| Author |
Message |
Glen Mckenna (Johndillinger)
New member
Username: Johndillinger
Post Number: 45
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 19, 2003 - 6:37 pm: | |
Michael,
(If your still out there) you had to replace the fusebox for the second time to fix the power problem? im experiencing the same power lose with my 90TR, feels like its running on 6 instead of 12. Did your panel problem kill one of your fuel pumps?
any help would be appreciated
Glen |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1122
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 2:53 pm: | |
good to hear you worked it out - enjoy |
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 599
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 2:42 pm: | |
Ok, my baby is back. One day in shop is all it took. The long and short of it, the back of the fusebox looked like someone shot it with a shotgun. Little burnt holes everywhere caused by the arcing from the bad clips. We also ran new wire and replaced the bad clips. New fusebox (second one in 10 months) and she fired right up smooth as ever. Drove it 20 plus miles and normal. Thanks for your help guys.
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Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 592
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 3:31 pm: | |
Thanks Steve. You are correct in your assumption. Sorry for the typo, I meant white not right. Appreciate the info -- explains why the RH fans are not coming on. I saw yesterday that the temp did not go down as quickly when the fans came on, I saw this on the water temp gauge and sure enough the right side were dead when I looked at the engine.
Michael |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 868
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 3:08 pm: | |
Michael -- I'm going to assume that you mean the lowest white connector on the RH (US passenger) side -- if that's not correct let me know.
Going from the middle of the fuse/relay board to the outside (per 509/88):
pin 1
(small) violet/black wire
ground signal from (closed) thermoswitch on water radiator to turn on relay L and relay H (which turn on the water fans)
pin 2
(large) light blue wire
RH water fan
pin 3
(small) red/green wire
ground signal from thermo-time switch (when closed) to activate relay U (which fires the cold start injectors if the starter is cranking)
pin 4
(small) brown/white wire
ground signal from (closed) thermoswitch on oil radiator to turn on relay I (which turns on the oil cooler fan)
pin 5
(large) light blue/black wire
LH water fan
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Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 591
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 2:32 pm: | |
Steve,
Its the lower right connector.
Michael |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 867
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 2:21 pm: | |
Michael -- There are two white connectors on the passenger side at the bottom of the fuse/relay panel -- for your question #2 (about which wire/pin does what) are you talking about the upper white connector or the lower white connector? |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 380
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 1:44 pm: | |
Michael, I am glad I could help. Isn't this site great? I am sorry I din't get to your emails sooner, I was having too much fun with my TR over the weekend. That bottom passenger side connector has several pins that went bad on mine too. Most noticeably, the cooling fans pins, and the AC pin (as Adam mentioned already).
I am still having some intermittent problems with the three connectors that run vertically on the passenger side. They mostly control, or power, illumination components such as the headlights, sidelights, daylights, interior lights. The horn is also powered through those. I am yet to figure out a solution, but I am working on it. |
Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Member
Username: Icnsltmfg
Post Number: 374
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 7:37 pm: | |
Michael...see the thread about TR elect problems...The second one is for the A/C and it is one of the worst for frying. |
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 589
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 4:47 pm: | |
Thanks Ben, but Caribe gets the prize today. And it is the alternator cooling hose. I said atached to the radiator, but I now see its attached to a inlet tube next to the radiator. I placed it back where I found it.
I checked the white clips and here is what I found.
1. I first checked the strip that Caribe said and sure enough Number 4 and 5 clips had large visible gaps. The other clips were close and barely any gap. I used tweezers to close them. Not to sure if this solves my problem (see number 2) but at least the fit is better.
2. Decided since I was there to check the others. Yikes!! I need help on this one. On the passenger side bottom white strip. Counting from the inside to the outside as it sits in the tray (right to left). Number 1 is slightly yellow, Number 2 is fried (burnt), 3 is Ok, Number 4 is scarred very visibly and 5 seems Ok. What do these pins supply power to? My manual does not show or say. Anyone with a diagram?
