| Author | Message | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 906 Registered: 3-2002 |
Tim, I recently spoke with our cable company about that. I have a hi-def TV, but standard cable. His opinion was that, besides expanded menus, the picture difference wasn't worth the extra money. As for hi-def broadcasts, not enough channels are broadcasting to make that worthwhile, either. More are coming soon, I was promised. There was a settlement recently that will allow the signal to be sent in hi-def through the digital cable lines, so the HDTV-ready TVs won't need the additional converter. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3077 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mike, I see most TV's in best buy or circuit city that say "Hi-definition compatible", then you have to go and buy an $800 hi-def reciever to actually get hi-definition TV. I always thought that you could get hi-def through regular cable, but it seems that is not the case. what about digital cable? | ||
| will h (Willh)
Junior Member Username: Willh Post Number: 59 Registered: 3-2003 |
where were you guys when i bought my system? this is great advice! mike b, that is exactly what buyers need to hear. and i'd never heard of a scaler ... what a moron ... sigh | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Junior Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 207 Registered: 12-2002 |
Tim, I've only ever seen a very few shows broadcast in true HiDef. The Sopranos comes to mind. Alot of sports seemingly are (like the Superbowl and even alot of the bigger games), but, remember, to get genuine HiDef, you need: 1) A high definition TV 2) A high definition receiver 3) A high definition channel 4) A high definition recording (or live broadcast) A lot of folks go and get digital cable or DirecTV, but without the set top box (or the special HiDef DirecTV dish), you're not getting HiDef. I'd say 90% of high definition stuff is being watched by people with OTA antennas. If Joe Blow has a HiDef TV and digital cable, and the ads state "this game is being broadcast in HIGH DEFINITION!", he ain't getting HiDef unless he's wathing it with an antenna through his set top box, or on a HighDef channel on DirecTV WITH the HighDef receiver dish (in addition to the regular dish if he wants to get his regular channels too) | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3076 Registered: 6-2001 |
I noticed that alot of prime time TV shows are broadcast in hi definition, as are some sports. | ||
| Mike B (Srt_mike)
Junior Member Username: Srt_mike Post Number: 206 Registered: 12-2002 |
Just wanted to chime in about the video source question. Some folks are recommending DirecTV or Dish over cable. That has some merit, but remember DirecTV, Dish Network, and Digital Cable ARE NOT HIGH DEFINITION. Many people equate digital cable or satellite with "high def" but it isn't. There is, what, 2 channels on DirecTV that are in HiDef and of those, how much stuff was filmed in HiDef format and how much is just broadcast in HiDef? Also, if you have a BIG TV, DirecTV will look pretty crappy. It's still better than OTA (antenna) or cable, but the MPEG encoding leaves artefacts on the screen that get more apparent as TV size goes up. My parents have a 27" pretty high quality tube and DirecTV looks great. On my Hitachi 43" in my bedroom it looks so-so. On my brothers 60+" Phillips in his living room it looks like ass. HiDef is an interesting concept that will never actually take off, and will be relegated to videophiles like some here. We can argue that one if y'all like  | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1139 Registered: 12-2001 |
Tim: in my experience, which may be a little dated, the big front projection systems only produce impressive results if the room light is controlled, the projector is capable of putting out significant light output (using a higher gain screen to compensate will only make the picture look washed out) and the source material is first rate. There is no point in watching TV on these things (i'm talking about something with a screen size that, measured on the diagonal, like most TVs are, is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10'). Short of really big money projectors, the best results i've seen were obtained with stacked projectors (you are looking at 60k dollars in projectors alone, without the cost of signal processing, sources, or audio), and then, only in a dark room. Its a waste of money to try to do this in a room with ambient light. The goal is to achieve a film like look, which requires not only a fairly high light output from the projector, but a toning down of the brightness, contrast, etc. which gives an artificial quality to the picture. Then, you also have to deal with video artifacts, which look worse when the picture is blown up to the size i'm talking about. Requires alot of attention to get this right, and when it does look right, you are looking at something which may, at its best, only approximate good film projection. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3074 Registered: 6-2001 |
