| Author | Message | ||
| Mfennell70 (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 111 Registered: 7-2001 |
Autocrossing is a GREAT way to learn car control and line selection. Of roadracing bikes, roadracing cars, and autocrossing, I've found autocrossing to easily be the most frustrating. I have decent car control and can go fast given a number of laps but walking a course, finding reference points, and *applying* them right away is really hard. I'll bet that there's an SCCA class where DES' Saturn is reasonably competitive. | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Junior Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 204 Registered: 5-2001 |
DES, I'm with Rob and William. I've only autocrossed once, but they are absolutely right. Ours was part of one of the courses at Road Atlanta -it was on a small hillside with lots of little elevation and camber changes. You could only go through in 2nd gear the whole way, but a lot of fun! And as they said, much better to learn car control tactics in second gear speeds than flat out on the track (I spun in the rain at Road Atlanta after coming into a corner with too much entry speed - next thing you know I'm instantly backwards looking over my shoulder at the wall rushing towards me. "In a spin, both feet in" --clutch and brake--somehow saved my ass, but I was pretty shaken up for the rest of the day and had to build that trust back). I was starting out right where you were about a year-and-a-half ago and practice literally every time I drive. The techniques are the same at 25mph as they are at 125. It's now become a passion! I'm sure you'll have much the same experience. Final thoughts - do a search and check out links to videos of guys like Jon Koford and Rob Lay. I still watch their in-car videos to study - you can pick up a lot. Have fun! ~Chris | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 827 Registered: 9-2001 |
I agree, joining the SCCA s the best thing that I have done (if you don't mind the BS politics) Some good people, make lots of friends & learn more about your car & improve your driving skills. Do some SOLO II events & learn as much as can & a great place to start. Enjoy. Here's some other options for driving schools to give you an idea. www.thedriversedge.net TEXAS ONLY www.speedventures.net all across the USA | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 516 Registered: 11-2002 |
BTW, autocross will teach you great emergency car control. Plus, everything you learn in a parking lot is transferable to road racing. Autocrosses lack of practice (walk the course only) and changing circuits week to week produces quick learners when it comes to road racing. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 515 Registered: 11-2002 |
DES, here's your answer: autocross. Do a search for your area and you'll come up with plenty of links. There are autocross (solo II) only clubs plus www.scca.org is the largest sanctioning body for this parking lot activity. Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. This is where I started as a teenager. Top drivers like Randy Pobst were national champions at autocross before making a name in professional road racing. $20 gets you a full day of fun and plenty of new friends. Most have driver instruction, and everyone is more than helpful. Best part is you already own your race car. Just empty out the trunk and dump out the floor mats, set cold tire pressures to 45 psi front and 28 rear (you've got a front-driver, right?), shoe polish or magnetic numbers, helmet, done! BTW, I've autocrossed Ferrari's before, fun but not too fast. Though there was a gentleman Solo'ing his 360 in 2000 and did very well nationally. Do it, do it, do it!  | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3352 Registered: 8-2002 |
Whart, Hubert, Chris - Awesome, thanks...! Keep 'em coming, i can use all the advice i can get... If it's my ego that needs some track time, then so be it, but one way or another, i need to know for sure... Hubert, thanks for the link... $150 + $20 is a lot more affordable than Skip Barber (although i definitely want to get to S.B. at some point)... i think it's awesome that you're getting a racing license... Please keep us posted on how things go... | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Junior Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 199 Registered: 5-2001 |
DES, Barber also has a thorough book out. Bob Bondurant also has a couple books out which are very good. One is on high performance driving and one is on police pursuit training. Believe it or not, the police version is the one I would recommend as it's all geared toward driving on public roads/intersections, etc. The fist is geared toward the track, but great to know anyway. There's crossover between the two, obviously, but not enough not to get both if you can swing it. I'm a graduate of three high performance driving schools and there's absolutely no substitute for the real thing, but I started out by reading these books and they were a big help (not to mention saving you thousands!) Best, ~Chris | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 720 Registered: 1-2002 |
The first element in learning how to "drive" any car is taking the education OFF the road. Find an HPDE (high performance driver education) event at one of your local tracks, enroll, and pay the premium (usually $20 extra) to have an instructor coach you for the entire day. Having track experience now, and know what my car can do, how it does, and how badly I can drive before I get bit have now made me realize that for me to even begin to approach "the limits" of my car on the street I'd have to drive like a COMPLETE idiot, and would easily get my liscense revoked. I'm sure you've got natural talent des, but anyone short of Schumi et. al. isn't. going to feel totally comfortable in any car b/c of their level of skill. Not to mention the bankrole to back up that skill should it lapse, briefly. Point: Get some GOOD brake pads for the saturn, rent a helmet, and spend the $150 bucks on an HPDE. You'll learn more about your car, driving, etc. in one day than most people do in a lifetime on the street. Find an event in your area, here: http://www.opentracking.com/track_events.htm Or, fly out here for one of "our" events, and ride in a variety of cars, observe, etc. but that wont be nearly as educational as getting out there on your own, and having someone critique your driving, and your inherant and latent errors. PS- i'll be going for my racing liscense ( NASA 1st, then SCCA) this summer. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 916 Registered: 12-2001 |
