| Author | Message | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 203 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hahaha, Nicely run in I guess!. I wonder if it ever had reliability issues ... if it didn't really shows that we look after our cars way too well, and should just get out there and give them a good thrash  Enzo would have done the same ... Pete | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 643 Registered: 10-2002 |
Great article in this months "Classic Car" (UK) on ISO/Bizzarini GT that came in first in class at LeMans in 65. Bizzarini got into a $ dispute with his alum body maker so he made this one in fiberglass but it was so thick it weighed more than the Alum ones. After the race he sanded off the numbers, cleaned it up, and sold it as a new street car! | ||
| Dave Trbizan (Davidt)
New member Username: Davidt Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2002 |
I have a friend that has a Iso Rivolta for sale. The car has been gone over. 365hp 327. Have a look. He plans on posting it on ebay. www.exoticautoparts.ca/ebay/iso1.jpg www.exoticautoparts.ca/ebay/iso2.jpg www.exoticautoparts.ca/ebay/iso3.jpg www.exoticautoparts.ca/ebay/iso4.jpg www.exoticautoparts.ca/ebay/iso5.jpg | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 160 Registered: 12-2001 |
Pete: Thanks. I started cruising the web after I posted. I was thinking/hoping 3-4K. I did talk to the seller. He bought it several years ago, put it in storage, did nothing with it, now he's selling. Oh well, I'm 6'3" and it has an 86 inch wheelbase, so maybe its for the best. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2495 Registered: 12-2000 |
Erich, with so few in existance, its hard to pin-point a price on a car like this. I'd bet his reserve is set between $10-15K Here are a few sites on the Europa: http://personal.redestb.es/superfuzz/bizzarrini/ubws_bizz_1900_gt.htm http://www.tuttobene.ch/car/en/index.jsp?page=10 http://home.att.net/%7ecochrans/bizzar01.htm http://www.motionalmemories.com/Bizzarrini.htm | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2174 Registered: 8-2002 |
LOL...! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 585 Registered: 10-2002 |
As the Beach Boys sang:" She's a no go showboat" | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2170 Registered: 8-2002 |
James, i agree- i don't want a Ferrari if it's just gonna sit there, so you're right... & i guess this thing just doesn't move like it should, huh...? Still, it looks fast... | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 159 Registered: 12-2001 |
Peter: Really? That would actually be kinda cool. Do you know what they go for refurbished, or what this one is probably worth? | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 158 Registered: 12-2001 |
Peter: Really? That would actually be kinda cool. Do you know what they go for refurbished? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2493 Registered: 12-2000 |
P.S. The photo used in that auction is the same one in the book... | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2492 Registered: 12-2000 |
Erich, that model uses an Opel GT 1900 engine. According to Rob De Le Rive Box's book: "The Complete Encyclopedia of Sports Cars - Classic Era" there were 15 made between 1966-1969. The first version was powered by a 1500 Fiat four. | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 157 Registered: 12-2001 |
And if you're looking to buy one...http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2403327870&category=34200 | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 568 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wayne That's the one. You are right. 88 killed many injured. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 873 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jim, I'm assuming you're talking about the crash in 1955. I think the death toll was more like 82 or 83 people with 70-75 injured. Still, a tragedy nonetheless. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 563 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wyane Winston got this one wrong as well. There were two Bizzarini's that raced at LeMans in 66. A coupe and a Spyder. Borgeson has that part right but is wrong about them being the fastest cars on the Mulsanne. The Fords were 40KLMs faster the P3's 20KLMS faster. The photo that that describes as a Bizzarini leading the pack is actually a Bizzarini about to be lapped. One of them spun at the start crashed into a barrier and limped along until it was disqualified for cutting accross the pits over the pit line and onto the track. The French were a little uptight about such maneuvers as a similar move near the pits had resulted in an accident that killed 180 people a few years earlier. The second one retired early on as well when an ace mechanic jacked the car up severing the water line before the car had gone the required distance to allow additional water to be added. At the Greenwich Concours they had to push this car as well as it couldn't find any gears. As it wasn't the one asked to drive up the ramp that day it didn't really matter as the car that was asked to drive up the ramp was able to make it and drive home as well... Des IMHO before you call a car "Badass" you shouldn't forget the lesson's of rock and roll: "It's not the meat it's the motion." Badass cars must move. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2115 Registered: 8-2002 |
That is one bad ass car... | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 864 Registered: 8-2002 |
Here are some pics I found: http://personal.redestb.es/superfuzz/bizzarrini/ubws_bizz_p538.htm http://www.motorbase.com/vehicle/5/1/2/7/2/5/4/3/ http://members.lycos.nl/kamaz/bizzarini/bizzarini2.html The first site is full of pics and info. Very interesting. It includes an interesting letter written by (Jim's favorite journalist) Winston goodfellow. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 244 Registered: 2-2002 |