Are these amazing TV's something that you see and then you say to yourself "wow, i cant believe what i was watching was crap."? I did watch a movie at someones house on a front projection a few years ago, but didnt notice anything special. Is the difference really that big? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1137 Registered: 12-2001 |
Doody, for a "village idiot," you know your ••••. Your emphasis on calibration is right on. Almost all consumer (and alot of the "monitor quality") TVs i have seen over the years are way too hot, and the whites are blue. I also think there have been huge advances in line doubling technology in the past few years; at one time, the only one to buy was the Faroudja (sp). My stuff has been sitting in boxes since i moved to my current house. I didn't realize how much my wife enjoyed the big video system (we only watched movies on it, first laserdisc, and then dvd) since other sources with a BIG screen looked pretty nasty. Still have all the Meridian control unit/processing/dvd stuff, had (and still have) an NEC industrial TV with some optimizing boards (this was the same tv that a couple of hi-end manufacturers used as their basic platform), used outboard Sony industrial video processing/line doubling, and ran all the mid/highs thru audio research tube amps, with a 150 tube monoblock for the center channel, big velodynes, front and rear, for woofs. It took a few weeks of tweaking to get the system right and eliminate the usual gremlins; over the 4 years it ran, it was virtually trouble free. At the same time, i get a huge kick out of the little "kitchen" system we currently have set up, with the Sharp lcd, a relatively inexpensive set of TEAC electronics and a package of Mirage speakers with powered woofer. The whole system was less than 5k US dollars and probably packs more bang for the dollar than the BIG system did, given the cost of the components, including excessive audio, i was using. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5019 Registered: 12-2000 |
Please call the number from their website, you can get to the site from the Sponsors page. His name is Chris Brody. | ||
| Erik (Teenferrarifan)
Junior Member Username: Teenferrarifan Post Number: 118 Registered: 2-2003 |
My dad just bought the sony 42 inch plasma tv with the tuner and the speakers built in for our house down the shore last year. It is the VEGA model if I remember correctly (I know nothing about tv's really). The picture is normal except for on a highdef channel. Don't use digital cable get a dish instead. We have comcast digital cable and you only have like 6 high def channels, But on those channels the 1080/60 resolution is awesome. My dad shopped around and for about 7g's this is the best plasma out there. The Fujutsu(sp) is better picture but doesn't have a speaker or tuner built in, also it is a few g's more. Just my .02 cents worth. Erik | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 403 Registered: 4-2003 |
Whart, Dr. I have the new sonyxbr800 50" rear LCD projection. 17" deep only, and I think around a 100lbs. Picture quality is OUTSTANDING!! It came recommended by an expert. I gave the guy a layout of my room and told him what I was trying to accomplish within a certain budget: great video and terrific audio. he really came through for me, and on the TV he said that I didn't have a choice--his words "This is the TV you are going to get." He was dead on. His speaker choice was fantastic as well. The whole system works perfect. Go see a specialist, you'll be much happier in the end. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 1120 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mine "burned out" after I think around 4 years or so... (a) there have been stellar advances in plasma technology over the past four years. if you purchased a unit in spring 1999 that just burned out yesterday, then that's not a surprising statement to hear. suffice it to say that today's units are head and shoulders above the first units to come to market. (b) virtually all of these displays ship, inexcusably, from the factory with their settings ratcheted up too high. you must have a proper calibration done on any new plasma display or you will risk reducing its lifespan. the contrast, brightness, and color settings will likely all need some pulling back to reach proper