| Author | Message | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 317 Registered: 1-2003 |
Okay, Rob, if you are reading this, will you please delete at least my portion of it. I certainly did not mean to set off an explosion. I will make no more replies to this topic and if I offended anyone other than Randall, please accept my apologies. It should never have been taken this far and I tried to defuse it with my acceptance of fault and offering an aplology for it. Jere out. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3174 Registered: 9-2001 |
we should have an off topic and a way off topic section  | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 274 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't know why this can't just be deleted. He ranted about a ship currently serving in the Gulf, saying things he shouldn't. I showed several people I work with and they all think he looks like a jackass. It isn't up to Jere to declassify information. It is up to him to keep his mouth shut at the appropriate times. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1238 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jere: There is absolutely no further reason for you to apologize to Randall. You don't disclose any "secrets" and you have responded appropriately. If Randall is so fixated on this issue, maybe it isn't this issue, if you get what I mean. Art | ||
| Mike Clark (Vipersrt)
Junior Member Username: Vipersrt Post Number: 71 Registered: 10-2002 |
This argument is stupid | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 316 Registered: 1-2003 |
Randall, 30 year old information that is now published in a book on Fighting Ships of the world is hardly worth exchanging words over. Did I mention anything about armnaments, range, purpose or any of those things. No!! And besides all that, I have not held a security clearance since I left the military. Do you think anything has changed in the past 30 years?? Do you think there have been any changes that I do not have even the slightest idea of. I believe the whole of the military has been turned upside down and I would not know it if I went back in today. And besides that, why are you so concerned that I said that an aircraft carrier could do over 30 kts.? Just a look at the picture will reveal that to you. Man, where do you come from, attacking me the way you do and then attacking our involvement in Iraq and our Presidents decisions? I guess I should feel in pretty good company. You slam me and the President both. I can appreciate your concern if I had said something that made a difference anywhere. Do you really believe that other countries do not already know the operating specs. of the ships of our Navy? You for one know better than that. A sub sitting off and observing during high speed tests can gather more information about the surface ships above than someone saying that they had info 30 years ago about the speed of any said vessels. And so no one will be mistaken and think that I am giving out current information. I definitely am not. The only thing I know is based on information I know 30 (THIRTY) years ago. It is by no means representative of any current specifications. Randall, I am really glad I am not one of your shipmates. I cannot imagine being cooped up with you for two months at a time having to listen to you complain about the governments decisions and actions in world events today and then having to watch my back to make sure I did not say something like "Carriers? Why yes, they do carry jet fighters and arm them with missiles". I would be afraid you would report me for subversive activities while you spread your contempt for the US and its actions unbridled. Man, who are you to point a finger at anyone? Well, I am pointing it back at you. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 272 Registered: 2-2003 |
I have two dozen pictures from the accident with the cruiser that ended up under the fighter. I believe this was RAF Lakenheath. I was stationed at RAF Mildenhall at the time. I had photos in my e-mail hours after it happened. Lets just say, that, this is one of a couple dozen photos taken and published without the prior concent of the Public Relations dept. Uhhh, oops! The driver simply looked away and was going too fast for runway driving. The plane suffered several hundred thousand in structural damage. Can we say.. UIF?? (Unfavorable Information File.. in the Military, if your trying for promotion at higher ranks, its the kiss of death, it haunts you wherever you go) Jere, if you haven't gathered, Mike probably held a clearance. Or, at least, he knows more about them then people I know who do have them, lol. When you think about that, its pretty sad. I used to hold one. | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 272 Registered: 1-2003 |
There's a huge difference between civilians making a statement about classified information and DOD or ex-DOD personnel making a statement. It really does sicken me that someone that claims to have been in an intelligence field would rant the way he did. The fact that other people want to defend him is even more disturbing. If he's this loose lipped while online, how does he get when he's drinking at a bar? | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 275 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jere, No problem, bud. You don't need to apologize to me, though it's an appreciated and venerable gesture. I'm just a kid more or less, it's not really my place and all. Regarding clearances, a public forum on the internet is not the right place for me to go into any details, so I'll refrain from answering your question. I'm not in the military. I know where you're coming from, though, about Jane's. You said it was classified--if that were the case, then Jane's wouldn't have it, or they'd have a more conservative figure. In any case, a discharge and an inactive clearance doesn't free anybody from any obligations! Fred, if the info were in fact classified, the general idea is, a google search isn't going to get you what you're looking for . And Jere, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be a prick. --Mike | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 686 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have to believe that if anyone of us wanted to we could have found that information right here on your friendly neighborhood internet in about 60 seconds. Maybe longer for those with a dial up connection. | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 310 Registered: 1-2003 |
