| Author | Message | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 126 Registered: 3-2002 |
Bravo to President Bush. He is not just a junior Admiral coming on board having tea and inspecting sailors. He is the President in a combat zone. I think it motivated the flyboys and sailors. Only problem is next time he can put aside the S-3 and grab an F-14 or F-18. God Bless America ! AND carry a Big Stick. Ralph | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1549 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dave: He may be right. I went through a similar circumstance in the 60s. I'd have left if they'd let me, and so would have most of the guys I served with. Everybody I served with had no, and I mean no, respect for those who gave the orders. Perhaps things are different now, but Randall's comments seem to lead me to believe differently. I was enlisted, and they are different from the officer corps. Art | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 415 Registered: 2-2003 |
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If it was only a PR opportunity, so what. Just once, they really might mean well and give you a chance to make bigger difference besides putting on the uniform each day and rendering a sharp salute. For example: I remember having breakfast with our Command CMSgt and his two (uniformed) assistants one time in England. It may have been PR for him for his own purposes, but they allowed a question/answer session. I thought, ok, I'll make the best of this dog and pony. The local base is run by the local refuelling Wing and the Navy HQ for Europe. They changed the awards criteria where job performance in primary duty only counts for 20% of the whole. Yet, for your EPRs (enlisted performance reports), job performance in your primary duty or duties counts for at least 40% of the rating. I said we're here to do a job first and foremost, why the double standard, the message this is sending to the enlisted troops, and I know many in my Squadron disagree with the criteria. He said he would look into it. I received a call from the "other side" from a female CMSgt saying I was wrong and what I based this on. So, I sent them a copy of the awards criteria and they ended up eating crow. You can make positive things come out of such a meeting, maybe not directly, but you better believe while he was there, the President listened at least a little bit to what your CO had to say. Sunny | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 426 Registered: 1-2003 |
Thanks, you too. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1483 Registered: 1-2002 |
Randall, I will concede part of your point. I remember when the 1st Pres. Bush's Chief of Staff, Sununu, had to resign because he was abusing his Marine helicopter priveleges...what an a$$clown! As for your last sentence: I may not know more that anyone else here...but I have not been a landlubber all my life either. If you are interested in learning what I mean, you can private message me. I am not prone to discussing too much of my life in a public forum. Oh, and have a great weekend!!  | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 424 Registered: 1-2003 |
Sorry if you thought I was just pinning it on him. A lot of people do it. Senior people on shore duty go out for a few days to get sea pay. Politicians (Senators/Presidents/who ever) go out there to get in the news and score votes. The crew usually doesn't want the visit, because they know who it's really for. They also know all the work that will occur pre-visit. But I suppose you know more than me, because of your extensive time on ships? | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1479 Registered: 1-2002 |
Randall, can it. Is that all you've got? I am ROTFLMMFAO at your pathetic desperation to come up with something--anything!--negative to pin on Mr. Bush. Really, is that ALL you've got??? As for better troop pay and more rest periods, he has proposed both--and that's a FACT. But Congress controls appropriations, my friend. Maybe they didn't teach you that in school, but it's true. DES, you should have quit after saying this: "i'm not in the military, so i can't say anything, either way; i'd just be another assclown with an opinion..." | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 666 Registered: 7-2001 |
How would you know that he is not concerned about the troops DES??!! He is an awesome CIC. I suppose Gore would be better ha? What has Bush done that was so bad.....liberate Iraq from a terrible dictator....oh boy shame on him! How about the way he took care of the a$$ clowns in Afghanistan ......shame on him again! And don't EVEN say anything about the economy because that was on it's way down when he took office. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 664 Registered: 7-2001 |
How would you know that he is not concerned about the troops DES??!! He is an awesome CIF. I suppose Gore would be better ha? What has Bush done that was so bad.....liberate Iraq from a terrible dictator....oh boy shame on him! How about the way he took care of the a$$ clowns in Afghanistan ......shame on him again! And don't EVEN say anything about the economy because that was on it's way down when he took office. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 414 Registered: 2-2003 |
Rather then do it because its our job and to be proud of such a visit, we're left with, "whats in it for me." I really was not prepared for how many people in the service look out for themselves first. Its expected of politicians, right? In the corporate world, same thing. But for those in uniform, its a damn shame. One step further, we're required to cover our own asses because its rare those above us value ours above theirs. Randall, didn't you join for education benefits or am I thinking about someone else? If any politician or someone with influence really wants to help the troops, make it so those in Uniform don't pay taxes. And make sure the troops can use their vacation benefits; I never had vacation/time off benefits so good when I was in the service. 30 days/yr (weekends count), and more bonus family days, holidays, and half-days during no deployment periods once or twice a month then I will ever see again. So when the First Lady wants to visit and bring her French poodle, do it, because its your job, and be proud. Too much "empowerment" going on in the service and not enough "knuckle sandwiches." Sunny P.S. when I was in the service and I met or found someone who valued others before themselves, those people you follow without question and makes it easier to tolerate the rest who are there to serve as an alterior motive. And, you can find these people in high places. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3916 Registered: 8-2002 |