ISF calibration standards. the less you "overdrive" he brightness the longer the display will last. (c) i believe all the manufacturers now publish their "decay rates" which are basically the number of usage hours until the display is at half its original brightness. you can tweak the unit over time as it dims, but once it gets to half-brightness you probably can't tweak it up anymore to compensate. these numbers now are quite large and substantial. (d) plasmas absolutely did, do, and will be susceptible to image burn-in ghosting. don't buy used plasmas from commercial environments or brokerage houses - they'll almost certainly have burn-in on the screens - pixels that got "burnt" (on, in, out, whatever you like) such that when you put up an all-black screen or an all-white screen you can see ghost images (eg: a microsoft windows desktop or start bar). you can help deal with this problem by (i) not displaying static images on it (eg: computer screens) and (ii) making sure your unit is properly calibrated (cf.), which will usually reduce the brightness, etc. and will mean less time for burn-in. (e) all plasmas suffer from TEMPORARY burn-in. these are ghoest images as per (d) above, but they go away after a few minutes or an hour. many units come with settings that attempt to "reverse" burn-in, and they work to varying degrees. Picture quality ... seems heavily dependent on signal input quality.. (a) well, garbage-in, garbage-out. for sure - no way 'round that. (b) remember that there are a wide array of plasmas available at varying sizes and resolutions. imagine a plasma with 2500 lines of vertical resolution (this does not exist - just imagine it). if you fed this device a dvd signal (480 lines) it would have to "invent" 80% of the picture via its internal scaler. it wouldn't look good, probably. all plasmas have internal scalers. some of them suck rocks. some of them are great. some of them are great on certain types of content. some of them are great on most types of content. it's a morass. (c) you can always run an external scaler to do this work almost certainly better (to wildly better) than the internal scaler. front projection a front projector will almost always be a better solution than a plasma IF (i) you can control the ambient light in your room and (ii) you can physically accomodate a projector someplace and a big screen someplace. you can get a fine projector and a fine screen for less than a fine plasma. and you'll have a much bigger image. et cetera (a) check out the plasma forum at AVS: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=40. they even have a very nice FAQ. lots of interesting, educated, helpful people. (b) the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) of plasma cannot ever be understimated. i used to have a big 53" RPTV and my wife would joke that it had its own climate the damn thing was so huge. (c) worry about shipping. these things can get munged up real easily in transit. MOST OF THE MAJOR SHIPPERS WILL NOT COVER SHIPPING DAMAGE TO PLASMAS!!! (d) worry about calibration. at a minimum, proper calibration will extend the life of your plasma. at a maximum, it'll make the image RIGHT. (e) consider buying locally, due to C and D above. (f) if you don't want to run any outboard processing (scaler), consider the fujitsu units. they do a very nice job. (g) consider reading the AVS FAQ - it's wildly educational. (h) feel free to email me if you have other questions. doody. [i have a Pioneer PRO1000HD 50" with the optional PDA5002 expansion card. i purchased it locally in october 2001 and have had nothing but stellar experiences with it.] | ||
| will h (Willh)
Junior Member Username: Willh Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2003 |
Agree w/Wm Hart - you need an expert. My experience was as follows, a big hassle while spending pretty small dollars for the videophile world: - Bought plasma tv because I needed a very thin tv and, honestly, because it looks pretty cool (Fujitsu) - Picture lousy. - On advice of company that wired my home (new construction), switched from cable to DirecTV because "satellite is digital." Got five receivers, all the basic RCA models. This cost a few bucks. - Picture lousy. Wife and daughter now call $9k TV "DistortoVision." - On advice of wiring company, upgraded DVD player to $900 model. - With a great DVD, picture good. With some DVDs, picture still lousy. TV pictures still lousy. - Wiring Co sends out TV wholesaler, who tells me TV is fine, problem is elsewhere. Thanks!! - Wiring Co guy comes out, plays w/TV settings for a couple hours, then gives up, admits picture is lousy on all but good DVDs. So far, "Shrek" DVD looks really, really good. We watch Shrek. - Wiring co sends subcontractor out, who hooks up HiDef receiver and HiDef antenna in attic - also tells me that wiring co's video expert had quit just before I hired them (arrrgh). - Broadcast network HiDef picture from antenna is very good, other satellite channel picture greatly improved. Subcontractor also suggests switching to the oval HiDef antenna, but I've had enough for now. Moral: Unless you know what you're doing, get an expert. A real expert. The picture you see in the store may have nothing to do with the one you see at home. I love the LCD units, by the way. And the Sony XBRs are brutally heavy, and too big for many applications. