| Author | Message | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 509 Registered: 4-2002 |
Go here for more cool info on early 911's. If you not looking for a car that must do daily driver duties.... GET AN EARLY 911! http://www.rgruppe.org/ http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=8 http://www.early911sregistry.org/ No doubt in my mind. Of all the cars I have owned and driven, the early lightweight and tricked out 911 is the most bang for the buck and sheer grin generating experience I have found. So, if you dont need A/C and lots of heavy power options and you dont mind LOUD, get one! | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 310 Registered: 4-2003 |
Terry, I can't believe it but I'm starting to look at the 911 in a whole different way. At least the early ones. Your 911 sounds great, if and when I pull the trigger on this project I'll have to get some tips from you. In the meantime i'm going to check out those books you and Dale reccomend. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 501 Registered: 4-2002 |
Porsche 911 Performance Handbook by Bruce Anderson. 101 Projects for your Porsche 911 by Wayne Dempsey. He also has written How to Rebuild and Modify your Porsche 911 Engine. The rebuild book is like 300 pages and comes with a CD that has literally thousands of pictures.... There is a big distinction in the early 911s and later 911s. The 1965 to 1968 cars were short wheelbase. They had zero flares to the fenders, some quirky engine things and handling that built the 911 "bite you" reputation. The 1969 to 1973 911s are early car perfection. They are lightweight (my '69 911S factory specs list 2150lb). They offer incredible handling, nifty ergonomics and great build quality. You will pay a premium for an "S". An "E" will cost more than a "T". The "E"'s are great cars, as are the "T"'s. I am partial to the "S" which is basically a racecar for the street. The fun thing is a "T" can be rebuilt to "S" specs.... My car has the RS spec Mechanically injected engine. About 220hp. The MFI injection system offers throttle response that is second to none. It delivers the fuel at over 240psi... the great atomization coupled with how the system delivers fuel for acceleration makes for a VERY fun to drive car! | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
New member Username: Drtax Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vincent, get The Used 911 Story by Peter Zimmermann, PMZ Publications. Covers 65-98 911s Great book. BTW, here's a pic of my 1973.5 911T with less than 20k original miles. Enjoy  | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 293 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ross, Point well taken. I have no illusions that a restoration project of the nature I am talking about is not a money maker. What I'm really after is some more mechanical experience, and hopefully to end up with a really fun cool little car. I've been looking at the 911's and there seems to be so many options. If anyone knows of a good resource book that would spell out for me the differences between the models that would be great. I wouldn't mind if same book also included 356's. I have a great source for Porsche parts and mech. knowledge so I feel fairly confident about the whole thing. though, it might be a little while before I pull the trigger. In the meantime i want to do as muc research as possible. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1203 Registered: 3-2002 |
terry and dale are right. if you want more of a drivers car then go with 911. the parts and other resources available for this car are amazing. another interesting project would be to take a stock 911 and make it into an rs version. obviously the originals are extremely expensive, but the parts are all available for you to make one yourself. if performance is not the purpose of this car, and you want something that you won't see everywhere else, then a 356 is interesting. health warning: i am sure you have been told this but it bears repeating. you are not going to buy a car, restore/uprate it, and end up with a car whose value equals the amount of money and effort you put into the project. so you might want to have a look at some of the cars in each category that have already been done and see if you don't want to just pick up where the previous owner ran out of steam/money/enthusiasm. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 284 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks for all the input everyone. You�re right I need to go and drive some of these cars. I don�t belong to a club but there is a certain appeal to a convertible where I live as it is nice about 8 months out of the year. And I have an A4 for when the roads suck. I think that I�m going to look around at the early 911�s and 356�s cab. Drive both and see which one really grabs my attention. I already have a pretty good driving car in the 348  . So I don�t think I�m too worried if this project car isn�t a rocket, though I may change my mind after a test drive or 2. I will also have to consider the parts availability and it sounds like the 911 has that covered best. Can�t wait to take some test drives, and look at some cars. Ross, I�ll definitely be picking your brain. In the meantime is there a good book out there discussing these early model 911�s and 356�s? Vincent BTW, sweet cars Terry! | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
New member Username: Drtax Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vincent, my recommendation is to drive a 356 before diving into the deep end of the pool. No doubt that a 356 Cab can look way cool. But, as far as driving, the 911s have them beat. Remember, 356s didn't get disc brakes until 64 or 65. There's more, but if you want a show car or something cool to pull up in at the club, get a 356 cab. But if you want a driver, get a 911. Dale | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 498 Registered: 4-2002 |