Here is another picture of the car. There was an article in European Car Magazine about a year ago about this car. From what I remember, it is one of two cars with the Lamborghini V12 engine. The other is in a musuem in San Diego. The car sounded great when the started it up. The owner paid over $1M for the car I believe. Too bad they could not get it to go into gear and had to push the thing. I guess that you have to laugh knowing that you paid over $1M for a car only for it not to work. FWIW, it was parked right next to my 308QV, so I had to look at the car all day (someone has to do it!)  Ken | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 562 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wayne I'll try to find where I read about them but I think 2 were Lambo powered and 2 had chevy's. Best Jim | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 860 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks, Jim. So there were 4 built? Do you know if there were 2 Lambo-powered show cars and 2 Chevy?-powered comp cars or were they all Lambo-powered like this one? By the way, I don't believe anyone actually thinks the Bizza stood even a slim chance of winning at LM. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2082 Registered: 8-2002 |
Oh, ok, i see... | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 557 Registered: 10-2002 |
Des no Bizzarini ever finished LeMans much less won it. This one was real but it never raced anywhere. It's sister car was the one that DNF'ed. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2080 Registered: 8-2002 |
So the show car wasn't the one that won at LeMans... Was it just a different kind or was it a >gulp< replica...? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 556 Registered: 10-2002 |
In 66 Ford finished 1-2-3. The one I saw was more of a show car. There's a big difference between a show car and one that wins LeMans... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2074 Registered: 8-2002 |
So James, who won...? & how come the car's not really very operational...? Are you saying i couldn't take this down to the local 7-11, pick up a Coke and then hit the parkway...? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 555 Registered: 10-2002 |
Wayne There were 4. Pretty but not really operational. That one is the poster car for "Trailer Queen" At the Greenwich Concours it was parked next to my MK-IV it's owner sugested to one of the judges that if it's sister car hadn't been Disqualified at LeMans for "political reasons...Ferrari" it would have won. The judge looked over at my MK-IV smiled and said: "What do you thing Jim?" | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 854 Registered: 8-2002 |
That's the Bizzarini P538 Barchetta. One competed in the 1966 Le Mans, but was disqualified after crossing the pit safety line and received a DNF status. I have read from different sources that there were only two built as well from other sources that there were as many as four built. I have no idea who owns them (or their chassis #'s), maybe someone else here is a Bizza buff? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 2072 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ken, that's an awesome car... Where's the other one...? Very sweet-lookin' car... | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 243 Registered: 2-2002 |
Here is a picture of a very rare Bizzarini. I believe that it's one of two in the world, and this one has a Lamborghini v12 engine. The picture was taken at the Reading, Pa concours.  | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2002 |
Oooo...be very careful there. Last thing you want to get into is an old rusty car. You'll spend tons restoring it--way more than you would if you just bought a car that was already done. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 745 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sorry to turn this into a Mangusta debate. I read that they made 412(?) Mangustas. Don't know the exact number of Bizzarinis, probably alot less. There use to be a guy who ran an ad in every issue of Hemmings Motor News for years looking for Bizzarini cars and parts. I would guess that they are pretty much impossible to buy unless you find one already restored, and with the appropriate price tag. But you can't consider the engine as such a percentage of the car's value like you would a Ferrari because it's just a Chevy engine. Any speed shop can build one to your liking. Of course the Mangusta is just a Ford motor. But overall, I'm still partial to the Bizzarini. I'd be willing to settle for a rust bucket project Bizz! But the Mangusta styling is truely "out there". It looks like something from one of the old "Space 1999" episodes! | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2002 |
I've never owned a Mangusta either, and being that DeTomaso didn't expect demand, and consequently built about 400 of them, you are probably right about needing a more refined finish. However, the ZF transmission and Ford motor are the main mechanical worries, both of which are very strong. The Panteras--yes, when they first came out they needed some help. Having gone from the drawing board to the street in only 9 months (this was before AutoCAD!), they initially needed some help, mainly the cooling. But after the first year or year and a half, Ford had corrected all the DeTomaso errors stateside, and had them putting out better cars. I'd say by late '72 there weren't much worries. Most owners these days upgraded and tuned all that stuff years ago. An interesting note about the ZF transmissions...Ford stocked tons of these in anticipation of future maintenance. In the end, when they abandoned the Pantera program, they were stuck with a lot of ZFs, as they are so rock solid. Great tranny's. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 678 Registered: 2-2002 |
