| Author | Message | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 261 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks Bill - Lol! Now I feel like a simian, knuckle-dragging idiot :-) I think I have been in this town too long! | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 850 Registered: 2-2002 |
Chris: You've been in Hollywood too long. I think he means that she met the guy at a Bob Evans restaurant. They are pretty popular in the Midwest and East, but aren't in the Californian market. Now, if she really met Bob Evans the producer for breakfast, I agree that would be a problem!  | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 647 Registered: 11-2002 |
The Laws of Love and the Laws of Life by Steven Covey �1989 When we make deposits of unconditional love, when we live the primary laws of love, we encourage others to live the primary laws of life. In other words, when we truly love others without condition, without strings, we help them feel secure and safe and validated and affirmed in their essential worth, identity, and integrity. Their natural growth process is encouraged. We make it easier for them to live the laws of life�cooperation, contribution, self-discipline, integrity�and to discover and live true to the highest and best within them. We give them the freedom to act on their own inner imperatives rather than react to our conditions and limitations. This does not mean we become permissive or soft. That itself is a massive withdrawal. We counsel, we plead, we set limits and consequences. But we love, regardless. When we violate the primary laws of love�when we attach strings and conditions to that gift�we actually encourage others to violate the primary laws of life. We put them in a reactive, defensive position where they feel they have to prove �I matter as a person, independent of you.� In reality, they aren�t independent. They are counter-dependent, which is another form of dependency and is at the lowest end of centered, more concerned about defending their �rights� and producing evidence of their individuality than they are about proactively listening to and honoring their own inner imperatives. Rebellion is a knot of the heart, not of the mind. The key is to make deposits�constant deposits of unconditional love. p. 199, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Steven R. Covey, Simon & Schuster, �1989. | ||
| michael Alpert (Taters)
New member Username: Taters Post Number: 41 Registered: 5-2003 |
I have 3 magical words for you. Dump that •••••! | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 253 Registered: 5-2001 |
Philip, Having worked in the film industry for 12 years, I've had the good fortune to meet many interesting and fascinating people. Regarding Bob Evans, and I'm telling you this as a friend, I met someone years ago who's best friend was Bob's personal assistant for a long time and she had plenty of stories about Bob that would give me pause. I watched his self-produced film "The Kid Stays in the Picture" based on his autobiography, very tongue-in-cheek (although the film was very good). These stories were corraborated by people I know who worked with him on his Coppola collaborations. He's no angel and not one to be trusted. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with this if I was you. Again, just sharing what I've heard on the "inside" from people who knew him well. My father is a psychologist and has been counseling couples for almost 40 years. Communication is all important. He's always advised to use "non-absolutes" that won't neccesarily put the other person on the defensive. Begin your thoughts with phrases like "It seems like..."etc. - that way, you're not stating as fact, which makes them defensive, merely sharing your feelings or how it effects you - and how can they argue with that? He used to tell me when I was growing up that he would trust most anybody until they gave him a reason not to; once breached it's very difficult to earn that trust again. The fact that you know she's been lying, and even worse, get's defensive about it, or "explodes" as you put it are serious red flags. Also, as someone pointed out, women don't respect someone they can walk all over. Hope this helps for whatever it's worth and sincerely hope you can work it out. | ||
| Matthew J Germane (Mjgermane)
Junior Member Username: Mjgermane Post Number: 79 Registered: 1-2003 |
OT from this thread, but Bob, that is a beautiful picture of your 328. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1204 Registered: 3-2001 |
The great tiebreaker is trust. When the trust factor has been violated, the relationship is pretty well over. This happened to me in my first marriage many years ago and it hurts. On the other hand, what appeared at the time to be the worst thing that ever happened in my life turned out to be a blessing in disguise... it allowed me to meet my current wife. Two kids and 14 years later, life is completely different... I can't imagine ever being happier. You probably have some rough roads ahead... there's some good advise on this thread. Good luck! | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 4947 Registered: 8-2002 |
Philip, I hate top pry but is there something in the past that you may have done to make her do this? I am not accusing you, just trying to fill in the blanks. Matt | ||
| Matthew J Germane (Mjgermane)
Junior Member Username: Mjgermane Post Number: 75 Registered: 1-2003 |
One more thing. It is things like this that help us remember what really is important in life. | ||
| Matthew J Germane (Mjgermane)
Junior Member Username: Mjgermane Post Number: 73 Registered: 1-2003 |
