| Author |
Message |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 224
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 9:54 am: | |
The water pump/alternator belt are Gates Industrial belts. Try an industrial supplier instead of Auto parts stores. They're in the Gates Industrial Belt Products catalog. Look under:
Polyflex Belts
Product No. Series 8903
7M
BTW, catalog list on the 7M1000 belt is $23.25, 7M975 is $23.22.
I picked up the Gates Ind. catalog at my local bearing/seal supplier when I ordered my timing drive bearings.
I'm pretty sure T.Rutlands shipped me a 7M1000 (gotta get my receipts organized). My original belt was a very tight fit with the alternator tensioner bolt up against the end of the slot. I could barely get the original belt on. The 7M1000 puts the alternator tensioner bolt about centered in the slot. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 289
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 9:41 pm: | |
Frank, I did purchase two belts from GT Car Parts. The number marked on the belts is 7M975. None of the auto parts stores showed this as a valid Gates number. I didn't try 7M1000. I wrapped a tape around the outside of the 7M975 belt and it measured about 38.5 inches. This is pretty close to 975 mm. I suspect the 7M1000 might be an inch longer and would probably also work. |
Frank Foster (Sparta49)
New member
Username: Sparta49
Post Number: 40
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 5:52 pm: | |
Bill, I think its a Gates 7M1000. I know GT CAr Parts in Phoenix has them 623-780-2200 |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 288
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 5:30 pm: | |
Verell,
I went to every auto parts store in the area a couple of weeks ago trying to buy the proper Gates belt. Nobody had a listing for this Gates belt even with the number printed on the back side of the belt. Do you know of source for this industrial belt? |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 218
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 4:00 pm: | |
It's a rule of thumb, but I just tighten an alternator/pump belt just past the point where it stops slipping when recharging the battery after starting the engine. I mark the tensioner position & advance it tighter in about 1/8 increments until things start to quieten down, then smaller increments. Usually have to go one more increment after the car sits overnite & the battery has a chance to drain down.
This probably ends up setting the tension a bit on the low side, but I've never had a problem doing it. The belt is quite noisey when it slips, so you know if it's too loose.
BTW, these GATES industrial belts that Ferrari uses don't seem to stretch, so I don't try to pre-compensate for belt stretch over time. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 286
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 9:37 pm: | |
You could tie a piece of string to the center of the belt, lead it through a turning pulley, and fix a 6 lb weight onto it. After having just replaced a belt on my car, I elected to tension a new belt a little more that probably necessary, thinking that the belt will stretch a little after a few miles. After 200 miles, everything is still ok. |
Anthony Tipton (Tonyt)
New member
Username: Tonyt
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 9:05 pm: | |
Well since I have an extra belt I've decided to take Ed's advice and see how things work by simply replacing the belt. But I want to be sure that the belt is correctly tensioned this time so if there are problems I know it's the pump.
The owners manual leaves much to be desired in guidance for tensioning;something seems to have gotten lost in the translation. Paraphrasing it states "..the deflection of the new belt in the middle of the pulleys does not exceed .19 inches with a load of 5.95-6.8 lbs".
As an engineer I completely understand what this means and why it is stated this way. As a person who has to work to the requirement in my garage I havent got a clue how to tension the belt correctly to this requirement.
Anybody have a simple method for checking correct tension on the belt. Generally I would just check with my calibrated finger but don't want to try that again.
Thanks,
Tony |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 215
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 2:47 pm: | |
RE: MELTED BELT & BROWN GOO ON CRANK PULLEY
Your initial scenario matched my water pump bearing failure exactly.
EXCESSIVE BELT TENSION MORE LIKELY CULPRIT
I guess it's possible that belt overheating cooked the grease out of the pump bearing. However, I suspect that the belt was too tight & caused the bearings to overheat. In the process one of them locked up briefly, destroying the belt.