Go with an early 911! The 1969 to 1973 911's are really fantastic cars. They are extremely well engineered, very easy and fun to work on and parts availablity is not an issue. There are also MASSIVE options on upgrades and performance mods plus a huge cult following. These cars are very lightweight, can be made to give tremendous power and handle like go-carts. There is tons of material available on "how to" for everything from a complete engine rebuilt to body restoration. My '69 911S is the most fun car I have ever driven. I drove a Daytona last saturday with a competition spec engine. My 911S is quicker and handles better. The more I work on and tinker with this little 911, the more I am blown away at the quality of engineering. EVERY little detail is extremely well thought out. They are amazing cars! You can get a decent driver 2.4 '72 or '73 911T for well under $10K. From there the sky is the limit. I prefer the earlier '69 to '71 cars for the 901 transmission but only if its an E or S and they cost more. The real "S" cars are big bucks relatively speaking... and a T car can be easily modified to give even more power. If your really interested in an early 911, let me know. I can talk you through all the issues and things to look for.  | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 976 Registered: 12-2002 |
Ive seen a few chopped 911 coupes but they arent worth it. The targa models are about as close as the early 911s come to convertibles. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 282 Registered: 4-2003 |
Dale, thanks for the support. What if I rebuilt the 356 with upgrades. Engine, suspension, and brakes. Might be more fun that way and a better driver. But it also might be fun to restore one vs. rebuild one into a little rocket. Not sure about that one yet. What engines will fit into the 356? 911's are pretty sweet too, though they don't move me quite the same way a 356 does. Are there early 911 cabs? I'm going to have to learn more before I do anything. That's half the fun anyway. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
New member Username: Drtax Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vincent, Glad to see that you are taking the right fork in the road. This might make for an interesting study someday. After WWII, the Japanese invested only in new technology. The Brits on the other hand didn't. They kept doing things the way they did before the war. The technology in my 1970 Triumph is basically the same as it was in 1938. What was hot in 1938 had grown stone cold by 1970. If you're interested in Porsches, I'd highly recommend a 911 over a 356 (putting flame suit on). It takes the same amount of work to rebuild either one, but project 911s are a lot cheaper than 356s. Plus, when you're done, you will have a better car. 356s may look sexy, but they drive like an old VW Bug (heading into bomb shelter). A 911 (even a 1973T model like mine) can still pin your ears back after all these years. Just my 2 cents and some change. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1193 Registered: 3-2002 |
dale you are so right. i have an mgb, which i have kind of shoved to the back of my mind and garage. i have had to rebuild nearly everything on that car - the brits did not know how to build something to last when these were made. disaster. my father bought 2 356's and a 912, to rebuild one clean 356. it was a labor of love but in the end resulted in a very nice car. if you are not intereste in total originality, then you can play around with these cars and really get them running great. for example, we dropped in the 912 engine/drivetrain (added hp), put uprated suspension elements in, newer rims/tires (wide), lowered it etc. it ran great and was a lot of fun. if i had it to do over again, i would try to find a 356 cabrio, rip it apart and rebuild using uprated everything, to end up with a well handling 150hp daily driver with some cache. be sure to completely strip and treat all metal, these things rust like crazy cause they ahev all sorts of hidden ways for the water to get in and not get out. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 278 Registered: 4-2003 |
Dale, My research this last week seems to indicate the same thing. Though I have to say that I find those MGA's pretty cool. If I had my pick it seems like the project car to have given my criteria would be a 356, preferably a cab. I think I'll keep my eye out for one of those, and paint it black when I'm done. But the project car may be on hold for a little bit. Gotta to put an exhaust on the 348 and get some wheel spacers. This is very important.  Looks like I might need a bigger garage tood. when I build my own house it's going to have to have at least a four if not five car garage with a lift. | ||
| Dale W Spradling (Drtax)
New member Username: Drtax Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2003 |
Vincent, as someone who has restored a number of brit bikes over the years, my best advice is DON'T! There is no doubt that British car and motorcycles are sexy, make the right sounds. But no amount of sizzle will make up for the fact that the Brits built (and probably still do) crappy cars. Trust me on this one, restoring a British car or motorcycle will break you heart (and bank account) again and again. Want an example? The slides in my 70 Triumph Bonniville are zinc. And so is the body of the carb. Guess what happens when you run zinc on zine? They bond together is what happens. Even worse, this tends to happen at WFT as you are approaching an intersection. My advice is to stick with the Germans or Japenese or good old Detroit iron. There is a reason that the Brits went out of bidness, and it wasn't due to socialistic workers. Heck, anybody who eats blood pudding deserves to go broke, ha! Dale | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 248 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks Jordan, I think that is exactly the kind of car I am looking for. Not pretty but with a lot of potential, and possibly well taken care of before being neglected. I think that I am going to keep an eye out and get a feel for what's out there as far as MGA's and 356's are concerned. Both of those cars seem to stir a little something. If anyone sees anything that looks like it might be interesting, please keep me posted. And when or if I see anything I'll let you know. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 967 Registered: 12-2002 |
Here are a few nice MGAs http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2414410308&category=6314 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2413783720&category=6314 | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 966 Registered: 12-2002 |
Well the 356 Im thinking of is a bit out of your price range and it needs a lot of work...Its going for 10k at www.europeancollectibles.com I think an MGA would be fun and they arent hard to find in various conditions. Ebay has a whole bunch and even a few other MGs that could use restoration. Once restored they would be a blast to cruise around in the summer sun. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 247 Registered: 4-2003 |