Just had my 30K done in March and the car has been running great for 3000 miles. I had a fusebox meltdown last year (same time incidentially). Put in a new fusebox, strips, clips and everything worked well.
The fusebox housing is not damaged, seem to have caught it early enough.
Suggestions.
PS: Thanks a bundle Caribe, I never thought of looking at those strips and it was your suggestion that made me look. Intersting to note the burnt clip had the same wide gap as the fuel pump ones that I fixed.
The moral here: Every three months, inspect and fix any gaps in those clips. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 695
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 3:57 pm: | |
When mine did somenthing like this is was a relay that went intermittently bad (one fuel pump), swapping the (fuel pump) relays made it jump to the other side. ~$5 for 2 new relays (heck I replaced them both) and I was good to go. Just to add antoher thought to the mix here.
-Ben
PS. the "orange" alternator cooling hose does just kind of sit there in an odd way, and it's the only thing that would be described in that fashion.
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Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 379
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 3:56 pm: | |
Oops, I meant to say fuel pump. Anyway, the connector's pins for the fuel pumps are the 4 and 5 pin when counting from driver side ti passenger side (right to left when looking from the fron of car, sorry WSM counts that way). |
Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member
Username: Psp1
Post Number: 95
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 3:27 pm: | |
FWIW, when mine experienced intermittent coil problems, there wasn't a strong fuel smell.... |
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 588
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 3:19 pm: | |
You guys are great. Thanks.
Caribe, I will check the fusebox.
Adam and Patrick, no strong smell of gas. Idles smoothly and well, but will check the coils.
Bruno, thanks for confirming the symptoms. Will fully investigate fuel pump.
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Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 272
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 2:59 pm: | |
my fuel pump went today in my 308. Same symptoms. It started to seize slowly. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 378
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 2:25 pm: | |
Michael, I had a similar thing happen to me on my TR. The problem, the Fuse box connector for the water pump relay on the right bank was burned. The pump was intermitently making contact hence at low rpms it was not that rough, but whenever I wanted to go fast the car had a hard time delivering any power. The Fuel pumps are connected to the driver side bottom connector on the fuse panel. Pull the connector, and if the pin(s) is burned out, then bypasss connector for the burned contacts only. Apparently, a common problem on TRs. |
Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Member
Username: Icnsltmfg
Post Number: 372
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 2:14 pm: | |
Michael;
You should check the coils, but if a coil was bad, you would still be dumping fuel into the motor and then get a strong smell of fuel and back firing. It could be a clogged fuel filter. I like the rest of us hate that these cars are just before computer diognosis and after complete mechanical. Very difficult to trouble shoot.
Yesterday I even had the car would not start after just running it, no click of the selinoid or anything, yet plenty of juice to all of the key on items. After a min and four tries it fired up. No clue. |
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 587
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:46 pm: | |
I am pretty sure its the left bank that going because, that was the bank that showed a slight miss a couple days ago until it warmed up. Never did that before either. So I am not surprised too much that something came up like this. Next time I drive it I am going to get to the symptoms and when I return home feel which side of the engine is cold.
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Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member
Username: Psp1
Post Number: 94
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:38 pm: | |
I think I would take a look at the right (passenger side) coil - if that coil is cutting out, the car will run but only half power.
If you swap the coils from side to side to see if the problem follows, stay close to home and take the tools with you to switch back - the circuitry to power the fuel pumps goes through the board on the left coil (yes, I found out the hard way). |
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 586
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:35 pm: | |
James,
Interesting what you said. The reason is acceleration was affected also. But I could get acceleration if I slowed down for a couple minutes then hit the accelerator. The car would perform until about 5,000 rpms and then struggle. If I immediately slowed down and tried again, nothing. But if I wait a couple minutes and then tried I get some life out of it, until hitting higher rpms again. So I will check the fuel pumps. At idle however, nice and smooth as before, but then again fuel demand is low, so if the fuel pump pressure is low it might not be noticed.