Matt: You're obviously more in tune than I am, but the word I've had from friends who know--including one who is a well-known auto journalist who has owned several Panteras, including Warren Tope's ex-IMSA Pantera that was used as a street car--is that Mangusta's were very much an unfinished canvas. It is a well-known fact that Panteras were not very good straight from the factory. Many updates were needed to make them liveable. I've heard that Mangustas are even more in need of fine tuning than Panteras, but then, I've never owned one. | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2002 |
I've never heard that Mangustas are mechanical nightmares. No real substance? Never heard that either. Classic Car & Driver just did an issue with a feature on the Mangusta. They thought the car handled very strong, and considered it up there with such classics as the Miura. No, not near as powerful as the Miura, but still cutting edge stylistically (sp?). I would imagine both the Mangusta and Bizzarini's would be hard to find on parts (other than the motor), but which do you think will have a better support base--DeTomaso or Bizzarini? One is even still in business, however marginally. Horse, if you want the email of a knowledgable Mangusta owner, just let me know. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 677 Registered: 2-2002 |
Horsefly: A Bizzarini would be a far better idea than a Mangusta if you could find one. Mangusta's are mechanical nightmares, the proverbial pretty face with no substance behind it. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 744 Registered: 5-2002 |
Are all of the Bizzarini/Iso Grifo A3C cars accounted for? Any realistic chance of ever locating an unrestored car? I might even settle for a Detomaso Mangusta, but I like the Bizzarini better. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 573 Registered: 8-2001 |
A nice link about the car: http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0205ec_bizzar/ | ||
| Gomer (Sparetireless)
New member Username: Sparetireless Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2003 |
No | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2002 |
I'll have to stick with the Miura in terms of what I think looks better. I think the Grifo has sort of a Corvette look to it (not to say that is bad). But even if both cars were cheap (fantasy here), I'd get the Iso Grifo in a heartbeat. If I am correct Iso flip-flopped back and forth between Chevy and Ford engines. Bottom line--no expensive (rare) parts there. I don't know about the Grifo's transmission. I hear the Miura's are a nightmare when it comes to parts, with owner's having to get custom stuff machined, or adapt other available parts for Miura use. Apparently Lamborghini stopped supporting the Miura a long time ago (typical Italian exotic). | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Intermediate Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 1941 Registered: 8-2002 |
i have to agree with Kenny, i think that rivals the Miura as far as looks go... It just looks that much more sleeker... A very exotic-looking automobile, i must say... Yeah, JRV, uh, send PSk what he wants and, while you're at it, Send me that Diablo Roadster you've got at your shop... Leave the bill in the glove compartment of the Diablo and when i get it, i'll uh... um... send you a check... yeah, send you a check, that's what i'll do... | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 811 Registered: 8-2002 |
Arlie, I believe you're correct that the Bizza is a based on the A3/C as opposed to the A3/L, which is the Grifo road car in JRV's pic. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 564 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think this car rivals the Miura in the looks department... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 723 Registered: 5-2002 |
The Bizzarini has sides that are flat and perpendicular to the ground and an overall look that is lower, meaner, and more swoopy than the Grifo. I think the Bizzarini was spun off the Grifo A3C competition car. I've always thought the Bizzarini was one of the badest looking cars ever. But where would the average guy ever find one for sale? As I posted previously, see the Disney film, Herbie, The Love Bug and there are several Bizzarinis in that movie. Wonder where they are today? | ||
| PSk (Psk)
Junior Member Username: Psk Post Number: 126 Registered: 11-2002 |
He designed the 250GTO so knows what he is doing ... JRV, that one on the trailer is beautiful, please send in my direction, DES will pay Pete | ||
| Dr. J C928 (Attitude928)
New member Username: Attitude928 Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2002 |
Bizzarrini Strada's go for 130K-170K. The Iso Grifo's are a better deal in the 30's. They're wicked cars with independent suspension and a corvette engine. Watch for rust when buying, but less engine hassle than a Maser or Prancer. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 560 Registered: 8-2001 |
Absolutely beautiful car... How much do they sell for? | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 673 Registered: 2-2002 |
That's definitely an Iso Grifo. The Bizzarini looks quite different:   | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 883 Registered: 11-2002 |
Guys, I thought it was an ISO badged Bizzarini...goes to show what I know about ISO/Bizzarinis...hey..sometimes I just work on them no questions asked...;-)... They're both cool rides though. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 800 Registered: 8-2002 |
Matt, they are virtually the same car. Bizzarini split from Iso in 1965 but continued to build his own version of the car and called it the Bizzarini 5300 GT Strada. On second look at this car, though, it has the rear window treatment of the Iso version of the car. JRV, this isn't a Grifo? | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2002 |
Bizzarini's are awesome. That one there looks like an Iso Grifo, though? | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
Member Username: Eric308gtsiqv Post Number: 576 Registered: 11-2001 |
Wow, that is nice...sort of reminds me of the lines of the Muira. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 868 Registered: 11-2002 |
Here's one I used to service until sold a few years ago...cool cars.  |