| Author | Message | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1692 Registered: 6-2001 |
Whart: Read Brock's book: Blinded by the Right. Much of what's you said isn't true and he explains why it was used, and by who. It was on the best seller's list, but by now, may be on the discount rack. Art | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1100 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hillary not running for office? Surely you jest, Arthur. Its my impression that she is always "running." She is undoubtedly very smart, but, unlike her hubby, who was sincere to a fault (and thus you couldn't believe a word), she strikes me as in it for her, only. She laid real low during 9/11, was caught snickering on TV during Bush's first TV speech thereafter, and if you are from NY, you know she isn't here out of her desire to help the average New Yorker. I'll leave all the stuff she did when her hubster was leaving his fingerprints all over the Whitehouse furniture for another day. (Oh, wait a minute, i think they boosted the furniture, too. OH, yeah, and the note from Vince Foster, and the records of the Rose law firm, and travelgate, and well, i doubt she's a lesbian. That would mean she'd have to care for someone else... | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1674 Registered: 6-2001 |
Whart: You're probably right about the lack of agenda, but having said that, the people in office still have to perform. I've always kept in the back of my head a discussion between a machinest and a mechanic: machinest: you can't machine that area, the metals too hard, and the area too small to get a tool into it. Mechanic: why not just file it down, takes about 2 seconds. Actual discussion over how you cut dogs on a specially built transmission for a Ducati. By the way, the mechanic was right, it worked. What this shows is that there are ways to get things done, and there are ways to explain why you can't do something. Performance is an absolute scale, excuses aside. My point is there has been a lack of performance, a lot of excuses. As for Hilary: she's not running for anything. Didn't hold office when Bill was in office. What's the issue about her, other than she's probably too smart for her own good? (literally, she was number 1 in her law school class, Bill was 5th in that same class) Art | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1602 Registered: 1-2002 |
Art, which part of this is in any way related to Mr. Bush? As I indicated when I posted the FACT above: the market began tanking in March 2000. Now who was president then, and for the next 10 months thereafter, Art? 'Nuff said. Perhaps you should take Econ 101, in order to learn about scam-like bubble economies and the FACT economic cycles. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1088 Registered: 12-2001 |
I don't know that anybody could get into a position of power without being somewhat corrupt, but you like to think that they will use that power for some greater good. The best thing people can say about the Clinton years is that they made money, and that times were relatively trouble free. But our current economic woes have little to do with what Clinton did, or what Bush has failed to do. The great economic boom of the 90's was based largely on inflated stock values and an even more fantastic belief in the .com revolution (which turned out to be a good way to sell alot of computer stuff, but that's about it). It was faltering while Clinton was still in office. The thing that troubles me most about the Clinton years is the mistaken belief that we had no real enemies, that you could negotiate with terorrists and that everything was a matter of "spin" and p r calculation. We live in a different time, now, since 9/11. I suppose, by comparison, Bush seems small minded and rigid compared to Clinton, but the test of grace, as they say, comes not when one is winning, but when one is losing. Disagree with Bush, on principle, but don't believe he makes decisions based on what will give him the most comfort or popularity. I wonder how much petty partisan bickering really reflects the fact that our officials don't have good answers for alot of today's problems. Its easier to carp about the other guy's strategy when you don't have one of your own. Frankly, i think Hillary is far scarier than Bill. She lacks his personal charm, and seems far less people savvy, two attributes which were both Bill's great strengths and weaknesses (ie he could tell anybody what they wanted to hear, and they'd believe him). | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1673 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dave: This economy sucks! Home foreclosures are up by 50%, bankruptcies are up, I don't know the percentage, consumer confidence is down, industrial production is down, industrial useage is down. When Bush came into office, the market was above 10k now bouncing between 7500 and 8500, with little or no prospects of getting better. A close to home evaluation is that use Ferraris are now drastly reduced in price, reason: bad economy. Number one issue for voters: economy. Why: its not doing well. Most of us had stock holdings, and believe it or not, those have gone into the toilet with this administration. Performance counts. This administration hasn't performed. Period. Art | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1136 Registered: 5-2002 |
