| Author | Message | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2002 |
Took your advice, gave the pan a wiggle and a jiggle and it came off. Plan to finish up next weekend. It's off to Road Atlanta with BMWCCA Friday. Thanks again. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks for the info guys. | ||
| Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member Username: Roger Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2002 |
Lawrence -Verell is dead on correct, mine came off by tilting the baffles toward the front of car and jiggling, etc. and it came right off. Glad you finally got the tube removed-mine was tight but not that tight. Roger B. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 108 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks Verell. I'll keep trying. And I thought my Porsche's oil pan was troublesome to remove. I am an engineer. I am not a sadistic person but this makes me wonder about my colleagues. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 179 Registered: 5-2001 |
GOOD NEWS: GETTING IT OUT IS ALL IN TILTING/WIGGLING FROM HERE ON BAD NEWS: SO IS PUTTING IT BACK IN AGAIN... Hang in there, There's nothing left to remove. However, the baffles & the plate on top of them want to hang up on several things on the way out. In particular it jams on the oil pickup, the side of the sump casting, & the transmission shift rod. I suspect you're at either the tranny rod, or sump casting point. I fought with mine for 5-10 minuites both when I removed it & again to get it to go back in. Twice I was positive there was something else I had to remove. In every case, backing it off of the hang & tilting/wiggling it while lowering it got it to clear the obstruction. So, Try pushing it up until it's free, then tilting one long side down & sliding it around until it clears something. You'll have to keep it tilted slightly most of the way out. You may have to tilt one corner down at some point. The tilt angle is touchy, too much or too little & it hangs on different things. Royal PITA. Sorry, I don't remember better, It suddenly came free both times & I wasn't positive what I was doing slightly differently. If I ever have to pull the sump cover again, I'm going to mark where it hangs up & trim about 1/8" off. The only exception is the oil pickup hole. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 107 Registered: 4-2002 |
I wound up cutting the dipstick tube last night. My theory about both nuts turning was correct. I put the lower nut in a large vice and used a cheater bar on a wrench to separate the nuts. They were extremely difficult to loosen. I could never have done this while the assembly was mounted on the engine. I removed what appears to be a temperature sensor on the front of the casing. Now the pan drops down about 3-4 inches but is binding on something towards the rear of the crankcase. Is there anything else that I need to remove to get the pan completely off? | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 105 Registered: 4-2002 |
I gave it one last try last night. This time I used a propane torch with heat shield so as to not burn wiring. No dice. Plan to cut it when I get the time. Correct water pump hose will be in this week. Just water pump installation and oil pan gasket remain. After that it'll be time for cheers or tears.... | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 99 Registered: 4-2002 |
Even with the blocks the thing won't budge. I have no other choice except to sever it near the nut. Brazed and painted, it'll be just fine. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2002 |
Been working on it some this morning. Can't get it loose but will try the blocks and vice grips on the blocks and hammer the vice grips to shove tube downward with nut backed off like you suggest. Meanwhile I have moved to easier things like putting distributors back on and spark plugs in. I'm quickly running out of easy things to do. The water pump installation is on hold until the correct water hose arrives. Then the oil pan gasket is the only thing remaining. If the blocks don't work, I am seriously considering cutting it off a couple of inches above the nut. I can always braze it back together. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 170 Registered: 5-2001 |
MAKE WOODEN TUBE CLAMP BLOCKS: If you have to grab it, try making a circular clamp out of a small block of wood about 1/2" wider than the tube. Drill a hole slightly smaller than the tube thru the block, split the block in half, & then use vice grips to clamp the block around the tube. This will avoid crushing the tube, but will clamp it firmly. TOP OF TUBE MUST BE BTW, you have to back the nut off some in order to free the tube. The end of the tube is jammed into the nut & there has to be some room to push it down towards the fitting to free it. That's why I unbolted the tube at the top. It will let tne nut rotate w/o unduly twisting the tube. Once you've turned the nut as much as the tube will let you, use the split block clamp to grab it w/vice grips. Then try tapping the side of the vice grips w/a hammer to move the end of the tube downward away from the top of the nut. Also twisting the tube as you propose, and of course heating it. The hot air gun may not get hot enough unless you've got a seriously industrial strength one. If it doesn't do the job, nest step is a propane torch. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 96 Registered: 4-2002 |
Verell, I'll give the heating a try. I have a heat gun. Will also reattach the dipstick to to cam cover and retry today. Being reattached to cam cover plus a light grab with vice grips might loosen it. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 165 Registered: 5-2001 |
Larry, I remember my dipstick tube turning with the nut for almost a full turn before it loosened enough for the nut to turn w/o the dipstick tube turning also. I had removed the bolt supporting the top end of the dipstick tube, so the tube was only supported by the nut. I was just starting to get really worried about bending the dipstick tube when it broke loose. BTW, The bottom of the dipstick tube is sort of a half-sphere that is press fitted into a flare on the other tube that extends into the crankcase. The water line to my toilet use a similar ball-flare seal. A couple of tips when re-assembling that will help ensure no oil leaks in from the dipstick tube fittings: - If you remove the 2nd fitting from the crankcase, use teflon tape or Loctite PST (Pipe thread sealant) on the threads when reinstalling it. - Slip a thin o-ring onto the tube that goes down into the crankshaft. Use one that will just fit into the matching fitting. It'll seal the tube-fitting joint nicely. - Smear PST on the ball end of the dipstick tube where it seals into the other tube. BTW, PST never sets up. It's intended as an alternative to teflon tape. It is also resistant to most solvents such as engine oil & gas. From your photo, it looks like someone may have coated the dipstick tube with something before tightening the nut down. In which case, you may have to heat the tube/nut to get things to break loose. Loosten the nut as much as you can before applying the heat. Be careful because you're pretty close to the battery cable & a couple of other wires. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2002 |