Mike, Buddy, I admitted I made a mistake in even mentioning anything about the operatable speed of the carriers. But, as Art said, that information is now available in Janes Fighting Ships. And not to worry, I received my discharge at the end of the Viet Nam war so I am certain that I no longer hold a "Secret" clearance that I used to. I have been a civilian for 30 years. And, BTW, I do respect the clearances and anyone involved in todays actions. Mike, are you in the military and hold a security clearance or are you just dogging me about a matter that I thought was put to rest several days ago. How many times do I need to apologize for saying what I did????? Do I need to ask every person on this forum to forgive me? If so, let me begin with you. Mike, I admit I made a mistake in saying what the speed of a carrier from 30 year old information is. I ask for your forgiveness in this matter. Will you please forgive me?? Now, have you never made a mistake? If you have, will you be man enough to admit it?? Will you admit it and ask forgiveness in front of the whold world?? I do not believe what I said will in any way inhibit or endanger the operation of any carrier battle group in any way at any time. With that said, can we put this issue behind us? I believe there are more pressing issues at hand. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 268 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hate to bring something up that's been a few days back, but Jere, if you're being serious about the carrier figure being classified, then you should have your clearance revoked. Most of the cleared individuals among us actually respect what their clearance stands for. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1580 Registered: 7-2001 |
Here it is... http://www.aviatorart.com/blair/b-power.htm | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1579 Registered: 7-2001 |
Jordan is right, the B1 picture is a painting, also available as a limited edition print. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Intermediate Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 1087 Registered: 1-2001 |
From the Yahoo photos Iraq slidehow thingy (where the link no longer works), and NO I did NOT make this up. Caption: British troops from 2 Platoon 1 Parachute Regiment, part of 16 Air Assault Brigade, take a break from patrolling the front line near Basra to cool down and freshen up by means of an improvised shower unit in Iraq (news - web sites) April 7, 2003. British troops guarded by tanks and helicopter gunships walked unopposed into the centre of the city Basra on Monday, meeting a warm reception in the narrow streets of the old quarter. REUTERS/POOL/Ministry of Defense/Giles Penfold Photo:  Altho I sure could think of serveral other good captions...I'm sure we could come up with hundreds. - The backsides of war - Showing off the coalition GUNS -Ben | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Intermediate Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 1086 Registered: 1-2001 |
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030407/170/3qg98.html | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 649 Registered: 12-2002 |
Yea the B-1 picture is actually a painting if Im not mistaken. The carrier picture is just unreal! | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3617 Registered: 8-2002 |
Will do Art, I'll call you in the P.M. Matt | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1218 Registered: 6-2001 |
Matt: Even with Bob's great offer I can't make it. I'm flying down to LA with my instructor in his Duke, and I can't get from the ride to Fontana. If you're not doing anything in the PM, come out and watch the motorcyles. 415-699-1128 is my cell, if you call, I can probably get you a ticket or two. Art | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3608 Registered: 8-2002 |
Art, are you coming tomorrow? If so, Bob and I have some to share. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1217 Registered: 6-2001 |
Okay, I get it now. What are you guys smoking? No fair unless you share. Art | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3600 Registered: 8-2002 |
Willis, French, Russian...What's the difference | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 870 Registered: 12-2001 |
Arlie: Have you read Rule By Secrecy? It ties the Roswell episode together with the Bildenberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, the Rockefellers, the Bushes and early pre-Egyptian civilization. I know DES has read it.... | ||
| Nebula Class (Nebulaclass)
Member Username: Nebulaclass Post Number: 322 Registered: 11-2002 |
Randall the MP - GET A GRIP! What an A$$HOLE. You think the Russians don't already know the top speed of the Nimitz? Do you actually think that elusive 12kps was a big national "secret?" What a d!ck. Yes SIR, officer Randy! Here's a cookie, officer Randy, for catching that awful secret spoiler, Jere! Officer Randy has saved the country! The world loves officer Randy now! Yaaaaahhh!! | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1193 Registered: 8-2001 |
Those colliding jets are Russian Su-27s. They have a habit of crashing in airshows. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Junior Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 97 Registered: 12-2002 |
Arlie, Are you a 3rd level member of the Alpha-Omicron Consortium? If so, why are you talking about the lien-a aft-cre that we ecovered-re in oswell-re? You know the supreme leader would be most displeased if he knew the recruits were discussing the next mission or our previous missions without his blessing. I will have to report you to Beta sector! | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 945 Registered: 5-2002 |
There were actually 2 different locations near Roswell where the alien spacecraft was recovered. It exploded in flight over Mac Brazzel's ranch, and debris fell to earth on his property and was recovered by the truckload several days later by Roswell AFB security officer Jesse Marcell. The alien bodies themselves were recovered along with the main portion of the spacecraft about 2 miles away. But not before several people happened upon it early the next morning. The complete story, with dozens of witness testimonies, is in the book, "The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell" by Kevin Randall. An excellent book. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3174 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike, i already knew... | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Junior Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 94 Registered: 12-2002 |