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 589 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ooooo... Front projection is very very nice. My dad has one of these set ups and it's better than going to the movie theater. You won't beat that stuff. Some systems can be had relatively inexpensively, but listen to WHart. I went ahead with the plasma because found that if you don't go hard core with the projection stuff, you might as well not go there at all. Cheers | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 463 Registered: 4-2003 |
I need them for the house in Blowing Rock NC. Den, library, new wing bed room, play room. Every thing else get reg old tube. Maybe LCD in baths and Kitchen, though. DrS | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1134 Registered: 12-2001 |
I like the look of plasma most in environments which don't permit you to seriously reduce ambient light. If you are buying 4, Dr., i am assuming you have practical needs for these things (eg kitchen, den, bedroom or office environment); otherwise, i prefer the look of front projection, but, you can't cheap out and you've got to dedicate a room to it, control the room light, etc. I haven't used the current crop of XBRs, but last Sony CRT i had was one of the industrial models, but BIG; •••••• weighed like 180 lbs., was built in Japan (not Mexico) and picture could be tuned (color temp., etc) pretty effectively. As to flat nonplasmatics, i use a 20" sharp lcd in the kitchen and its great (on axis). If you need to talk to someone completely insane about picture quality, and available products, i've gotta guy who works with consumer and industrial TV, name is Izzy, here in NY. He has a superb eye and has set up big TV systems by eye better than the geeks with the Philips color analyzers and a computer. | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 458 Registered: 4-2003 |
Good advice all this!!!! I love Direct TV but am upgrading to Sony equipment from RCA. Any thoughts there?? DrS | ||
| Ed P. (Ebp)
Junior Member Username: Ebp Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2002 |
I believe his name is Chris Brody. But I'm not positive... | ||
| will h (Willh)
Junior Member Username: Willh Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2003 |
I second the advice to be careful with plasma TVs. Picture quality - probably obviously - seems heavily dependent on signal input quality. Our plasma seems to faithfully display any flaw at all in the picture - we really only have been happy with HiDef. FYI, we have DirecTV, but access broadcast HiDef with an antenna. My experience is, that to be happy with the picture you'll need great DVD player, playing great DVDs, and every hidef channel available. Otherwise, unless you have a design issue - you need a thin TV for the available space - I'd go with the XBR, which is huge but IMO superb. Note: I am NOT an expert - probably obvious, eh? | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 456 Registered: 4-2003 |
Yea, I know the sponcer, but who is the contact there?? I need someone to address my email to so they get credit for the sale and know (also) tha I am a fellow f-chatter!!! DrS | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 579 Registered: 11-2002 |
By the way... The sponsor was PlasmaTVs.com Cheers | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 578 Registered: 11-2002 |
Careful with those plasma screens. Mine "burned out" after I think around 4 years or so (don't remember when I bought it). While working at a car dealership, one of the salespeople used to sell the things. He claimed he felt sorry for anyone not buying the extended warranty on those things. Apparently a common problem? I know there are some audiophiles and video nuts in here. What's the deal with these things? I have since gone the Sony flatscreen way. Those XBRs have nice picture quality. Cheers | ||
| Drstranglove (Drstranglove)
Member Username: Drstranglove Post Number: 454 Registered: 4-2003 |
I am in the market for four of them, would like to get a deal. AND, I would like to give a fellow member my $$$$. DrS  |