Roger, if I turn the bottom nut won't that further tighten the threaded part into th top nut. Looking down on bottom nut, I would turn it CCW to loosen it. But then if you look up at top nut from below bottom nut, bottom nut is then turning CW and tighening into top nut. Is my reasoning wrong? I have sprayed some liquid wrench (Wurth equivalent) on the dipstick. If the top nut would let go of the dipstick, I could get the nut out. I'll let it soak overnight then have a shot at it tomorrow morning. Thanks for suggestions. If you have any more, I'm all ears. | ||
| Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member Username: Roger Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2002 |
Lawrence, Yes it has to come out. Have you tried to loosen the bottom nut. It took a lot of strength to loosen mine, but it came. When that nut is loosened, the whole assembly will come out. Roger B. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2002 |
Just got through checking it out again. The top nut is the one that has loosened. But it is like the dipstick is frozen to the nut. I can turn the dipstick, and the top nut turns with it. The bottom nut stays put. So my theory was wrong. I'm a little leery about really grabbing it with vice grips because I could crush it. Have to think about this some more...... You're sure it has to come out to get pan off? | ||
| Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member Username: Roger Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2002 |
Lawrence-That could be the problem. Try to get a wrench on the bottom nut, then try to remove the top one. Yours is just like my 308. Hang in there. Roger B. P.S. When I did mine it took a lot of force even with the large wrenches to loosen them. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 93 Registered: 4-2002 |
Here is another picture. Wonder if I'm actually turning the bottom nut by turning the top nut. I assume the flared end of the dipstick is sandwiched between the nuts so I'm not loosening the dipstick because the bottom nut loosening instead?  | ||
| Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member Username: Roger Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2002 |
Lawrence-Looks like a slightly different configuration than my 308. I was just out in the garage and looked at mine. Its up on a lift and with the trouble light I can see it real well. If you get your head up as high as possible you can see the 2nd nut below the one you labeled green. Thats the one that doesn't have to be loosened. Remember, this is on a 308 and like I stated a 328 may be different. Also, my dip stick is a 2 piece one. I loosen the green nut and remove the bolt and nut from the support bracket on the top of the dipstick tube and it is loose. Then with my little finger I can fish out the 6'' end of the dipstick tube without loosening the nut on the base of the engine block. This is the flared piece. From your photo I can't see the second nut. Then again, a 3o8 may be different. I'm just trying to help. Good luck. Roger B. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 92 Registered: 4-2002 |
This is not working out. In the picture below when I turn the nut (green) the dipstick tube (red) wants to turn as well. Even with vice grips and moderate grip, I cannot stop dipstick tube from turning. Any suggestions?  | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 822 Registered: 1-2001 |
You guys are confusing the two "large nuts" -- the large nut holding the dipstick sheath onto the fitting on the block must be removed. The other "large nut" (the fitting itself) may or may not need to be removed. As Roger said, the (flared) lower dipstick tube can usually be wiggled up out of the fitting, but if not, removing the fitting will also remove the lower dipstick tube with it (the lower dipstick tube might be a little tweaked/kinked if there were prior unsuccessful attempts to remove the sump cover). Lawrence -- get a look at the appropriate/similar SPC, and it will all be much more clear (either on the FerrariOwners site or Steve J.'s site). | ||
| Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member Username: Roger Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2002 |
Lawrence--no you don't have to loosen the large nut, just stick your small finger in the dipstick hole and work the tube out, it's just flared and comes out easily. Cory is correct on the probe. Don't mess with the studs!!! He's also correct on the final sump removal-you have to jiggle it around a little for all the windage trays to clear. Roger B. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 89 Registered: 4-2002 |
Cory, Not sure I understand where the 24 mm bolt or nut is located. Is it inside the sump? I don't see anywhere where a 24 mm socket can fit to enter the sump. Is it inside the hole where the dipstick was? Does the big nut at base have to be loosened to get dipstick out. Nut is around dipstick. If I removed all 14 studs would that help? | ||
| cory mitchell (Mitch328)
New member Username: Mitch328 Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2001 |
You are rihgt so far as to removing the dipstick but once it is out there is another tube recessed about 6" into the sump that requires a 24mm socket and lots of flexability to loosen. Even with these and the sensor out the oil pan still has to be worked out from different angles to get by the oil pump pick up. The temperature probe is just beside the shift shaft. Unplug the wire and use a 19mm I believe. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2002 |
Roger, Where is temperature probe? Does the dipstick just pull out once you unbolt it from cam cover and loosen the large nut at base? Thanks. | ||
| Roger Blakeman (Roger)
New member Username: Roger Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2002 |
I just did this on my 308 and you have to remove the oil temp probe and the dip stick tube, then it will come off. I don't know if this applies to a 328. Roger B. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2002 |
I would like to change the oil pan gasket but I cannot get the pan off. I've loosened it so it drops down 1/2 inch but will drop down no more. Seems like something is holding it from within. What should I do to remove it? |