I am not married yet, but will be in about 3 weeks. I have to disagree with a few things that have been said. First from the child psychologist. "Marriages, successful marriages, aren't 50/50 proprositions, they're 75/75." I believe that they are even more than 75/75, they are/or at least should be, 100/100. Each person needs to give a marriage their all. When you get married you have made the decision to spend the rest of your life with that other person through thick or thin. Marriage should not be something that does not work out. Second, Taek-Ho Kwon said "Think of what your life will be like after the worst happens. Be prepared for it." which I think is good advice to prepare youself emotionally, but it does not always work that way for everybody. In my life I have tried this tactic and sometimes I feel as though the situation ended up as the worse case because I already had the mentality of dealing with it that way. Everybody is different and you need to decide for yourself what will work for you. When you talk to her, try and keep your mind clear. Emotions are very powerful and a lot of people make decisions from emotion and not logic. You have invested a lot into this so far, do what you think is right. I wish you all the luck in the world. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 607 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ed you said what I wanted to say a lot better. Excellent advice. Cheers | ||
| Ed Christophersen (Dr_c)
New member Username: Dr_c Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2002 |
Philip: My perspective is probably different from others since I'm a kiddy shrink for a living (that is, I'm a successful clinical child psychologist). My philosophy has always been that I'm better at looking at (and, if necessary, changing) my behavior than I am with my wife of 32 years. Before you have the "big confrontation," ask yourself some tough questions: Are you doing everthing you can to nurture and support the relationship? Are you keeping it exciting and interesting and stimulating? Do you know what your wife really likes and are you making sure that she's getting what she needs to out of your relationship? Any idiot can hire an attorney and desolve a relationship that's lasted 32 years. And, in the end, that could be what happens. But, I would want to know that my wife got the "first string" from me. My wife owns and shows horses. That's expensive and time consuming. But, to me, it's worth it. I make sure that I surprise her with a flower a couple of times a month. We go a lot of places that she wants to go. She, in turn, did not complain when I wanted to purchase my (fill in the blank name of a car). Marriages, successful marriages, aren't 50/50 proprositions, they're 75/75. People today think that they can talk their way through anything but it takes money to buy good wine. Ask yourself, if you were treated the way your are treating your wife, how would you like it? Now, if you ask yourself all of these questions, and you do all of this soul searching, and it ends up that she really doesn't need or want you anymore, put the wagons in a circle (with the f-cars in the middle), get an attorney, a really good, experienced attorney, and get it over with. just my $.02. Good luck. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 606 Registered: 11-2002 |
Philip, it sounds like you are headed towards a hard couple of days. Although it pains me to say, I think you should first prep for the worst. I know I must sound like a cold bastard, but maybe it's time to protect some of your assets etc. Money and possessions are always an unpleasant thing to talk about, but necessary to live. I'm the type of guy who likes to think worst case scenario and usually end up with the best case happening. Think of what your life will be like after the worst happens. Be prepared for it. I do hope all works out for the best whichever way it goes. Keep in mind to put your kids first (if you have any) they're worth any and every sacrifice. Cheers | ||
| Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member Username: Ron328 Post Number: 143 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hope things end toward the bright side for the 2 of you, Philip. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1714 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ross, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  | ||
| Anka (Mechanka)
New member Username: Mechanka Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2003 |
Philip, I am not married nor a man but have been in a very committed relationship for many years. I have something to contribute but since I don't know you and your history obviously you will make the call if it applies to your situation. I know a lot of people (men and women) that do this sort of thing where they say that they are meeting or going one place and in truth they have a different agenda. Most of the time it is harmless - the reason they do it is that their partner is slightly or overly jealous so in order to save themselves some grief, because they have no bad intentions, they rather just say that they are meeting a friend, etc.... Maybe you have given her a little grief in the past for meeting men-friends (again, I�m just speculating and not implying) and she knows that since she doesn�t have any bad intentions she�d rather just distort the truth. Don�t get me wrong I don�t exactly condone this type of behaviour because most of the time these sorts of things get out of hand or escalate not to mention you are giving the other party ammunition to accuse them of cheating. Therefore, in most cases �honesty is the best policy� � TRUST is EVERYTHING and on a general note � there is no room for jealousy in love! For your sake, I really hope that what she is doing is harmless (relatively speaking) � and like most of the people suggested speak with her and I�m sure if you resolve this, she will change her behaviour. And remember don't accuse her of cheating unless you are more then sure of it. Anyway, what I wrote is just a thought to consider� | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 252 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks to everyone for the advice and support. I'm sure I'll have a rough weekend ahead of me......Rob, I'm going to pick up that book tonight. It certainly sounds like something that I may benefit from reading. I've taken off work tomorrow and Friday.....just to clear my head. Thanks to all. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 944 Registered: 12-2001 |