i'm not in the military, so i can't say anything, either way; i'd just be another assclown with an opinion... ...but what Randall is saying does seem more plausible... Its always about the politicians and their own, personal gain; Bush doesn't give a crap about the troops; he's just concerned with money & power... | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 420 Registered: 1-2003 |
If he really cared about the 10 month deployment, maybe he should have given some gratitude that didn't require the crew to work more. How about a policy of added pay for deployed time past 6 months? How about authorizing them a longer stand down period? How about authorizing a return at 100% power? These are the questions crews always ask. Instead of showing appreciation, these asses show up and make the crews life worse for a week and get personal gains out of it. And then they try to pretend they did it for the crew. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1478 Registered: 1-2002 |
And, SO FREAKING WHAT, Randall????????? He is the Commander in Chief. What is your problem with that? Whether he be Dem. or Rep., it doesn;t matter: visiting troops returning from a 10 month combat engagement is BEYOND REPROACH, Randall. Shame on you for suggesting otherwise, Navy man. And if the US PREsident can (a) greet the troops; (b) show his gratitude the the gratitude of the nation for their sacrifices; (c) address the nation from their presence; AND (d) get some positive PR, so what? I would really like to know what problem you have with it--really. Or is it that you are still p!ssed that the US didn't get beaten by Iraq, and that the Dems are once again flailing at windmills & grasping at vanishing straws? | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 418 Registered: 1-2003 |
Whatever you say. I spent over 5 years on a sub, and I know how much people like to see "guests" onboard. They're they to benefit themselves first, and the crew second. He could have flown in on a helicopter un-announced and without tons of cameras there to welcome him. It was a well organized photo-op. | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 412 Registered: 2-2003 |
When the Defense Secretary, the head of the JCS, CSAF and CMSAF along with the Gen. Shoomaker (head of USSOCOM at the time) came to Brindisi, it was to thank us in person for the job we were doing during the Kosovo campaign. I will always remember a barked out order to a co-worker and friend of mine to setup a secure DSN line into the conference room immediately so the President could call and thank the crew, staff, and support personnel who brought our pilots out of the line of fire. Its PR anyway you slice it, internal or external. Its not everyday we're thrown a bone. Sunny | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1477 Registered: 1-2002 |
You are 100% wrong-o about that, desk jockey. | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 416 Registered: 1-2003 |
"about the President honoring troops who have been in combat for 10 months" It was all about a photo-op. The crews know it. Given the choice between returning home 1 hour early or having the Pres. onboard, majority will choose going home. No one likes the circus trick that have to be done for a "guest". The "guests" always say they're there to show gratitude, to give thanks. But there is always something else, added pay or political gains- and that's the real reason they are there. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1475 Registered: 1-2002 |
Arlie, great point. It is ALL the Democrats have! They cannot seem to make any headway on Bush in th epolls (so far) and they have no original ideas to put forth that do not involve more tax & spend, so all they have is b!tching about the President honoring troops who have been in combat for 10 months. Who, I might add, were probably totally honored to have the CinC come aboard! And Robert Byrd?? Perhaps someone should ask him about where he keeps his KKK hood & robe. What a scumbag hypocrite! | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 662 Registered: 7-2001 |
Democrats= Take from the people with ambition and drive and give to the lazy. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3910 Registered: 8-2002 |
Robin - LMAO...! | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 413 Registered: 1-2003 |
Although it's a rather silly complaint, a lot of times the crews of ships make that same complaint. Anytime an important "guest" comes aboard a ship or sub there's typically tons of cleaning, painting and "dog and pony show" stuff that the crew get to do. There's a lot of times people use these ships for career purposes or financial gains, it's just that this time the complaints made it to the press. | ||
| Robin Overcash (Robin)
Junior Member Username: Robin Post Number: 71 Registered: 1-2003 |
It was the exact same thing during the last administration. And the one before that, and the one before that... Those without the power will whine and moan about what those with the power do. Facts of life. Regardless of which party is in power, the other side will whine about everything. Republicans whined about Clinton making expensive flights all over the world, and now the Democrats are whining about Bush making an expensive carrier landing to do his speech. Democrats whined when the Republican congress blocked judicial nominations. Today, Bush whined that Democrats are blocking his judicial nominations. Right now, you're whining about Democrats whining, and I'm whining about you whining about Democrats whining. There's a lot of whining going on. It's called politics... -R | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Advanced Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 3906 Registered: 8-2002 |
When the conservatives stop squandering dollar after dollar on petty, useless bullsh!t... Not that i'm siding with the liberals, i could never associate myself with any political party, but i'm just saying... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1110 Registered: 5-2002 |
Has everyone been following the latest liberal hogwash concerning GW's flight and speech from the aircraft carrier Lincoln? The whining liberals who still can't accept the fact that Bill and Al are out the door have starting bellyaching about the "cost" of GW's trip out to the aircraft carrier. And did you see the hypocrit that was leading the pack of whining, whimpering dogs? The King of Pork Barrel Politics himself, Senator Byrd of West Virginia. Talk about the Hog calling the kettle "too full"!!!! When will these desperate, pathetic, bellyaching whiners give it a rest? |