"Compare that to day, read the paper take a long hard look at what we've become. The reason the right wing keeps attacking him is to deflect against what they've done to our country." "There is no substitute for results." So what are the results of this so called "bad" economy? If it is so bad, how come many people that I know are as happy as clams when it comes to the LOW, LOW interest rates that they are getting on new home purchases, refinancing rates, etc. They are saving THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars with the current low interest rates. Not to mention the ZERO interest rates on new car purchases. About time the little guy got some of the financial gravy instead of it all going into the banker's pockets as 12 percent interest rates. If you've got a job, the economy is pretty good. The exact same thing could have been said 5 years ago, 15 years ago, or in 1932. For every person having a bad time, there is another enjoying a prosperous time. The Dubbya hating whiners never want to admit that. Their definition of a bad economy is when their banker buddies can't get away with 12 percent interest gouging. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1599 Registered: 1-2002 |
Art, what results? A stock market bubble that popped in March 2000, while Clinton was still president? Funny, but the Dems conveniently miss that FACT every time they try to blame the downside of a normal boom/bust end-of-bubble economic cycle on Bush. So, what results? The only result I see is Clinton's ostrich-like attitued towards all of the Al Queda terrorism on his watch. Oh, that & his impeachment for perjury. Surely, as an attorney, you would pursue perjury charges if a witness you deposed lied under oath? And surely you would resist defense motions to dismiss because said witness didn't really lie about anything "serious"? | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 392 Registered: 8-2002 |
Gosh, it was only a joke.......such a serious crowd. Didn't mean to start such serious debates........ | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1669 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dave: Old argument about smart thief, incompetent honest guy. Smart thief will always leave money, honest incompetent will lose it all. I don't care about the morals, I'm concerned with results. An example: Lincoln (a repub) when asked to fire Jackson because of his morals (drinking, etc.): send all the other generals the same brand. There is no substitute for results. Art | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1590 Registered: 1-2002 |
Art, I am 41, married just under 13 years, and I will take a lie detector test anytime, anywhere, with anyone present, including my wife. Any more inane questions? Stop apologizing for the former perjuror in chief. He was (and doubtlessly still is) a total scumbag who was smart enough to keep Greenspan & to stay the heck out of the way when the internet bubble got in gear. His wife is nearly as bad, but so far has not been caught. I think it is hilarious that you keep trying to use moral relativism to justify & excuse the horrid deeds of an impeached a$$clown who should have been also indicted for sexual harassment. Keep putting lipstick on that pig, Art! We all know that, had Slick Willy been a Republican, you would would be a whole lot less forgiving.....and would probably have insisted on nothin gless than life in prison.   | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 693 Registered: 7-2001 |
Art I do agree with many of your points (believe it or not!), I am mostly pissed about the ABUSERS. We will have to agree to disagree on the Reps being responsible for the current economic situation. I do also agree that Reps do favors for their friends in big business, but on the other hand Dems do favors for their buddies too (labor unions, environmental folk, etc). This will always go on regardless of who's in power. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 136 Registered: 2-2003 |
Wow, I had this big response all prepared and I realized that there was really no point. You could drown Art in "facts" over how wrong he really is and he would still never admit you were right. He's an attorny, lives in SF, drives a $100K car and appearantly owns a twin engined airplane and were supposed to believe you live in the "real world". I would expect someone who actually has a law degree to use something better than the usual pathetic democratic sound bites over bashing the president. Is this all the dems. have left? You and your liberal buddies are in big trouble come election time. The democrats lost in '02 b/c they had no issues to stand on. They still don't. Oh, horror gasp, shock....the conservatives have and adjenda. And here we thought the democrats were simple minded innocent people who just want peace and wealth redistribution. EDIT: Ok I wrote above before I read your last post. Now you're making more sence. JRV. Haliburton won the Military contracts in a competative bid in 2001 (before 9/11). And I gotta say, WHO CARES!! Weather its Haliburton, Bectel or some other HUGE company, someone is making money off this and there would be accusations either way. As far as the piggy back contracts they've gotten, that's how business works in the private sector every day. It's usually cheaper, and faster to just give the guy who's already standing there doing other work. That's how my company makes money all the time. (Not saying there weren't any behind