| Author | Message | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 249 Registered: 5-2001 |
Remember, I started this thread with the statement: YOU'RE PROBABLY ALREADY DISTILLING IT & THROWING IT AWAY My home distilled water's PH tests out neutral, there are no minerals. Yes,I'm counting on the coolant's additives to take care of any corrosive effects due to it's purity. And it's free as I'd be throwing it away otherwise. Who'd have thought a post on water would have stirred up such an ongoing thread... | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2002 |
I bounced the anode business off my colleagues a couple of years ago. It does not work in the chemical industry. If it did work, we would not spend the huge amounts of money buying titanium, Hastelloy, and vessels made of unobtainium. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2975 Registered: 2-2001 |
Peter B, This to me seems like the answer to the question. Preventing electrolysis and no quess work as to rather it works or not. I can see where the anode would be particularly effective. Where do you get the anode and the Nulon Ultra Cool? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1762 Registered: 2-2001 |
Keep in mind that our cooling systems are not filled with pure water but at least a 50/50 mix of coolant that contains corrosion inhibitors that should make the water issue a non issue or one that is so small that is hardly worth mentioning. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 419 Registered: 1-2001 |
My understanding is that it's the PH that's important. This determines the "reactivity" of the solution and how much it will corrode. It would seem a PH=7 (neutral, neither acidic or basic) would be the best. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mercedes Benz recommends tap water unless your tap water is very hard. It's not the coating of things that destoys a cooling system. It's the corrosion (eating of the system from the inside out) that destroys the system. I believe distilled water is more reactive than tap water. Hard water will eventually clog your radiator. | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2002 |
My three degrees from college are in chemistry. Simple freshman chemistry tells you that distilled water is free from minerals that can coat your radiator and engine internals. I have well water at my house and every year I have to take my automatic ice maker and give it a thorough cleaning because of all the mineral deposits there. At $1 a gallon, distilled water bought in the store is relatively cheap. It beats anything you can rig up at your home. As a lab assistant, I used to spend a lot of time distilling water for experiments in the lab. It is not worth the trouble, Just buy the distilled water... it will pay off in the long run | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 499 Registered: 10-2001 |
Store brand water is $1 a gallon. That's what I use. | ||
| Fred (Iluv4res)
New member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2002 |
Sounds like a lot of work rather than going to the grocery store. Now, if you can make your own premium unleaded........hmmmmmm. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 147 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've done some checking with people on another list who are also very knowledgeable - regarding the tap versus distilled water for the coolant system. One says that distilled water is more reactive than tap water. This person is quite astute. I have two colleagues that are materials engineers. I'll talk to them next week. We work in a chemical plant where a lot of metal gets eaten. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 240 Registered: 5-2001 |
Larry - I'll drink to that. HeHeHeh... | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 139 Registered: 4-2002 |
Distilling spirits sounds like more fun. | ||
| Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member Username: Gts308qv Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tap Water and a good quality anti corrosion additive is the best system, changed every 12 months. I use "Nulon Ultra Cool" and all alloy internal parts and hoses stay like new clean. I also have a "sacrificial anode" placed in the top tank which neutralises elecrolysis build up in the water which causes corrosion | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 73 Registered: 1-2002 |
Richard, the aluminum head on my wife's BMW was so eaten up by corrosion to the water galleys that it was entering the exhaust port. It was constantly running low of water, and it never leaked. My mechanic said to pull the head off and check for cracks or anything else. The #6 cylinders' water galley was so badly eaten, it was forcing water right into the exhaust port and was blowing water out the exhaust along with the burnt fuel. The corrosion was caused by putting my tap water into the radiator when low. It DEFINATELY corrodes, at least my tap water does. | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2001 |
