| Author | Message | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2001 |
The Ferrari service in Stockholm has reported the (probably) world record for "few miles on a 328 clutch". 380 km = 237 miles. Ciao Peter | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2001 |
I don't know how the previous owner of my 348 drove it before I got it, but he replaced the clutch with only 9000 miles on it right before I got it. That seems like a VERY short life, even for a Ferrari. What I was getting at with the clutch wear topic, is that if you downshift (H/T or otherwise) you will put more wear on the clutch. If you H/T properly it will wear less. One tip: with H/T downshifting if you are decelerating in a straight line, brake until you are almost to your turn then do your shift. That way you only do one shift and you do it at a lower RPM. =Less wear and still in gear for your turn. I have also wondered why cars which are not tracked seem to get a pretty short life out of a clutch. I think it is part of their design, I judt don't know what the trade-off is. The clutch has a superior feel to anything else I've ever driven. Maybe it is made for light weight? Thanks Magoo! | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 510 Registered: 12-2001 |
Is dumping the clutch, reving the car and the letting it engage or letting the clutch out most of the way very fast to where the car drops down to about 500 rpm and give it gas to get going? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2076 Registered: 2-2001 |
Boozy, After looking at your profile pic that is one fantastic looking machine. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2074 Registered: 2-2001 |
Boozy, These are only suggestions here because of early or premature failure of clutches in Ferraris that are street driven not track driven. If you so desire to drive your Ferrari as you said then so be it. We are just trying to determine why there is not much longevety for Ferrari clutches driven under street conditions. | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2001 |
Look, when buying a Ferrari you knew you were gonna spend a few $$ so enjoy your clutch. You will wear your clutch by H/T downshifting but it is fun. Do it if you feel like it and enjoy it. I suggest doing it when you need to like at the track or in more spirited driving and most of the time just put the clutch in and brake. See the thread on H/T downshifting in the General Chat section for a description of the proper method to H/T downshift (The one listed here is slightly off.) | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 474 Registered: 6-2001 |
But if you rev matched and dumped there would be even less wear because something has to slip for the plates to make them spin at the same speed. It u rev match the speed difference wont be as much. Just because the clutch is slipping less when you dump it doesnt mean its the best for it. Dumping a cluch while from a standstill will kill it after a while, but i think u are talking about downshifting. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1822 Registered: 2-2001 |
I look at it as like $300 all said and done with one of those ebay kits, and a weekend. Now I guess I can see why some may be interested in preserving clutch life. If you were to try and preserve it as long as possible than dumping the clutch and putting it into neutral (and then letting out the clutch again) would theoretically be the least amount of wear possible on the trans. | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2001 |
'Taint cheap! I have a receipt from the previous owner of my 348 where he paid $1491.69 for a new clutch. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1821 Registered: 2-2001 |
Damn. TR prices could send most into cardiac arrest, including me if I owned one. | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 59 Registered: 3-2001 |
While replacing the clutch in a 308/328 or TR may not be terribly difficult, TR clutch parts are frighteningly expensive compared to 308/328 options. While 308/328 clutch packages are available from $325 to $700, TR clutch packages start at $1,800 and can go as high as $3,000 - parts only! If you look at the ads of TR's for sale, the majority will have a new clutch - mine is almost gone after approximately 14,000 miles(8,000 miles are mine) - my 308 clutch had over 30,000 miles on it with significant life left, so in my case, clutch wear is not an insignificant issue. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1811 Registered: 2-2001 |
How come Ferrari owners are so concerned with wear? It seems contradictory to the purpose of the cars. I mean I can understand the difference between wear and unnecessary wear, but still. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2072 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yeah Ed, I'll bet that's what Jorma was trying to say. Now I understand. The man is a "wealth of knowledge." | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 867 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ok, now I get it, Sacrifice $5000.00 worth of transmission to save $200.00 worth of brakes. How could I have been so stupid. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2071 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jorma, I read it. We all agree that you are a "wealth of knowledge." | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 135 Registered: 3-2001 |
Exactly Peter, normal procedure for Ferrari drivers  | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 107 Registered: 4-2001 |
Toe-heel. Brake with your left part of your right foot. Clutch down. Rev up with a blip on the throttle with the right mid part of the your right foot still keeping the pressure on the brake pedal. Change gear. Engage clutch when the revs are coming down and passing what you think is the matching revs for your speed. Repeat. Ciao Peter | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 132 Registered: 3-2001 |
Magoo and Tim, read my first posting again. No you understand it, explane it to Ed too. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2069 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think REV. matching as Timn says, is definetly a plus to preventing disc wear but only if it is done correctly each time and the disc doesn't slip or drag on the flywheel. However I don't think that you should slide the shift in as you upshift,to make it smooth, because you are slipping the clutch causing friction and heat burning the lining.. A positive upshift engageing and disengageing should happen with a feel of a immediate take over without sliding it in. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