the scenes stuff, but this happens all the day in every government presidency since the beginning). | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1666 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jerry: I'm suggesting that our society is set up with way because it has to be. Because of the factors I've talked about, you will always have welfare, you will always have the upper end paying the freight in taxes. If you look at the break down of government expenditures, about 80 to 90% of the dollars used by the government is in what are called entitlements, i.e., medical assistance for those who can't afford them, relief for those who are disabled, etc. While I may disagree upon the entry to those categories, I think that the guy who is a quad, without assets, needs to be taken care of. The 60 year old, whose worked his entire life in a factory that has been moved to a lower wage country, can't be left to starve. Those sorts of needs, have to be taken care of in our society. I strongly agree that those who abuse the system should be punished and made to repay. From what I've seen, that number is very, very small as a percentage, but because of the size of the system, large in absolute dollars. If that makes me a "liberal" then so be it, there is nothing wrong with my views about how the world should be run, in my opinion. Lastly, given that we are cutting aid to our schools, cutting the federal aid for police, and reducing the aid to the local governments for many things, why in the world would we reduce the taxes on the top 1% of the earners? Given their earnings, they certainly don't need the money. If the tax cut is to be used to stimulate the economy, how about some direct cuts to provide that assistance? Investment tax credit would immediately stimulate production and purchase of equipment for business, but I've heard nothing about that. How about an energy credit, put in energy saving devices, get a substantial credit, stimlulates the production, and helps us with our dependancy upon foreign oil. Nothing is being done in that area. What is being done is that certain companies are getting special treatment to drastically reduce their tax liability because they are friends with those in power. Money = Power. Yes, the left does it too. However, I am more closely aligned with their goals, but I do understand that they also play the same game. I might have voted for McCain had the republicans nominated him, but they weren't honest enough in my humble opinon to have done that. Art | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 692 Registered: 7-2001 |
I agree 100% JRV. There are many folks that fit into that category. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1480 Registered: 11-2002 |
and as if by magic Haliburton gets a Multi-Billion Dollar contract to rebuild Irag even before the bombs stopped dropping...wonder if Cheney cashed that commish check yet? bet it's a doozy! money grab season is in full swing, those on welfare just need to pray there's some $$$$ left when the grab is over! | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1479 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>I'm against the opportunists that use assistance to get their lazy asses through life.<< Can Ken Lay & Jefferey Skilling expect a knock on their door soon???????? heck and Dubbya for matter...he was pretty much a financial failure in life until his dad the CIA Chief/X-Pres and the Skull & Bones Club came to his rescue... talk about lazy worthless fucks prospering off the backs of others... | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 691 Registered: 7-2001 |
No, I have plenty of rational thought. To cite a specific book Art, no I can't because I don't read books on such topics. I will go to Barnes & Noble tonight and find one if it means that much to you. NEWSFLASH....just because it's in print does not make it true Art, I hate to break it to you. What do you mean that "nothing changes"? Of course there will still be public assistance and welfare, there always will and I'm not against that. I'm against the opportunists that use assistance to get their lazy asses through life. Also, there will always be low paying jobs Art, how could those possibly be eliminated? I love it when you lefties bring up "tax cuts for the wealthiest" Guess what....I forget the exact figures but it is something like the wealthiest 10% pay over 50% of the taxes in this country, so why NOT give the break to them? They've earned it. Globilization: are you saying that is the fault of the Republicans? Are you suggesting raising the minimum wage for these folks? I don't know where you are going with this. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1478 Registered: 11-2002 |
Anyone care to discuss how apple pie and true blue the "Skull & Bones Club" is ? You know, the club our President is a member of. Somehow it seems different than the Boy Scouts!! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1655 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jerry: If there are such books, let me know about them. Tell me about one book where the author was part of the enterprise, who has attacked the ethics and morality? Just one Jerry? You're still missed the point: what do we do about the working poor? Because of globilization, we've driven down the down end of our society, they can't survive on what they make, yet we need those jobs. The cooks, the janitors, etc. The ditribe from the right, jusst doesn't seem to take this into account. Better with the sound bites, not reality. I have a very simple question: if your philosphy is so great, why is it that whenever you get a conservative President, congress, etc. nothing changes, other than tax decreases for the upper end of society? Welfare continues, assistance continues, why is that? Could it be that they play the masses to get votes so that they can reduce taxes for their pals? While the unwashed continue to be ideologues? I love the name calling without rational thought, makes a great argument. Art | ||