I hope it is a much-ado-about-nothing type of thing. I can't believe people have actually seen damaged water passageways in heads because of tap water. Are we sure these were properly maintained cooling systems? Or is the distilled water or die camp the same people who tell me my car will overheat if I don't run glycol solution and don't believe me when I tell them water is better than that green crap. I drain mine twice a year and the slow drip from the water pump seal onto the pulley helps keep it refreshed in between, ha! A little anti-freeze in the winter since it gets below freezing here and then drain that crap out and run straight california tap water and waterwetter the rest of the year. I'm not risking as much money here as some of you guys so I'll continue to use plain old tap water and tell you what the heads look like next time I have to pull them off. I drive the car about 1000 miles a month so that shouldn't be too many years away, ha! | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 205 Registered: 5-2001 |
VERY well put, Matt. | ||
| Matt Boyd (Mattboyd)
New member Username: Mattboyd Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2002 |
Isn't another good reason for using distilled water in the 308/being worried about corrosion...is the amount of aluminum pipes all over in the car? Particularly the pipes that run from radiator to rear of car. If you need to replace those pipes, follow these instructions: i) Remove engine ii) Remove pipes etc. Distilled water is cheap. :-) -Matt | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2953 Registered: 2-2001 |
My point exactly Craig. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 409 Registered: 1-2001 |
In a water softener, salt water is only used to back flush the resin bed to clean it of the minerals that it collected during the "softening" process. Your softener should go through several cycles of this as well as a fresh water flush to clear the resin bed of the salt water. So, if it's working properly, you should have mineral free water and no added salt. If you have salt in your water, you need to check the valves for leaks. | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 70 Registered: 1-2002 |
Magoo, the amount of salt that comes into the house from my softened water is diminutive. However using it in an aluminum engine block could be potentially harmful. My outside water is loaded with so many different minerals that it will eventually build up and clog the water galleys or eat away at the aluminum surfaces. It's happened to other vehicles I've had. I think that for the price of distilled H2O and the infrequent addition of it to the car, it's worth the $$. Now that we all have a lesson in hydrology, I think I'll add a little to my scotch | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2951 Registered: 2-2001 |
John, Two things come to mind here. One why don't you take the water, out of a outside hose bib, before it hits the water softener, and second if your softener is leaving that much salt content in your water that would damage your engine, your blood pressure should be through the roof. Seriously it sounds like the softener is set too high. Regards, | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 233 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rivee, I think you've hit the nail on the head. We're operating with different assumptions as to what tap water is like. My well water is fairly hard & also slightly acid. That's why my tap water experience differs from Lawrence & Terry's. We also have a 2-stage filter for our drinking & cooking water. I'll probably replace it with one of the compact reverse-osmosis units next year. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member Username: Dave Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2001 |
Jim, just add a little gin and serve it slightly chilled... UMMMM! | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 584 Registered: 7-2001 |
I bought a drum of Evian for my car, figured European car deserved European water. Then the dog got hold of it, drank every drop. Left me with 50 gallons of a yellow smelly substance. I don't think the yellow stuff has any impurities in it, but I don't know it's boiling point either. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2001 |
I go both ways with this water thing. My daily driver VW Scirocco gets the hose water. I put distilled in the Ferrari and the Alfa. I make gallons of it for my office needs (dentistry) so I always have some on hand. I have been around the world and back with this 308 radiator so I may be overdoing it with the distilled water but I don't mind so who cares? Why don't I do it with the VW too? I dunno. | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2002 |
Magoo, a lot of it depends where you live, weather you are on city clorinated water or if you get it from a well. I have a well and if you have hard water like I do, then you have to soften it with salt before it gets to your house which is terrible for aluminum. Some places have naturally soft water and some don't. If I used tap water in my cars I would be replacing radiators, and most water related parts within a couple of years. Distilled water is cheap insurance for me. Why would I want to risk my motor being eroded by hard water or salt for a couple of bucks? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1670 Registered: 2-2001 |
Way to go Terry, No sense over doing anything until it actually gives a problem. Just think how long it would have lasted if you boiled it's drinking water. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 170 Registered: 4-2002 |