I did think of bad fuel, so I fueled at a different gas station just to check that. So I ruled that out.
Thanks for your ideas.
Michael |
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 585
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:21 pm: | |
I should add that the car usually starts right up on the first 2 or 3 turns of the starter from a cold start. For the last 3 or 4 cold starts however, it did not start on the first try. Had to stop and then turn the starter again before it kicked in. Then it ran rougher than normal until it smoothed out after 2 minutes. Could it be a fuel pump giving up the ghost and when very warm gets too weak to give enough fuel to increase power?
James, just read your post so I am editing this one. I added the above because I did also think of fuel starvation and you got seem to think so also. I will think about what you said.
Thanks.
Michael |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
New member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:18 pm: | |
Michael - you did a great job describing the symptoms. However, there are so many possibilities. Could be electronic (ignition). However, ignition failure is either all or none (in most cases). Must entertain fuel starvation (does sound a great deal like fuel starvation). Air leak would be there hot or cold. Bad fuel would be there hot or cold. I would first chase fuel starvation. To check this, drive the car until symptoms appear. Then drop down to no-load 4th gear 40 mph (level - not to lug the engine). Allow fuel pumps to build pressure for a few moments. Then again drop gear and try to get above 5000 rpm. If the pumps are heading south, they may not be able to meet demand of high rpm and load, but may be able to for low load and rpm.
However, there are sooooo many possibilities.
Good luck.
Jim Selevan |
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 584
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 10:21 am: | |
Guys,
I just came back from my typical Sunday drive and something happened. This happened after the car was on for 20 minutes and I had already done a couple runs up to 90 in 3rd gear -- all was normal until.. I was cruising along in 4th at 80, saw some open road and hit the accelerator. Nothing happened. The car jerked a bit and would not go past 5,000 rpms when floored. Interesting because I was wondering a couple minutes before why my temp in 4th on a 82 degree day was so low (reading 175 instead of the normal 200 or so.) I drove to my destination, but cruised at 70 in 4th. 3rd was no better, 5,000 rpms max when floored. Same in 2nd.
Went to a gas station to put in some gas (as the gas was low). Waited 10 minutes, started up and let it warm up to 180 (oil). Raised the revs in neutral to 5,000 -- sounds fine. Went for short drive in second. Revved all the way to 6800 as normal (quick and powerful) and 78 came right at redline as normal.
Went to lunch like I was planning and stayed an hour. When I left, I warmed up the car for 5 minutes. Temp to 175, revved to 5,000, smooth. On the way to the highway had several empty country roads and 2nd went to 6800 and 78 mph as advertised. On the highway, was in fourth for about 5 minutes and accelerating smoothly from 70 to 90 with power coming in nicely. I then shifted from 4th to 3rd to bring up the power and when I hit the Accelerator -- nothing. The car was on again for 15 minutes and the temp was 200 as it should be. I drove home at 75 in 4th and watched my oil temp drop to 175, which is really my 5th gear number at this speed and rpms.
I have all but ruled out a slipping clutch as there is no revving of the engine or anything in 4th, just no power after it warms up and a kind of jerky feeling as if it is trying but cannot do it.
I also in second slowed down to 40 mph and with the window open pressed the Accelerator. heard a hissing sound like its sucking air (leaking air?) and a slight high pitched whine. I was able to repeat the sucking sound and whine in 3rd as well.
My conclusion, I am losing a bank of cylinders after the car is running for 15 minutes or more and the temp gets to 200. After that there is no getting it back unless the car is shut off and cooled. Is this reasoning correct?
Came home and open the engine bay went looking for loose hoses, clips etc. There was a orange hose that is clamped on one end, but open on the other end. The open end was sitting right next to the alternator. It is from the left side of the car and at one end it is clamped to the radiator. it looks like a hose for alternator cooling, but I never noticed it had an open end before. Is it for alternator cooling or do I have a disconnected air line to the left cylinder bank?
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Michael
PS: I have Tubi pipes so its not the cats.
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