| Author | Message | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 135 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have 4 brand new Bosch relays never used for 40.00 + shipping....I bought for mine.....anyone who wants them email me an I will put them on their way...I will tell you guys if the window switch contacts are in the least dirty it will not supply 12 volts to the motors. Check the voltage from the fuse block to the switch, then check the volts from the switch to the motors....if there is a drop between any of these, there is your problem. Check with load and no load. | ||
| Charles I Claussen (Atlantaman)
New member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2002 |
just a little info about the motors--- The grease that originally came in the units turns into a rock hard paste after a few years. I took mine out of the car, broke them apart,"chisseled" out the old epoxy like grease and relubed with white lithium. Now they work like brand new... | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1734 Registered: 12-2000 |
I can assure all of you my stock motors have balls. Jumping the wires directly with a 12V power-source and the window will go up and come down like greased lightning. This is even with crusty old window channels and sloppy cables. In my case, its the voltage drop between the switches and the motors causing my slowness (and it looks like I have to do that relay system now to get full juice to the motors...). | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 665 Registered: 12-2001 |
How difficult is it to install the relays? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 937 Registered: 2-2001 |
I did nothing wrong. I previously did the cleaning of the regulator and pulley system. You can take the window loose from the cables and lower and raise the glass with no binding. My problem is insufficient voltage going to the motors. I can apply voltage directly to the motors and they work properly. I am going to try to find the source of the voltage drop. I believe what is happening is that there are several reasons why different cars are having the same problem. Some are binding mechanisms, some are defective switches, some are bad motors, and some are low voltage. I would have thought that the right window would have been at least as good as the old motor that I replaced but it is actually slower. Live and learn. | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 134 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ed..if your speed is slow then you did something wrong or not complete..I did mine and they are quite quick..here is a few suggestions...1. Did you clean out the regulators?, they must be taken apart and the old grease cleaned and relubricated...2. Clean all the rollers...3. I suggest pulling switches apart and cleaning contacts....4. The window must be properly adjusted to the cable, this means that just because the window attaching bolts came off in one place they do not go back in the same place. The cable will stretch after time. The way to adjust is by putting the window up and down with door panel off. Observe how the window is acting on its way up. If it starts to drag at any point the window is out of adjustment (this is considerably noticeable on the gtb, because of the full window track) Slightly reposition the attaching bolts either up or down on the cable. Do one side at a time to get the correct position. This is a trial by error....4. make sure the adjustment roller is pulled taught with the cable, there can be no slack the cable must be very taught otherwise it will drag the window on the track...5. Check the top of the door panel wipe welt, with age it seems to come apart slightly. This tightens the gap between the door panel and the glass. I noticed on my passenger door the window to be fast with no door panel and slower with door panel on. With a little adjustment on the panel it seemed to help. You may even have to slightly pull away the upper door panel holding tabs to obtain clearance. I reassure you if you do these steps you will be quite impressed with your investment........ | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 935 Registered: 2-2001 |
That is definately the problem but it would be easier to add the relays than to rewire the car plus the contacts inside the window switches are too small for the amperage that needs to pass through. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1732 Registered: 12-2000 |
This is a long shot, so I'll need help from the electrical engineers here: Could it be that the wires going from the switches to the motors be too small of a gauge? I've checked mine, I get 12V TO THE SWITCH from the fuse box, but from the switch TO THE MOTOR it drops down to 10V. I'm thinking that the wire has too much resistance because of its small size. Would installing a run of heavy gauge wire solve the problem? I'm aware of the relay system that was posted here last year, but I'd hate to ADD more electrical junk to this car... | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 934 Registered: 2-2001 |