My '88 Isuzu Trooper has only gotten water from the hose. It has 150K + miles (speedo broke so no telling how many more). I have never changed the radiator fluid. It looks nasty if you peek inside the radiator cap, so I dont. It did start leaking from the radiator a few years back, but a couple cans of stop leak goo fixed that. I did dump a 1/2 gallon of anti-freeze in about 5 years ago. This truck also has a self-oiling system. Sorta. It leaks just enough oil that I need to add 2 quarts every 3 months or so. I figure this means the oil is totally changed at least once per year. I even changed the filter a few years back! The engine bay in general is nasty, so I dont look in there very often. The A/C compressor clutch makes an amazing racket at idle. I was going to replace it, but decided to just live with the noise until it actually died. That was 3 years ago. It does leak freon at a rate that requires a recharge every 2 years. I plan on replacing the old thing when it finally dies. That plan has been in place for 4 years now. It just keeps on running fine. Ugly, slow, worthless and indistructible. Gotta love the Trooper! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1137 Registered: 9-2001 |
BTW - I import my water for my car from italy $50 a liter | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1136 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ed - good point and I do make my own sometimes - I guess I posted the question because there was so much debate on making ones own. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1668 Registered: 2-2001 |
Why would anyone purchase distilled water for a dollar when you can manufacture your own with several hours work and know that it is perfect water. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 126 Registered: 4-2002 |
Well here is my 2 cents worth. I have never used distilled water in any car. My oldest one, a 1980 Mercedes has been on a steady diet of tap water and bi-annual antifreeze changes (change every 2 years) for 22 years now. There has been no problem and it is all aluminum. My 328, maintained just like the above Mercedes, has had the same treatment with the same result. On this last service, I swapped out the water pump. The one that came off was just fine. The clearances looked normal. Then there was my 300E that we kept for 130K and 7 years. I have a 400E, 9 years old and 104K, that has been kept the same way. Mercedes and Porsche recommend tap water. Just change the coolant when you're supposed to change it. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1125 Registered: 9-2001 |
sorry I got lost in this thread - why can't you go to the store and buy distilled water for $1. Thats what I do | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 227 Registered: 5-2001 |
WOW, I wasn't expecting to need nomex glasses to read responses to this post! I concur with the pro distilled water guys. I'll stick with my contention that the water distilled out of air that has been thru a good filter on my dehumidifier intake has one heck of a lot less minerals in it then my tap water. Arguably, whatever pollution gets past the filter is well within the ability of the coolant's additives to neutralize. Even w/o the filtering, I breathe a lot of that air every day, so I wouldn't be afraid to drink it. The first time you heat mineral laden water up, it precipitates a lot of the minerals out & they only partially re-dissolve. Changing the coolant only removes the minerals in solution. The net effect is still a slow build-up. I've had to replace radiators on 3 different cars at about 90K miles even tho I change the coolant every couple of years. In every case, the cooling system had significant white mineral (probably lime) deposits that had started to flake off & clogged up the radiators. Also, a couple of times I've noticed a jelly like substance in areas of lower flow velocity. Whatever this jelly is, it can't help the heat transfer. What really impressed me about my 308 was the total absence of any kind of deposits in the engine & the few coolant hoses & tubes I've disconnected from time to time. It's pristine. I've NEVER seen this in a 5 year old car before, much less a 20 year old one. I've switched to using my home distilled water in all my vehicles. Also, since I've started using it in my aquarium, I haven't had problems with creeping ph problems, mineral deposits, or hardness. My new fish survival rate has also been significantly improved. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2949 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think the distilled water use came with the old batterys when it was recommended to use only distilled water. So maybe someone thought use it in the radiator also. Like Ed, I have never seen a problem from using tap water. Drain it every year and your cooling system will be fine. | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
Junior Member Username: Davem Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2002 |
Being in the restaurant biz i can tell you distilled water is the way to go. I spend a lot of money on sophisticated filter sytems to take out minerals, pollutants an cooties. The importance can vary depending where your water comes from but for the price of distilled water relative to everything else its a no-brainer | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 66 Registered: 1-2002 |
I have always used distilled water in my vehicles' cooling systems, windshild washer bottle, batteries, clothes irons, and small hand held steam cleaner. The aluminum heads and block will corode away if you don't. The minerals, calcium, and salts in drinking water will eventually corode the water galleys in your block. The BMW I once had was always filled with tap water before I bought it at 3 1/2 years old. After a few months I noticed the coolant was continually getting low and it was over heating. Talked to a mechanic who said it was probably from using tap water in the cooling system. (aluminum head) Sure enough the head was so eaten up it was shooting water into the exhaust port and blowing water out the along with the burnt fuel emissions. Being that the F cars blocks are ALL aluminum, I would consider the use of distilled water in them. I have found it on sale at K-Mart for $.59/gallon. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 64 Registered: 6-2002 |
