| Author |
Message |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 1:05 am: | |
Beat you to it Erik, I got about 5 gal. sitting in the backyard. When my car was still on the road, I put it in...very smooth... |
Erik Jonsson (Gamester)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 11:15 pm: | |
Most if not all cars post 72 were designed for unleaded fuel. Lead (tetra ethyl lead) acts as a "cushion" for the valve seats and keeps them from being hammered into the head(causing the valve to cam follower clearance to lessen.)
They simply started using Hardened valve seats then. Lead also adds octane therefore ping resistance. If you want the good stuff and are still concerned about "needing" lead, take a gas jug to the airport and buy 100LL fuel(100 octane LO Lead) and add a gallon to every fillup. Cost~$2.25/gal |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 10:40 pm: | |
I saw it buddy, I could feel your adrenalin rush here in Florida. Thats a great feeling. Tomorrow should be another good day. If you feel yourself getting discouraged don't push it. Relax, back up 30yds and punt,then have some more Sutter Homes and a little Jack Daniels as a chaser. Tomorrow is always another day.Congrats, MAGOO |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 10:17 pm: | |
MAGOO, see my cylinder head removal posting. |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 12:43 pm: | |
Peter I purchased a bottle of the lead substitute. It says ,it contains petroleum distillates. Which I find very vague. It also says it "Replaces Lead Protection". I think I'm going to use it because if it gives the same protection that lead gave it then this is good since they probably never beefed up the upper cyl. when unleaded fuels dominated the U.S. market. Your statement of valve seat protection is correct. However in your case, since You have the engine totally apart, I would replace the guides with the Phosphor Bronze guides which Mark mentioned. I've used them before and I feel that they are the best. MAGOO |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 9:37 am: | |
P.S. Peter, Sorry for misreading your comments. Then your car could have had unleaded fuel or leaded fuel used in it prior to you acquiring it last summer. I agree about using unleaded fuels in these older cars and maybe some of the later ones since this problem of soft guides is surfaceing. THANKS, MAGOO |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 9:14 am: | |
Peter, Thanks for your response. My car is a 79 308 with very low mileage That's why I am beginning to wonder about these worn valve guide problems. However I don't think it is only the older cars I think the problem still exist in later models as Herbert says. Also this is not lead but a lead substitute. I will pick up a bottle and post the contents. If you have been using leaded fuel all this time you may not have a problem. Unless the prior owner always used unleaded. The reason I believe that this may help the situation is I've experienced this product being used in cars built in the 50,s 60's and 70,s. Collectors say that it is as necessary as changing your oil on older vechicles that ran on leaded fuel. MAGOO |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 3:09 am: | |
For FI cars, I think the lead would foul-up the sensors in the exhaust system.
Can someone straighten this out for me seeing as the topic of lead substitue has been brought up? My car here on this forum is probably the oldest and was around during leaded times. I've been using unleaded gas ever since I got it last summer. I've read that this is okay, but my gut feeling is that its not. Will I expect a "surprise" when I pull the heads off (hopefully sometime this weekend)? |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 10:43 pm: | |
Hey Guys, Not to beat a dead horse, no pun intended, but those of us who have low mileage Ferraris I wonder if we should consider using a lead substitute. We know it is inevitable that the guides are going to wear out why not take a precaution. Again I'm not saying it's right for all cars such as F.I. cars which have seals in the system, but maybe it is okay. Let's hear some Pros and Cons on this. Is there a chemist amongst us. Comments please. MAGOO |
Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 4:09 pm: | |
Some of the late model small block Chevrolets also have valve guide wear at higher mileage, and guess what else I own. |
Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 11:18 am: | |
I had a '69 911 S Porsche that also had factory designed soft guides. Porsche's reasoning was that new guides are cheaper than new valves, therefor it designed the guides to wear rather than the valves. I replaced them with Phosphor Bronze guides from Automotion, maybe there is a similar option for Ferrari?
p.s. listed house Tuesday - hope to be in Ferrari market soon!! |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 10:38 am: | |
Hey Peter, nice to hear from you again. Back in the 70's G.M. as well as Ford. had a run of valve guides wearing out. Ford even made a tool that was used on the bench to R&R the guides on their 351 Windsor& Cleveland engines,and replace them with a new heavier duty guide. They would only allow us to replace the ones that were worn. Sounds typical. As if the others weren't going to wear out later. This campaign was done because of the excessive heat build up in the cylinder and there was no lead in the gas to lube them. I'm sure it helped the valve seats as well. MAGOO |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 3:13 am: | |
Erik: I'm very close to getting a COMPLETE oil hose assembly from one of our suppliers, banjo included. No need to cut off and weld on the old banjo.
It is my understanding that the lead was used to replenish the valve SEATS. Am I wrong?
I didn't have a problem getting all of the parts from the dealer, but I do agree of the outrageous prices for alot of them. I'll mention this again of the fuel tank outlet filter being $357 Cdn! I made my own. The original was a fine-mesh plastic screen, I had a small piece kicking around in my garage. Distributor caps at $495 Cdn EACH!!! Good thing mine are still in good shape. Nothing was in stock, everything had to be brought in from FNA...4 weeks, even something as simple as the main fuel filter (there are quite a few 308's up here, you think this would be avaliable). |
Erik Jonsson (Gamester)
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 2:30 am: | |
I hadn't made the connection till you said something...Every dealer I have visited gives me the impression that they wish the older cars would disappear. I am sure this has something to do with their outrageous pricing for stock parts. I am still wanting a new or used rear 308 window and am not willing to pay 600+ for it. Someday I will luck into one...
I am still looking forward to everyones inputs on where to find substitute parts, as most auto mfgrs outsource their parts. |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 6:56 pm: | |
This is certainly true. Those of us who have low mileage cars and have'nt gotten to that stage yet have this to look forward to. Remember when they removed lead from gasoline and the american auto manufs. had to beef up the valve guides in the cars because there was no lead to lubricate them. "GUNK" came out with a lead substitute just for this reason. I know various old car collectors who use this product and swear by it. It should work in the carb. models without any problem, but I don't know about F.I. cars. I am not recommending this for all cars but I have used it for years in my old collectibles with no problem. What is your thinking on this. Just a thought to kick around. MAGOO |
Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 5:29 pm: | |
Because we allow them to that's why. If Ferrari's sales lagged because of an inferior product then they would do better, but until we demand better, don't expect it. The definition of an idiot is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. They could care less about an older Ferrari car, it is obsolete and they wish they would just go away. |
Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 5:23 pm: | |
Because we allow them to that's why. If Ferrari's sales lagged because of poor sales because of an inferior product then they would do better, but until we demand better, don't expect it. The definition of an idiot is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. |
Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 10:48 am: | |
Everybody knows that Ferrari`s weak point is soft valve guides. Why is that, don`t they have better? I just finished my cylinder head job and put modern valve guides ( not Ferrari )and not Teflon valve stem seals. When you replace your valve guides, do you put the same •••• back that you can soon enjoy yourselves doing your favorite hobby?
Regards J.J. |
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