Philip - I'm not a married man but I am female. Let me give my point of view. Cheating isn't just having sex with someone else. We all have boundaries of respect and crossing them is cheating. Loyalty and devotion to the person you married is important and what she is doing is wrong. If she cannot be open and honest to you I see a downhill spiral. Many women look for the Prince Charming to take them away from the stresses of real life......same as some men think the grass is greener on the other side. You have to confront her in a non-abusive or agressive way. Then you have two choices: 1. If there is something there you both fight tooth and nail to make it work.....she has to work to regain your trust and the lying must stop. You have to find out WHY she is lying and what you can do to help the relationship. 2. Your choice is to leave - quick and clean. Trust is key in any relationship and it's gone. If she has made up her mind that she is not happy and she is disrespecting you and your marriage and lying......there's no point in beating a dead horse. I do hope that choice number one is the one you choose. Us women are funny creatures...I can't even figures us out! We may lie about the new dress we bought but lying about where we are and with whom....that is NOT right. Good luck and I hope things work out for you both. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3762 Registered: 9-2001 |
I would add some items of interest to the great advice you have gotten already. My wife's friend caught her husband cheating about a year ago, I don't know how they have done it but they have worked through it, are still together and seem happy. My wifes other friend has been contemplating cheating on her husband, she meets this old flame for coffee and lunches, she is not sure why she does it - or at least that is what she tells my wife, I suspect something in her maritial relationship is a problem. In the end unless you talk it though in a non-confrontational matter you will not get to the real issues. These days to many folks give up too easily, marriage is never as easy and happy go lucky as protrayed on tv, it takes a lot of work. good luck | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 1807 Registered: 6-2001 |
phillip: Like Jim, I've been married a long time, 32+ years. If she is lying to you, you either have to correct it or leave the relationship, if its causing you this much grief. I would be somewhat leary about confronting her over this. I would suggest that you use a mediator, marriage counselor, etc. This keeps the actual confrontation away from you two personally, so that the emotional issues that will arise from this situation don't have to be dealt with on a confrontational basis, face to face. It may very well come down to ending the relationship, but perhaps this may resolve your relationship and put it on a better footing. However, have you thought about the long term effects this will have upon your trust of her? I don't know if I could deal with that long term, but the choice is yours. Art | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 608 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just finished re-reading Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Steven Covey. In the beginning it speaks of the underlying importance of the Emotional Bank Account, that one makes deposits here as an investment in the relationship. I learned this habit the hard way and am very fortunate to have a wonderful woman with patience and understanding in my life (married one year, together for four). Hope this works out for the best for each of you Philip. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 631 Registered: 4-2002 |
You need to look at this situation from 'a rest of your life perspective'. Can you live this way for the years to come? Always worrying, constantly mistrusting....There is an adage that says leopards don't change their spots. Are there children involved? If you do decide to split, would it be better for you (financially) to do in now rather than later? I've been married for almost 21 years. I hope it works out for you, whatever you choose to do. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Intermediate Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 1313 Registered: 7-2002 |
my wife and I have been together for 13 years, but only married for 2. She used to pull some of these same stunts on me, but we were 20 at the time. Where there was smoke there was usually fire. Honesty and trust are key so don't kid yourself as you will only prolong the issue and hurt yourself more. I would try to talk to her, but try not to fight. Like others have said if you can't meet halfway and discuss it then move on. Nobody respects a pushover and neither will your wife. Stand up for your own beliefs and for what you want/deserve. Again, not promoting a fight. Good luck! | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Intermediate Member Username: Whart Post Number: 1145 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think you are getting sound advice here, philip, and the only thing i'd add is that you have to be guided by what feels fair and right to you. One person's intolerance with uncertainty is another's room for understanding; no one can determine what is right for you, but you. At the same time, to the extent you are doing a little reality checking, i think everybody here is saying something's up that has to be confronted by you, if not by her. I guess the other point for posting is simply to acknowledge that this board truly does serve as a community, not only by Philip's comfort in asking, but by everybody else's sincere responses. Best wishes to everybody. | ||