Again when looking at the bottom picture of the motor DO NOT use the washers as they are pictured but install the motor with nothing between the motor and regulator. Use the pictured washers on the outside of the motor then the flat washer and lock washer then the nuts. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 933 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well, I installed the new motors today and I hate to say it but it was very little help to the window speed. The drivers window is now faster but the passenger side is actually slower than it was. I would have to say that the new motors were a poor investment after all is said and done and probably the better investment in time and money would be to install the relay system. Anyway the motors can be installed fairly easily. First remove the door trim panel which is self explanatory. Remove the door speaker and disconnect the wires. The window motor mounts to the regulator with two nuts and can be removed from the left door without removing the regulator. You will need a good flashlight and a mirror to see inside the door where the motor is. After removing both nuts and lock and flat and rubber washers simply pull the motor away from the regulator. The motor splines into the regulator with a shock absorbing coupling with a D shaped hole. You will need to solder two connectors to the new motor. DO NOT use the rubber washers on the new motor as I have them pictured. The thickness of the washers will keep the shaft from coupling up. Install the motor directly to the regulator and then add the rubber washer, flat washer, lock washer and nut. After connecting the two wires check the operation of the motor to see if you need to reverse the connections to coincide with the switch direction. The passenger side is a little different in that after removing the motor nuts and washers from the regulator you will have to remove the three nuts and washers from the regulator and slightly pull the regulator away from the door and to the rear of the door to disengage the motor from the regulator. You can do this alone but would be easier with the help of a friend to hold up on the window glass to relieve the pressure on the cables. After extracting the motor put the regulator back in place with the studs until you are ready to install the motor, then reverse the process. This will keep you from having to thread the cables should they come loose.    | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Junior Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 239 Registered: 11-2001 |
Robert...great to hear from you again! Was beginning to wonder where you went -- thought you were still stranded in central Florida  -- sorry to hear you've had sickness in the family -- hope everything's OK now. Thanks for the offer to help me out with the motor install -- I could certainly use it. I'll give you a call soon. Have a great weekend. It's beautiful outside today, isn't it? You plan on taking the 308 for a spin? -Eric | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 133 Registered: 8-2001 |
Eric...sorry I have been out of the loop, had some family sickness...installed my passenger side motor and man is it smooth and fast...give me a call and I will help you get yours in............ | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 930 Registered: 2-2001 |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1815904710&r=0&t=0 The motors look just like the ones on this site. | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
New member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ed, I'd love to see a picture of the motor to see if it would work in my car as well. I've got a dead one on the passenger side and the warm weather is on the way! | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 929 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well, they finally came in today. I hope they enjoyed the trip[s]. They now have more miles on them than my car does. If it dosen't clash with the Easter Bunny, I will try to begin this weekend. | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Junior Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 231 Registered: 11-2001 |
Edward...what a mess - sorry to hear you're having such a hassle with the shipping. Glad to hear you found them though. Can't wait to see your "step-by-step" motor install. (my new motors are sitting on the shelf in "stand-by"). | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 924 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well, my motors finally showed up, back at Evans store. I hope they will be at my place again tomorrow and I can start the production. By the way, UPS is charging ME again to ship them. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 648 Registered: 12-2001 |
I am glad to read that they work better. I am planning on purchasing a set. I have heard good things about them. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Junior Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 141 Registered: 7-2001 |
The new motors definitely work smoother than the old but don't expect miracles. They will never be as fluid and fast as new style gear driven windows. Also be aware that they work better with your car running in order to get maximum voltage to them. I did a voltage test without the car running and I was getting 13 volts to the switch but only 10.5 out (to the motor) on the up cycle. I was getting about 11.2 on the down cycle. You could of course improve this with a relay but to me it was not worth the time for how many times I roll the windows up. I did try a fresh battery hooked up direct to the motors and the windows did go up faster. | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Junior Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 210 Registered: 11-2001 |
Thanks, Jerry, for the great tips & info. -- it will certainly help when I finally decide when to tackle this. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 638 Registered: 12-2001 |
Jerry how do the new motors work? | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Junior Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 139 Registered: 7-2001 |
BTW, the cable is 1.5 mm. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Junior Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 138 Registered: 7-2001 |