Jere, Luckily you didn't spill the beans about the recovered alien craft from Roswell we've been using to fly into the Kremlin at night un-noticed! .... oh $%)#!!! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1215 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jare: Don't get too upset over it. I read quite a bit, and I've read material that says essentially the same thing you said. Janes has that information, and Janes is public information. Although you may have broken a rule, you didn't injure anyone, nor did you say something that was new and unknown. I'd ask Rob to remove your post, and maybe this thread, so it doesn't cause you further embarassment, and maybe trouble. Art | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 2741 Registered: 6-2001 |
have you treid editing it or has it been too long? | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 292 Registered: 1-2003 |
David, Thank you for going to bat for me, but I made an error and Randall corrected me. True, he was a little harsh in his administration of it, but I had it coming. The information I shared is classified and I should never have shared it. The numbers that are listed by the Navy are put there for a purpose and even those of us who happen to know anything different should not divulge anything more. Randall, thank you for shutting me up. Just next time, if it ever happens again, could you do it a little more gently. That one really stung. I made an error in judgement and now realize it. Thank goodness the class of ship I last served on have all be decommissioned and are no longer in service, so the info I gave on it is irrelavent anyway. | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 796 Registered: 9-2001 |
Have a safe & happy weekend EVERYONE! | ||
| David R. (Rodsky)
New member Username: Rodsky Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2003 |
Take a pill Randall - you seem overly aggressive - in a lot of threads | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 291 Registered: 1-2003 |
Randall, Enough said. Red faced I am. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1214 Registered: 6-2001 |
Better them than us. | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 256 Registered: 1-2003 |
Jere- That was a tip to shut your mouth. I'm sure you're proud of whatever you know, and by the looks of it you'll tell everyone you can. All the ships have specific numbers that are put out, and those are the numbers you should share if asked. You're concerned about me doing my job poperly, when you've proved that you can't. You're just another example of how the phrase "military intelligence" is an oxymoron. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3588 Registered: 8-2002 |
Art, it's not the blue angels, those are French jets....no joke. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1213 Registered: 6-2001 |
I hope that picture of the Blue Angeles is a fake. Anyone know? My wife's uncle started them in the 40s. Art | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 289 Registered: 1-2003 |
Randall, Read it 30+. I read the same spec. sheet you did. I also worked with carriers for two years and know some of the speeds our ship had to do sometimes in drills. I know you are a submariner and nuke qualified. On surface ships, the Navy specs are very open. On the last ship I was on, it was rated in the specs at 32kts. During one of our high speed tests, we tested at 46 kts. What they rate and what they can really do are two different things. I would bet that what we read a nuke sub can do underwater and what they are really capable of are two different things too. Of course, the ships do not perform very often like they do in high speed drills. Those are only very short spurts of maximum power to test the overall readiness and capabilities of the ship. If they tried to operate very long at that amount of stress, they would probably come apart. Oh, and Randall, a true story you can appreciate. Once while we were leaving Gitmo (Cuba) close to Christmas, we noticed a periscope off the port side about 1000 yards out running parallel to us. Two weeks later we received a Christmas card from the commander of the sub showing us in the crosshairs of the periscope. On the inside of the card was the Christmas greeting. "Whoosh, whoosh, you're dead. Merry Christmas from the crew of-----------------". Made quite an impact. No pun intended. | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Junior Member Username: Randall Post Number: 250 Registered: 1-2003 |
Jere- The Nimitz speed is 30+ Knots according to Navy specs. Didn't you say you were in an intelligence field? | ||
| LionsFan54 (Lionsfan54)
New member Username: Lionsfan54 Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2003 |
The B-1 pic is a fake | ||
| Jere Dunham (Questioner)
Member Username: Questioner Post Number: 286 Registered: 1-2003 |
Ahhh, the USS Nimitz out of San Diego. Looks to me like she was doing some of the required high-speed tests after a period of drydock or standdown. A carrier is actually a fast ship, not quick, just fast. The only problem about them going fast is trying to stop them. Unfortunately, they do not have Brembo brake systems. A carrier at flank speed (top speed) can actually do in excess of 40 knots. For something over 1,000 feet long and ungodly heavy, this is amazing. When doing these high speed turns, if you work in a seated position, radar, sonar, weapons console or any of the other such positions, you are seat belted in. Yes, you actually have seat belts. Quite a ride. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1191 Registered: 8-2001 |
How many G's do you suppose that carrier's pulling? | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Member Username: Icnsltmfg Post Number: 556 Registered: 8-2001 |
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| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Member Username: Icnsltmfg Post Number: 555 Registered: 8-2001 |
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