Part of what you are describing though, DES, is just getting the feel of a car that is roadworthy, has a good suspension, some power, is sufficiently light to make turns without body roll, etc. Time behind the wheel is invaluable. Skip Barber was great, and on an almost unconscious level, some of what i learned stuck as time went on, driving road cars on the street, but the skippy cars (the formula jr. ones, anyways) are set up to be very revealing of driver inputs. Street cars are usually alot more forgiving. Spend time behind the wheel even of a Miata, and i assure you, if you are used to appliance-type vehicles, it will be a revelation. It only gets better.(The real fun in these cars, to me, is not the highway, though; its the twisties, and the backroads). As you relax in driving one of these things, you get a pretty good feel for what its doing, and you almost become one with the car. (That's what i'm starting to enjoy about the motorcycle experience, not just a disconnected series of tasks, like shifting, braking, steering, etc. That's about as karmic/holisitic as i get). | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3349 Registered: 8-2002 |
They are a definite consideration, i just need a little time and money before i go to a place like that... Thank you, though... | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1284 Registered: 6-2001 |
Skip Barber. Call them, a little pricey, but a very, very good education. Their on the web, with locations all over the USA. ARt | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3347 Registered: 8-2002 |
If you didn't already know, i had the opportunity to drive a Porsche Boxster convertible last night... Just as i read in a magazine some time ago, Porsche is underrated... Now the stigma attached to the Boxster - at least for me - is that because it's the cheapest of the new models, it's the slowest... Maybe i'm wrong in my assumption, but these impressions form in my head for no particular reason... In any case, it was a lot quicker than i thought... Maybe that was part of the problem... Let me explain... Doing a favor for one of my boss' associates, i got to his house, completing my journey of getting much-needed materials to their DEStination... In turn, he let me take his car for a spin around the neighborhood... i got in and slowly eased it down the driveway, onto the street... i slowly drifted to the corner and turned down a longer street... As soon as the car was straight, i suffocated the gas pedal... BOOM...! This thing had kick, let me tell you... It was no 550, that's for sure, but it accelerated quicker than the NSX... Whoa, i thought... i clutched, took the car out of gear and let it roll to a stop at the stop sign... Hmmm, which way do i go...? Left looks longer... i turned left and once again buried the gas pedal... VROOM...! Clutch, neutral, roll... Damn... This is what real sports car power is...? How come it's more than i expected from a Boxster and i'm still not smiling...? How come i'm rolling around this guy's still-being-developed neighborhood in his car, by myself, with the top down and i feel uneasy...? Is SiCkSpEeD, himself, having a problem with speed...? Wtf...? The stop sign in front of me stood still, just like everything else around me... Good... There was no traffic... The road immediately in front of me went up and curved to the left (please keep the phallus comments to a minimum, )... i slipped the car into first and gave it some considerable gas... It was windy out... i turned the wheel in compliance with what the road's form dictated... The steering was very tight... This is definitely a sports car, no doubt about it... i gripped the stout, thick, knob of the shifter and brought the car into second... The shifter in my car was at least 3 times as tall and 1/3 as wide as this...The gears were very close together, just like they were in the NSX... the car flew up the hill and was just about to put it into third when i saw another stop sign... Damn these little residential neighborhoods...! i u-turned and uneasily raced back down the hill, this time making a left at the bottom... There was a nice strip of straight that allowed me to open the car up on... Well... at least i thought i could open it up... Still not happy with the fact that i hadn't immediately adjusted to car's capabilities, i let it rip... As sort of a personal signature, i redlined in first like i always do... i dropped the stick to second, reapplied the gas and was just about to relocate the stick into third gear when the road just stopped... Gee, i wonder how Porsche's brakes are... .............STOP Time to turn around... Now i had a more accurate feel of how long the road was... Let's do it, i thought... No peeling out, no skidding, no chirping tires, i just went from still to blur as i ripped from first, right through second and well into third... i really shouldn't be going this fast in a residential neighborhood, i thought... i slowed it down and hung a left back towards the part of the development where the Porsche lived... One or two more blocks of a little acceleration to sum things up and i returned the little Boxster to its owner, with gracious thank-yous... Here's the problem... When i drove the NSX, it was in a very long straight line... i twitched the steering wheel, which gave me a feel of how tight the steering wheel was, but i didn't need to turn, so i didn't get a full impression of the car, force, and the car's power... With the Boxster, i did... Now, i think several things played into this whole thing, but i'm not fully sure... 1. If i had the car out on, let's say, the parkway, with a fighting chance of opening it up and getting a true feel for it, would i have felt as nervous and uneasy...? 2. Did my nervousness of driving someone else's sports car add to the uneasiness i believe was created once i found out how much power the car had...? 3. When i was a kid, i was hit by a speeding car in a residential neighborhood, so i'm always mindful of my actions in neighborhoods like those...Did that play into the whole scheme of things...? Have i just duped myself into thinking i could drive these things and really can't...? If i ever have the chance to really drive a real sports car on some real roads, will i not push it like i push mt Saturn...? i felt so at home, so immediately comfortable in the NSX, but from start to finish, i was uneasy in the Boxster and i really doubt it was the car... Any suggestions, insight, input, etc...? i'd really appreciate it, thanks... |