I replaced mine 2 wks. ago. You want to make sure that you mark the cables at where they attach to the 2 window clamps (I used a black marker). Also, if you want to remove your windows like I did, all you need to do is loosen the screw at the bottom of the rear track and slide the track toward the rear of the car. Be sure you notice approximately where it was as there is some adjustment to it. As far as grease, just use some good all purpose type. Don't use anything that is real thick. It doesn't matter how you retain the end of the cable as long as it doesn't interfere with the motor/cable movement. I went to a Yamaha motorcycle shop and he had a compartmentalized plastic container with many sizes of these solder type ends. Two of them cost $1.50 with him putting one of them on for me. If you need me to get you some, let me know. Good luck, Jerry. | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Junior Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 208 Registered: 11-2001 |
Edward...I hope UPS can track them down soon for you. My motors arrived first of last week, but haven't had a chance to start working on changing them out yet. The procedure looks rather straightforward. Have a couple of questions at the outset, for example: do the wires HAVE to be soldered, or may crimp connectors be used -- and what type of lubricants should be used on cables, pulleys, felt strips at windows, and type of grease for repacking gears. The pics weren't too clear about the procedure for wire-tying the cables while changing out the motors. We're looking forward to your step-by-step on the window motor changeout! May have to give my Ferrari buddy Robert (H2Oquick) a call too . | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 900 Registered: 2-2001 |
I had hoped to have some pictures and proceedures uploaded by now as promised but since UPS has lost the new motors I have nothing to work with at this time. As soon as they figure out what is going on I will update everyone. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 891 Registered: 2-2001 |
When I stated that EVERYTHING had been done to rectify the slow window situation it included all known problem areas and some unknown. Thanks for the input. | ||
| 78308gts4re (Rivee)
New member Username: Rivee Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ed, what are you going to do with the old motors? Reason I asked is that I too had very slow (almost stopping) windows. But after taking the motors apart and cleaning all the rock hard old grease out of them and re-greasing them they worked 150% better. just a thought........... | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1884 Registered: 2-2001 |
Edward sounds good to me, I'll be ordering the same ones in the very near future. | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 119 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ed...make sure the window switches are clean too...After replacing the motor on the drivers side it was still not as fast as I would like it....but after cleaning the switches....wow!!! was I impressed. Remember for the motor to recieve its voltage it must first go through the switch....a dirty contact can cause problems... | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 886 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have previously taken EVERYTHING apart and cleaned and relubed and checked voltages to no avail, so the motors are the only thing left. The price of the motors is an absolute bargain compared to other cars. A Nissan motor for one door is over $200.00 | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Junior Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 186 Registered: 11-2001 |
Robert -- that's great! Thanks in advance. I was wondering when you'd be getting around to the passenger door -- I might be giving you a call when doing mine. Can't wait to have my windows flying up and down like yours do. | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 117 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have my drivers side done w/ The new motors and it is quite fast. You still have to clean out the spool and regrease. Plus clean all the rollers. Also I found cleaning the window switches helps. I have had a couple people emailing me on some tech. So yesterday I pulled down my passenger side and wrote down the steps on the layout. I have also taken some pics and was going to try to get everything on a thread by Friday or Saturday at the latest. My car is a 308 gtbi, so I hope it can help other 308 and possibly some other model owners as well. Ed mine is going to be a quick draft, so you can do all the reviews and step by step..As far as consumer report,I give it 2 thumbs up. | ||
| Jeffrey Ballmer (Jballmer)
New member Username: Jballmer Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ed, Sounds great. I'll be waiting for your pictures. Do you know if the same motors fit an 85 TR? | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Junior Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 184 Registered: 11-2001 |
Same here, Ed -- would be much appreciative of you providing this info. for us! I, too, will be ordering a set of window motors from Evans tomorrow, and could use all the help I can get . | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 134 Registered: 3-2001 |
Sure Ed, please give a consumer review. That would be great. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 883 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have ordered a pair of the more powerful window motors from Evans and will do some installation pictures and text if ya'll would like me to. I am going on vacation 3-8 thru 3-17 and hope they will be delivered by the time I come back. I can do a step by step and give a consumer reports review. My car is a perfect candidate as both sides are as slow as they can be. |