Allright, Thanks for all the input. I'm definitely leaning in the 356 direction. Though the MGA has a certain appeal as well. I think that as a first project it seems very doable. Then perhaps I'll tackle something a little more ambitious (read more $$$) I'm thinking that I should try and find a convertible. What do you think? If you guys run across anything let me know. | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 800 Registered: 11-2001 |
The MGB Roadsters are fun to tinker on and drive. Very inexpensive to maintain, and parts are available everywhere. As with most British cars of that vintage, I'd be on the look-out for rust. There are many fully restored MG's out there in the low $teen's. Extremely easy to work on (like the early VW Bugs) too. These cars have that "classic" look that the general public seems to enjoy. There are two basic categories of MGB's...the early model (up to around '74) chrome bumper model, and the later (up to '80) rubber bumper with overdrive tranny. The last year also had a Ltd. version (with special badging etc.). These cars can be modified performance-wise, and even raced. Another fun car is the Porsche 944 (turbo or non). I prefer the 85.5 or later years, with the newer dash design, etc. These cars are very well balanced, a blast to drive, and rather inexpensive to maintain as far as Porsche's go. Parts are readily available from sources all over, including E-bay and the dealer. Rust is not a real problem on these cars as they were dipped at the factory. A showroom paint job (with new rubber seals and weatherstripping) will run you around $2k to $3k in case you need one. They are easily modified too, if you're into more HP, better handling, or want to get into SCCA racing. Either one of these cars can easily be found within your initial budget criteria of $3k - $7k. Then restoration will not be that terribly expensive in the long run, depending of course on how extensive you wish to get. | ||
| Jason Williams (Pristines4)
Member Username: Pristines4 Post Number: 268 Registered: 12-2002 |
My father and I are rebuilding a '71 Triumph TR6. It was a cheap car, runs well, and the parts don't cost much either. That's always a possibility. Jason- | ||
| Jens Haller (Jh280774)
Member Username: Jh280774 Post Number: 573 Registered: 9-2001 |
Vincent, I would go for a beat up Porsche 911 or 356. Great, great cars and much fun to drive if redone properly. Parts are not too expensive and can perhaps aslo be bought at salvage dealers etc. If you got more time than just one summer and you are willing to pay much more for spare parts I would go for a 308 GT4! Man, I would really like to do something like that, too! If you would live somewhere near me in Germany I would definitely help you. Have no clue about car repairs etc. and am always annoyed by dealership prices  Nevertheless, wish you all the best for your project! Con saluti cordialissimi, Jens Haller | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 392 Registered: 11-2002 |
Alfa Romeo or Porsche! They both have a good selection if you're looking for beat up cars. I admire what you're trying to do. It's something I've always wanted to do as well, and my decisions have almost always boiled down to these two. Cheers | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 915 Registered: 9-2001 |
To get an idea for your budget, here's some my picks. Porsche 914/6 VW Carmen Ghia MGBGT BMW 2002 Datsun 240Z My 1964 Chevy C-10 stepside {hint,hint} | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Junior Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 135 Registered: 2-2003 |
If like classic Ferraris.... You absolutely will not be dissapointed by restoring an pre 74 twin cam Alfa Spider or GTV; preferebly an earlier with carburetors or that can be easily converted to twin Webers. Of course good training for re-doing a 308 engine would be a Fiat Spider twincam (similar belts, valve adjustment and down draft carbs) For both: Terrific fun Pretty good parts availability Terrific fun Straightforward to work on Terrific fun Not too expensive Not that I am biased...... I've done two Alfas. best rt | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 242 Registered: 4-2003 |
I've begun to look around, following the suggestions. So far the top running cars, in no particular order: MGA MGB 356 of course GT4 Jordan, send me the link, I'd like to look into it. I'm not planning this for a few months but I'd like to start looking. Jim, where can you get a gt4 for 6k? thanks keep the cars coming, and don't keep any opinions to yourself. This could be a lot of fun! | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 318 Registered: 5-2002 |
How about a chrome bumper MGB. Parts are relatively cheap and readily available and they are also pretty basic to work on. | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 408 Registered: 1-2003 |
First generation Camaro convertible. There's an unlimited supply of parts and info on those cars. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
Member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 955 Registered: 12-2002 |
A GT4, or an old British car like an 59' MGA or something. They have an old Porsche 356 that needs a full restoration at a dealership I know down in Newport Beach. I can give you the link if you want. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1193 Registered: 7-2002 |
there are some GT4 ferraris out there for around $6K. | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
Member Username: Peters Post Number: 367 Registered: 1-2003 |
Think about an old 240, 260 or 280Z. Restored are a hot ticket in China as an export. | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Junior Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 232 Registered: 4-2003 |
I need some ideas!!! I'm thinking about purchasing a project car: one preferably which does not run or does not run well. In the past I've always learned by doing, but this time I'm thinking that dropping the engine out of the Ferrari may warrant a little practice. Plus it would be a fun summer project. Here's some things I'm looking for: Used car which runs not so well that can be had for 3 to 7k. Parts availabity (don't want to be waiting weeks for stuff) originality: It's gotta be cool! Nothing is like an F-car but something with OHC would be good. What fits this profile, or comes close??? I'll settle for 3 out of 4 but originality has to be one of the three. |