| John A (Jarends)
Junior Member Username: Jarends Post Number: 206 Registered: 7-2001 |
Hey guys, don't bother arty, his train left (no pun intended) the tracks awhile ago. Just hope the country survive them. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 690 Registered: 7-2001 |
Art is really good at saying "read this or read that". You don't think that there are books out there with the opposite view, with cited details and facts? You bleeding hearts make me puke! As far as young women with kids goes, ya so what! I'll give them some help when they get sterilized to stop the cycle of having more kids to get more welfare and ADC. What particular group is getting the money is irrelevant. No, I don't want to see kids starve because they have BIG LOSERS for parents, but stop giving these people incentive to have more kids. MY opinion is stupid ha? Why would you have to say that? Everyone's got an opinion and are entitled to it as you are yours. I'll tell you what tough guy, why don't you pay a visit to Michigan and we'll see who's stupid you ambulance chasing moron. Randall, I suggest you get YOUR facts straight before you open your pie hole as well. Ask any REPUTABLE economist about when things started to go south, then report back to me at 0-600! | ||
| Sunny Garofalo (Jaguarxj6)
Member Username: Jaguarxj6 Post Number: 473 Registered: 2-2003 |
Art, I guess you believe in what you read then. So, rather then telling someone their wrong because someone else said (or wrote) so that you give credibility to, give us some facts you keep telling us to check out so I can take off my rubber boots because the bullshit is starting to get thick. You obviously know something about the economy we don't, so educate us. In more cases then not, its laziness or they can't keep their pants on and are getting rewarded for it. They might come from a horrible education like me, have a bad work ethic, or could be just starting out in good 'ole America. Can't keep your pants on? Oh no! My bleeding heart! •••• 'em, I say! How much money ends up going towards things they really need? What they should do (I'm just throwing this out) is have the benefits end just like unemployment after six months with some serious qualifications to qualify again, especially back to back or anytime soon. You know what they say about opinions, and thats all it is until you prove it otherwise. Sunny | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 277 Registered: 12-2001 |
Lying is not the same as perjury. You know this, but because its Clinton you excuse it. That you took such issue with Fred's post (which was a JOKE) just shows that its the Clinton people who are still hanging on. Maybe you should post about how Bush didn't even win the election. | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 476 Registered: 1-2003 |
About the economy being on the way down. Where do you get this idea? When Bush took over things were still going good. In fact they were so good that part of the budget surplus was given back; that big tax-money giveaway that Bush did. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1650 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jerry W: Great commentary. Check your facts. Most of those on welfare are young woman with kids. I support not letting those kids starve. I support not letting those kids go back into the cycle of unwed mothers and unwanted preganacies. Your attitude about I'm going to take mine now, is exactly what is perputating this cycle. Same deal with medical care: don't provide preventive care, watch the cost soar. Stupid is what I call your opinion, it ultimately costs more in the long run. As to the economy on the way down, BS. Go back and look at the numbers. Bush, et al screwed us up, and will continue to make matters worse. Problem with the conservatives such as your self, you're into sound bites, not reality. Articulate incompetents are what got us into this, and we won't get out until their replaced. I suggest you read a little about the conservate movement from those who've left the cause. try Bock, blinded by the Right, for starters. Seems they paid people to lie. I've yet to see a conservate in the know, take him on about the facts he states in his book. Check out Susan McDowell's book, she has a bit to say about the hidden agenda. After you're though reading those let me know about your opinion. I'm certainly into keeping what I make. I also understand that this is a team effort, and we have to pay for the infra structure. If we insist upon paying those at the bottom end not enough to survive, we have to expect the society to make up the difference. By the way, most of the welfare is paid to those who work, and who don't make enough to survive. Check out the facts. Art | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 689 Registered: 7-2001 |
