| Author |
Message |
Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 130
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 10:44 pm: | |
Make sure when you replace the gear oil in the case...to use Mobil1, you won't be sorry. Also I found it easier to remove the fill on the side of the case, and fill the gear oil through the top of the clutch housing fill. Which will run down to the resevoir, level, overflow into the case and when topped off will come out the fill on the side of the case. This way you get exactly the amount needed. I think it was about 4qts. The Mobil1 will make a noticeable difference in smooth shifting. |
Don McCormick (Dandy_don)
New member
Username: Dandy_don
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 9:49 pm: | |
The seal I am discussing is a seal which keeps gear oil 85/90W (foul smelling stuff)inside the tansfer case reservoir. Take a look at the oil leak and determine whether it is gear oil or motor oil. If motor oil it could be the rear main oil seal which is located behind the flywheel and clutch assembly. It could also be many other things so check above the bell housing area to see if motor oil is dripping down from above. If gear oil then maybe this seal is your problem or more likely it could be the transfer case cover which has no gasket but relys on silicone sealant for sealing the joint. Anyway figure out what type of oil leak you have and then we go from there. Don |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member
Username: Richelson
Post Number: 567
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 6:31 am: | |
I have a small oil leak on the driver's side of the car would this be the main seal? Is this what you are replacing. |
Don McCormick (Dandy_don)
New member
Username: Dandy_don
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 9:51 pm: | |
Steve, I went out and looked at the bell housing again and for some reason I had no trouble removing the plate and tube assembly. The pivoting linkage bar pivoted right out of the way for me and I was able to remove the whole thing. Anyway, I have decided to replace the oil seal as I have the whole thing apart and it would seem silly to have it fail after putting it all back together. Too many things to remove and put back. Thanks for your input. Don Mc |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member
Username: Richelson
Post Number: 550
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 5:51 am: | |
Thanks for the info on the clutch. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 585
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 7:59 pm: | |
Don McC -- When I did the clutch on my ex-'78 I ordered that lip seal, but I found I couldn't get the two brass tapered pins out of the pivoting linkage bar without destroying them (in order to have the clearance to get the shaft assy and lip seal out). Since I hadn't ordered replacement tapered pins, I left well enough alone too -- but if I was going to do another 308 clutch I'd order both the lip seal and the tapered pins (mostly so that I could get it all apart and better lube the pivot bearings) -- sort of "do as I say and not as I do" eh? But overall I think your assessment is generally right -- 308s need clutch work fairly often (on a relative scale), but I've never heard of that particular lip seal being the problem that needs correcting. |
Don McCormick (Dandy_don)
New member
Username: Dandy_don
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 11:35 am: | |
While they may not be special tools, to replace the pilot bearing and the rear main seal, I needed a slide hammer with very small pulling jaws, I used only one of the three provided jaws. It took a lot of persuading to get out, I could not have done it without this slide hammer puller. Also the rear main seal took some time to pull and I finally got it by taking an old Sawzall blade (bimetal) and bending the end of it to create a thin, wide hook. I inserted the "hook" in between the seal and the crankshaft end and grabbed the other end of the blade/hook with vise grips pliers. I then attached the vise grips to the slide hammer. It came right out. The first time through any procedure you should expect to spend a lot more time just acccounting for the unknown factor. I am not sure that I will ever get to the 5-6 hour mark for a clutch job like Ric but I enjoy this stuff, it's therapy and I am saving myself a whole lot of money this way and I know that (eventually) it will be done right. All in all I would rate the 308 clutch job as moderate difficulty,-lots of stuff to remove to get access, but you don't have to remove either the engine or transmission or both as I have had to do on some cars.
Anyone have any ideas about this oil seal that I had asked about last night? Should I replace it? Don
|
Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
New member
Username: Ricrain
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 10:34 am: | |
"How difficult is the clutch job on a 308?"
Difficulty varies by year model and whether or not the car is dry-sump. Essentially the basic clutch job is the same from the very first 308's, all the way through the 328's, except that there's more or less "stuff" in the way that has to be removed (oil coolers, oil breathers, oil lines, etc).
I can do a clutch on a U.S. spec GTSi in about 5-6 hours assuming I have all the parts ready to go and there are no "suprise" repairs needed.
Note that the job does require one Special Service Tool (SST): The ring nut tool for the lower gear on the transmission input shaft.