BOTTOM LINE: REBUILD THE PUMP W/NEW BEARINGS
If you've heated the bearings up enough to cook the grease out of them, then they're well on the way to being trash if not already there. For one thing, they're no longer properly packed w/grease. The bearings have seals on both sides, so there's no way to get grease back into them.
Pull the pump, If the seal is OK, then just put in new bearings (s/b cheap from a local bearing supply place). Just take the old bearings in & they'll be able to use the numbers on them, or just the dimensions to get you replacements. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 278
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 7:29 pm: | |
I had a water pump fail on my audi 2 days after I installed it. New not rebuilt. And I have done the job many times before. Bad pump is possible. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1596
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 7:11 pm: | |
No, just put on a new belt and then re-tension the thing after a few days running and then see what happens. Any time you hear a squeeling belt, you are generating a tremendous amount of heat and it needs to be attended to before it overheats the belt. |
Anthony Tipton (Tonyt)
New member
Username: Tonyt
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 7:05 pm: | |
Thanks for input. Have had some time to check some things based on advise given.
The water pump alternator pulleys turn fine although their is slight resistance on the water pump because coolant is still being pumped as I turn by hand. The alignment of the pulleys checks out OK. There is some free play on the pump shaft probably less than a couples of mils but this is only by feel. This free play could have existed prior to belt failure. There is a slight squeal when I turn the water pump kind of like a rubber seal would make against another rubber seal; best I can explain it.
The belt might have been a little loose but not by much. The belt would squeal once and awhile generally when idling at a stop light and then stop after a couple of minutes as I took off. I assumed that it was just because it was a new belt and needed some time to break in. Well it broke in allright and I had made a bad assumption.
So my senario is that the looseness of the belt allowed it to occasionally slip generating enough frictional heat to eventually begin to melt the belt. The phenomenon then continued feeding upon itself until ultimate belt failure. The increase in coolant temperature in the water pump allowed heat to soak into the bearing area resulting in the grease breaking down/melting and now to flow through the weep hole onto the crank pulley.
Does this sound reasonable? Is there anyway to add grease back into the water pump like through the upper weep hole? Anyone know an easy way to get melted well adhered rubber off a metal pulley?
Thanks
Tony
|
Frank Foster (Sparta49)
New member
Username: Sparta49
Post Number: 37
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 3:48 pm: | |
Anthony, I went through at least 10 belts this same way, I solved the problem by putting washers between the block and the alt. bracket. my alt was a hair out of alignment. Put a flat edge from the crank shaft to the alt. pulley to see if this is your problem. You may also want to change the rubber bushings on the alt. bracket as they tend to dry out and become brittle. If this is not the case the belt may simply have become loose |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member
Username: Craigfl
Post Number: 402
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 1:58 pm: | |
Edward is right but I suspect the bearings in the water pump overheated and the grease from the bearings blew out the weep hole. They probably siezed and then the belt was slipping on the pulley and very quickly burned. Possibly the belt was too tight?? |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1594
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 1:09 pm: | |
You need to feel of the water pump pulley as well as the alternator and see if either is binding when turned. It should not have failed so quickly. |
Anthony Tipton (Tonyt)
New member
Username: Tonyt
Post Number: 18
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:30 pm: | |
On the way home from a short drive this afternoon I noticed that my alternator light was on and the water temperature gauge was pegged. Pulled over and shut the car down immediately. When I got her home noticed that the water pump belt was gone although significant amount of melted belt remained on the water pump pulley. Also noticed that there was deposits of thick brown substance, smelled like cosmeline(sp?) on the crank pulley just under the outboard weep hole on the water pump.
The water pump had just been rebuilt and both it and the belt had less than 200 miles on them.
Can anyone enlighten me on why the pump belt would have been getting so hot as to melt prior to failure? Secondly, does the gunk that I believe is coming from the outboard water pump weep hole indicate that I have ruined the pump bearings and need to have it rebuilt?
Thanks in advance for comments.
Tony |