Scott - depending on where you live - I agree. Los Angeles rain water is rich in junk. Montana rain water may be more appealing. All in all, distilled water in a controlled environment is better stuff. I concur. It was merely the mechanism of arriving at water out of the air that seemed similar to other approaches. In fact, boiling water to vapor, and then condensing against cool glass is no different than the dehumidifier approach. What you are suggesting is that when done in a controlled, closed environment, you have a purer product. Jim Selevan | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
New member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2002 |
Actually, I use distilled water in mine.........  Jeff | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member Username: Dave Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2001 |
The problem with tap water depending on where you live, are the wonderful minerals in the water that over time can build up in your water passages... It's the same reason you should use distilled water in your iron. Yes I do use distilled water in my cars/iron, and yes I have seen problems separating heads from blocks as well as a few very nasty looking irons | ||
| Scott Grossman (Sngsmgaolcom)
Junior Member Username: Sngsmgaolcom Post Number: 71 Registered: 2-2002 |
James, You dont want to be drinking rainwater either. Pre Industrial revolution, when the air had a minimum of pollutants rain water was the next best thing to an artesian well, but now days if your drinking unfiltered/untreated rainwater, and live in the US or Europe, your getting more particulate matter than is safe. Scott | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1660 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have been using tap water in thousands of vehicles including my own for over 30 years and I have never heard of any repair outlet that does use distilled water and have never had a problem. Much ado about nothing IMHO. | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2001 |
Everyone has always said you should run distilled water in your radiator but I've never met anyone who actually does it, ha! Do you guys? I just put in tap water and some redline water wetter and hit the road (and add anti-freeze in the winter). | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 63 Registered: 6-2002 |
Scott - interesting thought. However, how is rain made - by "chilling incoming air." Water vapor in the atmosphere rises with mountain uplift, is cooled, and precipitates out of gaseous form into droplets of water. During low pressure induced rain (a front or storm), the low pressure and cooler air does the same thing. Is that any different than a humidifier? Your input appreciated. Jim Selevan | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
New member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2001 |
lol.. sounds like tripple DUH | ||
| Scott Grossman (Sngsmgaolcom)
Junior Member Username: Sngsmgaolcom Post Number: 70 Registered: 2-2002 |
Uh Verell, Not sure I want to burst your bubble but the water from a dehumidifer is not distilled. It's got a shitload of dissolved impurities, and you dont want to be drinking it. Dehumidifiers work by chilling incomming air not by heat. HTH Scott | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Junior Member Username: Verell Post Number: 226 Registered: 5-2001 |
ACTUALLY, YOU'RE PROBABLY ALREADY DISTILLING IT & THROWING IT AWAY! I'd not found a convenient source for distilled water. So I was collecting rain water & adjusting the ph if it was too acid. I was keeping a 5-gallon covered bucket around for contingencies. When I went to put fresh coolant in the engine this spring, I discovered the bucket was empty. While bemoaning my frustration, my wife pointed out that the 4-7 buckets/wk our basement dehumidifier was producing was distilled water(DUH). Every other day or two for the last 16 years, one of us had been hauling a bucket out of the basement & watering plants with it, or just dumping it out(Double DUH)! NO MORE HAULING & DISTILLED WATER IS NOW ON TAP! I rigged heating system float operated pump in the bottom of the collection bucket & ran 1/2" PVC pipe out of the basement & into an old Coleman 40 quart cooler. The cooler lid seals tight enough to keep mosquitoes from getting in to infest the water, but lets the cooler overflow. I just have to pull the line out of the cooler's drain tap openning whenever I want distilled water. Now I've got ~10 gallons of distilled water on hand all thru the driving season. CAUTION: If you do this, Make sure the pump has a check valve in it, and also put a second check valve in the line near the outlet. Otherwise you can siphon a lot of water back into the basement in a hurry(Don't ask). BTW:I also put a sheet of air conditioner filter foam across the dehumidifier's air intake to keep dust out of the collected water. Also, cleaning the foam is a lot less work than cleaning collected dust off of the dehumidifier's condenser coils every couple of months. |