| Bruce Wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1893 Registered: 4-2002 |
GREAT ADVISE FROM ALL...I HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR 16 YRS AND HAVE LEARNED THAT RESPECT ,PATIENCE, AND LOYALTY IS THE KEY... IF THERE IS A SITUATION IN MY MARRIAGE THAT BOTHERS ME, I SIT DOWN AND TALK TO MY WIFE CALMLY..WHERE YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME..MARRIAGE WORKS BOTHS WAYS AND THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS "SECRETS".. PHIL,,NO MARRIED MAN WOULD LET EXCUSES LIKE :IM GOING TO SUZIES HOUSE" AND IS NOT THERE. BE ACCEPTABLE..NO WAY.. TALKING CALMLY OVER A DINNER OUT , WITHOUT THE KIDS WOULD BE YOUR 1ST APPROACH. GOOD LUCK, BRUCE | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Intermediate Member Username: Ross Post Number: 1234 Registered: 3-2002 |
been married 14 years today. as the others have said, you need to have a serious discussion, without losing your cool, but getting to the bottom of the problem if there is one. you never know, the issue may not be between the 2 of you, but this other guy may be seeking advice on something etc. but until you find out the truth, don't torture yourself jumping to conclusions. sounds like you also need to do a self-check on whether you are living up to your half of the deal. you say you tend to build walls up, and this is not conducive to the first rule of a good marriage, communication. | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 4931 Registered: 8-2002 |
Philip, I have been married 7 years and I agree with Dave and Jim but be VERY careful when you talk to her. Something is setting her off already and she is looking for a spark. Keep is down and low. But I would talk to her soon. Has Jim says there are bumps on the road of love. It just sounds like you it a pothole. M | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Junior Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 250 Registered: 2-2003 |
well guys, all of this is good advice.....I guess nothing earth shattering, but it's good to hear from people.........good advice Dave.....get to the root of the problem........I do have a tendency to "build up walls"....but then how can I not...............I know, this issue is always deeper than what they appear.......thanks all | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 160 Registered: 2-2003 |
Philip, All seriousness, it sounds like you're in denial. If she's meeting people behind your back, lying to you about where she's been and "explodes" when you call her out there is something going on. Married poeple don't "hide things" from each other (how some of the guys on here get away with buying $100K cars and not telling their wifes is beyond me). At least, married people who want stay married don't. Try to find a time and place to sit down with her and tell her your concerns. If she blows you off, talk to a lawyer or PI, if she listens and actually comes up with a legitimate explanation then you're probably OK. Just my 2-cents. | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Junior Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 249 Registered: 2-2003 |
Wow, James..........32 years!!! That's amazing....You have accomplished so much in so many areas of your life........truly amazing. I mean it. Your advice speaks volumes. Thank you. Philip | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Intermediate Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 1711 Registered: 1-2002 |
Philip, I habe been married "only" 13 years, but have to echo Jim's comments. THis doesn't look good, but it may not be a total write-off. Bottom line: something is making her behave this way--something inside her, something regarding you, etc. It is incumbent on you to find out what it is, and it is incumbent on her to tell you. If neither of those happen, well, that's not good news. Best wishes... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1459 Registered: 10-2002 |
Having been married for 32 years I'd say while there are always bumps this sounds like unless it's resolved very soon is heading for a train wreck. The time has come for a serious no holds barred confrontation. Making a mistake, forgiving a mistake is one thing. Continued deception after being confornted is another. Good Luck! | ||
| philip (Fanatic1)
Junior Member Username: Fanatic1 Post Number: 248 Registered: 2-2003 |
Guys.........I have a serious question, and I would appreciate advice from the MARRIED MEN. I'm sure some of you singles have valuable input, it's just that when your married, everything changes..........sorry, it's just a fact. What would you do if you KNEW your wife has been lying to you.........not necessarily an "affair" But she lies about where she goes, who she's with, what she's doing..........where does a relationship go from here? I've "called her out" a couple times....times she would say, "Oh, I just went to Suzi's house"...then I'd say "are you sure"......because Suzi called here looking for you...........it explodes from there....I've caught her meeting another guy.......no where crazy.....Bob Evans for breakfast.......he's been her friend for a long time........I really don't believe anything is "going on" YET........What would you guys advise...........is there any hope? Obviously a painful subject.......serious replies are appreciated. |