| Author |
Message |
DArwin Ottolini (Medarwin)
New member
Username: Medarwin
Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 6:09 pm: | |
Well, I was in fact UFI'd. Did it myself of course. I had run the car for about an hour, stopped for an hour and then pulled my stunt. THe gasket blew out about 1/2 inch, just enough to spray a jet of oil everywhere, about 8 quarts in 15-20 seconds. I should have checked the oil temp in hindsight. Fortunately, I threw a new filter on and when I fired it had good oil pressure right away, so probably no damage. Smarter next time maybe. Bright side is that I think the rusted check valves from the head may be causing my false air problem. A little good comes out of the bad maybe.
Any hints on cleaning the mess out of the engine bay? I'm thinking of using dilute Castrol purple stuff and an immed rinse.
Thanks to all that posted.
Darwin |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 95
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 10:09 pm: | |
Dave: I forgot about the scavenger pump. I believe the primary pressure to be about 60-75 psi. Do you know the scavenger pressure?....just curious.
The reason is, that I see two steel braided lines, and am wondering if they are really necessary, as opposed to regular high pressure hoses, which would cost much less. |
vince porto (Vince)
New member
Username: Vince
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 4:20 pm: | |
sounds like you've been UFI'd! Check the oil filter seal.
A "couple of miles" likely didn't get your oil sufficiently thin and hot. Keep the revs down until the oil temp is up.
Rgds,
Vince |
Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Junior Member
Username: Dapper
Post Number: 125
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 3:41 am: | |
With Dry sump and therefore scav pump, even the return side lines are at reasonable pressure, not just the delivery 'pressure' side. Check all lines. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 92
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 6:40 pm: | |
Darwin: Unless the cam shaft cover is GONE, I would agree that a leak here would not cause a major blowout, as you describe.
There is a Blow-By system with 4 hoses and tubes, but this also, should not cause this type of failure.
From what I can deduce, the leak had to come from a blown oil hose, or cracked casting, connected to the high pressure side of the system.
The hoses going to the radiator, and oil reservoir are on the low pressure side. This leaves only the oil hose connections to the oil filter. From the drawing, etc. the oil pump pushes oil through the oil filter, then into the right hand engine head, entering at the top front camshaft area. The oil pump is also on the right side of the engine. Check the following: casting of the cover and body of the oil pump; casting of the oil filter support; and the hose from the oil filter to the right cam cover inlet.
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DArwin Ottolini (Medarwin)
New member
Username: Medarwin
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 15, 2002 - 1:01 pm: | |
The dealer (ALGAR) told me that line was an oil return and the part was a union. I see now that you are correct. I have dried off as best I can the hoses and undercarriage. Sadly, I cannot find an oil hose failure. THe leakage seems to be coming from the right front corner of the engine area. There was considerable oil on top of the head. Oil Rad seems OK, I don't have any way to pressurize the oil system to really check.
I am afraid that it might be the camshaft seal but the oil blowout was so fast and so large I have trouble understanding how a seal could fail so comprehensively.
I suppose I will fill it with oil without starting and see if there are any gravity leaks. I am a couple of hundred mile away from any decent shop (North Central PA) |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 82
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 9:56 pm: | |
Darwin: Are you sure that this is where the oil came from? Just a wild guess, but this tube could have been disconnected for a while, and the oil came from a different source. From what I see in the parts manual, this should NOT be a source of an oil leak. Be careful and look for ANOTHER leak!!!!!!! |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 81
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 9:45 pm: | |
Darwin: I think that I have found it. I assume that yours is USA version. The bell shaped object is a check valve, part no. 121769. It is part of the air injection system, which puts air, from the pump in the exhaust, to help burn the unburned fuel. It is a check valve to prevent exhaust pressure from backing up into the air pump. I believe it only works to 4500 rpm, and then shuts off.
It appears that, only the side that attaches to the aluminum tube is threaded.....the other side, with the hose, has a hose clamp.
Could I be wrong? Where did the oil come from? Or was this oil vapor? If it is oil vapor then you shouldn't be that low on oil!!!!
I hope this helps. |
DArwin Ottolini (Medarwin)
New member
Username: Medarwin
Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 8:54 pm: | |
Henry,
Look on the right hand cyl bank. below the head there is a small extruded alum line coming from the underside of the block. It goes into a bell shaped section about 1-1/2" long, threaded both ends. From there it goes into a braided hose (not aeroquip,clamped). It runs parallel to the head under the plugs. The bell separated from the line completely, all 360 degrees. If it had not been a total failure (slow leaker squirting down) i might have lost the engine (you can only watch your oil pressure so much while driving. I got lucky seeing the oil splatter as it was squirting all over.
Darwin |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 79
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 8:31 pm: | |
Darwin: My 88TR happens to be on my lift, for another fix, so I decided to look as to what you are refering to. There are two steel braided, rather large in diameter, hoses coming from the front lower section of the engine.
One hose comes out of the oil sump and goes to the left, to connect to a semi round part on the bottom of the detached oil reservour. This is where one drains most of the oil, during an oil change.
The other hose, slightly above the first hose, comes off the engine and goes to the right, to connect to the oil cooler in the right hand radiator.
What specifically are you referring to? |
DArwin Ottolini (Medarwin)
New member
Username: Medarwin
Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 5:38 pm: | |
Yes, I checked the idiot light first thing to make sure it was working. From the split second glance I took, I had maybe 10-15# of pressure at shutdown. There is a shop here in PA that has made P car hoses for me. Problem is, what the hell is that little bell shaped sucker for? Why didn;t the factory just run a straight shot from the block to the final fitting? I can't find mention of it in the factory shop manual. Anyone know its purpose?
Thanks,
Darwin |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
New member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 32
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 1:45 pm: | |
Darwin - When you first turn your ignition key to the on position, does the idiot light come on? If so, then it is unlikely that you did any damage to the engine. The first symptom for unlubricated pistons and bearings is often the last symptom for that engine. You would know it. Furthermore, there is no advantage to tearing down a working engine. I would check the oil plug for particulates (I believe it has a magnet on it), but would not lose a great deal of sleep over this.
I just had two specialized Dino (the real Dino - 246) hoses made up at a "hose" shop here in Southern California. Cost much less than original hoses, better quality, and faster (I chose to go with metal braided aircraft type). I suspect you can find a similar shop in your community, and if not, I can forward the telephone number and address of this shop. You did not mention, nor does your profile list, your location.
Jim Selevan |
DArwin Ottolini (Medarwin)
New member
Username: Medarwin
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 11:59 am: | |
Well, as I was congratulating myself on locating a new fuel cap, I had a little booboo. Winding out in second, I saw smoke from the rear. At first I thought I ate an AC or Alt belt but oil started splashing on the rear screen. I managed to shut it down at nearly no oil pressure showing but the idiot light had not yet come on. The failure was the bell shaped fitting on what I beleive is the oil return line on the bottom of the block. I had corroded and completely separated at the threads from the solid alum end. Seems like a cheesy part where aluminum or non corroding alloy could have been used. I suppose I am quite lucky that the oil on the exhaust didn't light off, although I was at operating temps, I had only traveled a couple of miles.
Questions:
A) does anyone know of an upgrade or substitute part I can install to prevent this in the future, and
B) what are the chances that I avoided internal engine damage?
C) has anyone else experienced this failure? It seems that this fitting has no specific purpose and is the weak link in a system of extruded alum tubing and aeroquip lines.
D) is there a lister that has these parts? Would prefer to buy them here.
Fingers Crossed,
Darwin
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