Ya whatever Art. The economy was on it's way downhill before George W took office. It's easy for the bleeding heart liberals to blame the right. If you are so upset with the way the country is being run, why don't YOU run for office? Personally I'm a Republican because I believe in people getting rewarded for their hard work and sweat equity. If Dems had their way they'd take from me even more than they do now and give it to the lazy and undeserving. I'm not saying some people don't need help on occasion but many are abusing the system and the dems just want to give them more. How about this, being overweight is grounds for receiving public assistance because they are too f***ing fat to work. I suppose you support that too. Labor unions: I'll take you through a big 3 plant here in Michigan where we will witness a union with so much power, you cannot plug in a lamp because you will be taking some work away from a union loser......and if they are on break or lunch, guess what....you wait, for hours sometimes. That's efficient isn't it? Unions as you know are strong allies of the dems. I'm a Republican and not afraid to shout it from the rooftop. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1639 Registered: 6-2001 |
Eric: I live in the real world. People, regardless of their position lie. Anybody who says they don't is lying. We've all told untruths, and we'll continue to do so, even if its something like you look great, when the reality is that they don't. Don't get moralist on me. My point is that he's been gone for 2 1/2 years, when he was President, our stature was great in the world, the economy was great, we were doing good. Compare that to day, read the paper take a long hard look at what we've become. The reason the right wing keeps attacking him is to deflect against what they've done to our country. To be sure, they've had a little help, but overall, they have responsibility for our current condition. This Clinton basing is a wag the dog attempt at getting out attention from their $hit poor performance. Art | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 273 Registered: 12-2001 |
"Anybody here online, over 40, married for more than 10 years, willing to take a polygraph? Willing to let the wife sit in? My bet is not." Are you serious? As an attorney you of all people should expect that an attorney who is the president of the united states, and thus the chief law enforcement officer, should tell the truth when under oath. BTW, I voted for the guy so I'm not part of the vast right-wing conspiracy | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1638 Registered: 6-2001 |
jvr: I've made a fortune off of them, for just that. Ever heard of Weeks vs. Baker & McKenzie. I worked on that one. Art | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1463 Registered: 11-2002 |
<<<I wonder how many corporate boards would tolerate their CEOs engaging in "lawsuit tempting" activities behind closed doors with their lower level employees? << You're joking ...right??? Been hiding in a Cave since Y2K ???? Most CEO's & Boards are to busy stealing in the money grab to worry about bj's, but I'm sure they still make time to prey on the staff just like they prey on investors !!!! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1637 Registered: 6-2001 |
Anybody here online, over 40, married for more than 10 years, willing to take a polygraph? Willing to let the wife sit in? My bet is not. Art | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 905 Registered: 10-2001 |
And he gets paid around 100 000$ per conference .Not bad as an emergency job .. | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 271 Registered: 12-2001 |
Yep, he does lots of conferences and speeches-because his license to practice law was suspended for five years because of statements made under oath that weren't true. | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 270 Registered: 12-2001 |
Double post | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1130 Registered: 5-2002 |
I think his shadow was over Monica. I wonder how many corporate boards would tolerate their CEOs engaging in "lawsuit tempting" activities behind closed doors with their lower level employees? I guess it's good to be the King. (King of the trailer park crowd, that is.) | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1620 Registered: 6-2001 |
Bottom line: He was so successful, the conservatives can't let it go. He compared too well with what we've got now. He's been gone from office for 2 1/2 years guys, what's the matter, his shadow still over you? Art | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 903 Registered: 10-2001 |
Im sure ur husband makes a good deal of money from his conferences all aoound the world.. | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 388 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dear Abby: My husband is a liar and a cheat. He has cheated on me from the beginning. When I confront him, he denies everything. What's worse is everyone knows he cheats on me. It is so humiliating! Also, since he lost his job two years ago, he hasn't even looked for a new one. All he does is sit around the living room in his underwear and watch TV while I work to pay the bills. And since our daughter went away to college he doesn't even pretend to like me. He keeps calling me a lesbian. What should I do? Signed, Clueless Dear Clueless: Dump him. You're a New York senator now. You don't need him anymore > |