialist check the car over twice (they can't find anything wrong with her, or why she's doing it), they've stripped and checked the carbs and set them all up properly a couple of times, and she's got good compression. In every other way she runs like a dream.
Any other thoughts on what I could check / replace / try ? I'm starting to run out of ideas. I've even considered buying a Kenlowe per-heater to warm the engine up first, to see if that would solve the problem .... just seems like I'm curing the symptom not the disease, if I do that though .....
Any thoughts gratefully received
Nev
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