Commonly, if the car has been driven infrequently, the rear main seal (around the rear of the crankshaft) will need to be replaced also (add 1/2 hour). |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member
Username: Richelson
Post Number: 546
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 10:25 am: | |
How difficult is the clutch job on a 308? |
Don McCormick (Dandy_don)
New member
Username: Dandy_don
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 11:01 pm: | |
Well, I pulled the flywheel and replaced both the pilot bearing (put some grease behind the pilot bearing as it seemed as if there had been some there long time ago) and the rear main seal. As I had the bellhousing off and it was very dirty inside and out I start cleaning it in the solvent washer. As I got into it I decided to clean out the clutch out put shaft and its associated bearing sets. Well, I found another seal that I had not expected and don't have a replacement for at this moment. It is the oil seal on the bell housing side of the clutch output shaft, hidden behind a plate and tube fitting through which the output shaft is fitted. The big question is: Should I replace this seal as there seems to only be the small amount of 90W gear oil in the transfer case that could possibly come through the seal? Has anyone done a clutch job lately and not replaced this seal? Or is it the other way around and am I the only nut who goes this far in replacing the clutch? Would be interested in your thoughts Don |
Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 125
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 7:28 pm: | |
Great...you are on the path home....good luck and enjoy working on it..... |
Don McCormick (Dandy_don)
New member
Username: Dandy_don
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 11:43 pm: | |
I got the roller bearing assembly out with a slight tap of a hammer handle through the opening in the back of the transfer reservoir. Thanks for the help Don |
Don McCormick (Dandy_don)
New member
Username: Dandy_don
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 9:26 pm: | |
Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. I will try and remove the bearing as suggested using a wooden hammer handle or something similar from the rear. I am concerned about destroying the bearing by pulling it and leaving the race in the bell housing. Failing that, I will attempt to reinstall the bell housing and set the ring as I am putting the bell housing back on. Clearly, it would be a lot better to do the former. I will let everyone know how it turns out this weekend. Thanks again. Don |
John Ames (Ameshouse)
New member
Username: Ameshouse
Post Number: 28
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 2:24 pm: | |
Sorry about that guys. I thought there was enough clearance for the ring to go through the bell housing hole. My bearing and ring came out fine when I removed the bell housing and I put them back in after it was attached. I glued the three new O rings to their locations before putting on the bell housing. |
BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 1837
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 1:05 pm: | |
Don you got the ticket from what I can tell. I just left this bearing in up to this point, will take it out when I go to put back together. It should come out like any of the other bearings in the transfer case, so tap it out with some patience. When going back together slip the bellhousing over the shaft, then put on the collar, then the bearing, then the snap ring. I vaguely remember an o-ring in there also. Try some liquid wrench or WD40 on the bearing to loosen it a bit. |
Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 108
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 1:01 pm: | |
John, unless I am mistaken the cutout ring goes on after the bellhousing is replaced...www.expensivecar.com. the ring has a groove in it to fit over the collar on the shaft. The bellhousing has a hole in it which is big enough for the shaft and collar to slide through but not the ring...this is why the bearing has to come out. The collar will fall into the fluid resevoir when the housing is removed because it pulls it off the shaft. I think this is what he is talking about...if you put this ring on before the bellhousing damage can occur....unless your design is different to mine....I thought all the 308 trans where pretty much the same.. |
John Ames (Ameshouse)
New member
Username: Ameshouse
Post Number: 27
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 9:43 am: | |
Don, I just replaced my clutch on my 1980 GTS last Friday. The ring you are talking about fits around the transmission shaft and is secured by a snap type ring on the shaft. I would think that you could put some grease on the inside the groove of the part that fell off and secure it well enough to keep it there when you replace the bell housing. Unless the bearing is bad you shouldn't have to remove it. |
Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 106
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 7:19 am: | |
When replacing my clutch, the bearing did not come out till I pulled the assembly. It was a little sticky but did come out without a puller. Yes there is a collar behind it (like a shim or something). It falls down in the case when the unit slides off the shaft. And the only way to retrieve it is by removing the bearing, since the other side is to small for removal. Make sure you put this back on when reinstalling...before the bearing..almost forgot mine.....You may want to try the end of the handle on a hammer and go behind and try to tap the bearing from the back side to see if it will slide out. |
Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
Junior Member
Username: Jbk
Post Number: 58
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 6:31 am: | |
Don, just thinking some more about your question, I believe the bearing on mine was a tapered roller bearing (I'll check tonite when I get home and look at the photo's). Is it possible someone substituted a ball bearing? If so, you'll have to pull it out with a puller since the race will have to come with it. |
Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
Junior Member
Username: Jbk
Post Number: 57
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 6:24 am: | |
On my 77 the bearing pulled out from the race easily by hand. I doubt yours is held in by anything more than a little corrosion. I'm surprised there's a loose ring in your case. The only ring I'm aware of is the one on the trans input shaft behind the bearing. This one is a b**** to remove. Is it possible someone was in there before and didn't put it in right? |
Don McCormick (Dandy_don)
New member
Username: Dandy_don
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 10:53 pm: | |
I need some help. I am replacing the clutch in my 1979 308GTS and have gotten the bell housing out and removed the clutch and pressure plate. I got a clutch change procedure from a website complete with pictures and followed it but was unable to remove the transmission input shaft bearing from the bell housing after removing the snap ring (this is the lower nut gear assembly in the transfer case). The procedure said that was fine as the bearing would come out with the bell housing which it did. The problem is that I haven't been able to remove this bearing by hand (it appears to be a roller bearing and the bearings are 1/4" in diameter or so) from the bell housing ( I am concerned about breaking the bearing with a puller-will it stand up to a puller?) or can I heat up the bell housing and then the bearing will fall out? I need to remove this bearing before reassembly as there is a small ring trapped inside the transfer case reservoir which I can not get out without removing this bearing. Anyway your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks for the suppliers of hoses in my previous post. Don |