New member Username: Verell Post Number: 43 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sounds like 'rev matching' is what we old timers who drove cars with non-synchro 1st gears learned to call 'double clutching'. Am I correct? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 467 Registered: 6-2001 |
Letting the clutch out fast would cause unnecesary wear. Rev matching would certainly prevent much of the wear. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1788 Registered: 2-2001 |
I always slow down using the engine to a certain extent (learn on a jeep wrangler and you'll see why, brakes aren't exactly breath taking on it). Some people just put it in the next lower gear and let the clutch out fast, which revs the engine to like 4 grand. I don't do this at all. I let the clutch out as I'm slowing down, easing the engine up, next lower gear easing the engine up, etc. I always do this on the Ferrari too. I've never seen this wear down any clutch significantly of any car we've had between either me or my dad. When the clutch wears out I will replace it. It's not like something I'm dreading or really care about. I don't abuse it at all, but when it goes it goes. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2063 Registered: 2-2001 |
The majority of opinion here is the same as mine. Addtional shifting at anytime causes additional wear on the clutch since friction is the greatest wear factor here, especially high speed downshifting. These clutches don't seem to have a great longevity anyway. However some guys here on the F.C. have gotten pretty good mileage out of their clutches. I think it all comes from driving habits and how much that spinning clutch plate burns into the flywheel. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 131 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ed, they are looking for better designers in Maranello, they read your comments. | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 91 Registered: 8-2001 |
Downshifting will cause pre-mature wear on the disc, and hot spots on the pressure plate. Downsifting at higher speeds to slow down rapidly, puts extreme amount of pressure in the disc dampners and clutch finger springs. I have replaced a large amount of clutches in domestic and foreign cars and just 1 Ferrari so far (being mine). I replaced a clutch in a Honda Prelude last week that a teenager had, the car only had around 40,000 on a previous clutch (which by the way will easily go 100k or more). When I replaced the clutch the dampners were broken and the tension springs under the fingers were all laying in the bottom of the pressure plate...he too liked downshifting.....excessively | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 862 Registered: 2-2001 |
Having been inside many transmissions in my lifetime, including Ferrari, the Ferrari transmission is the worst design that could be put into a high performance car. The pairing of the first and reverse is all wrong for any performance shifting. Reverse should be paired with 5th as is done with almost every transmission in the world. First and 2nd should be on the same syncro and 3rd and 4th should be paired on the same syncro and 5th and reverse with a single blocking ring for 5th would be perfect. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 130 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ed, have ever seen a Ferrari gearbox opened, compare it to a normal car gearbox wich is good for 500.000 km. It is better you leave your Ferrari in garage. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 496 Registered: 12-2001 |
Great point Ed. That is what I think too. I never downshift at normal speeds. I just put it in neutral and use my brakes. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 860 Registered: 2-2001 |
Any motion the car makes causes wear. Downshifting does more wear on the transmission than the clutch. If you are looking for less wear on any component then when slowing down do not downshift, but let the engine compression slow you down in the last gear you have selected and depress the clutch just as you reach idle speed. Brakes are cheaper than clutches and clutches are cheaper than transmissions. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 129 Registered: 3-2001 |
Yes, Peter, they are, but using the clutch there is no risk and no wear.If you want to downshift, do it this way, sounds good and no wear.( You just burn extra gas. ) | ||
| Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member Username: Gts308qv Post Number: 183 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hey Jorma, I used to do that on an old Volkwagen I had, but have never tried it on my QV. Some gearbox's are easier than others. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 127 Registered: 3-2001 |
It is easy to downshift without clutch, with double accelating, and it sounds even better. But using even the clutch it is more secure. And this does not wear the clutch at all. Every Ferrari driver should be able to do that! | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Junior Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 221 Registered: 4-2001 |
here's an interesting discussion on 'slowing down w/ engine vs. brakes' on s2ki.com. its an interesting read, and there are several driving instructors posting to this one. http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7496 | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 341 Registered: 2-2001 |
I don't downshift when coming to a stop. I just take it out of gear and hit the brakes. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1630 Registered: 12-2000 |
Technique would determine the amount of wear. You're right, downshifting to stop at a light from normal speeds is unnecessary, sounds cool, but unnecessary. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2061 Registered: 2-2001 |
Now I know this statement will bring about comments like, "Why do you have a sports car or that's what they are made for." Think about it. Under normal driving conditions why should you downshift at every light. This just causes more engagement of the clutch and of course wear. Can we downshift too much which can cause pre-mature wear on the clutch under street conditions? |