| Author |
Message |
Lashdeep Singh (Lashss)
New member
Username: Lashss
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 12:07 pm: | |
Not quite converted, but have acknowledged the wealth of info on this forum. Glad to be a part of both worlds.
Lashdeep |
Paul (Pcelenta)
Member
Username: Pcelenta
Post Number: 376
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 8:36 am: | |
hey, Deep! Welcome to the chat! so you're a convert from the "list"? Hope all is well..any trips to NYC planned?
Regards,
Paul |
Lashdeep Singh (Lashss)
New member
Username: Lashss
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 8:31 am: | |
I just saw the new Lambo at the Goodwood Festival. It wasn't very impressive in person...much less striking than the Murc and even the 360. Resembled what a Celica GTS and a 350Z smashed together may look like.
Impressive performance claims though, no doubt about that. |
arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member
Username: Art355
Post Number: 2194
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 11:40 am: | |
I've got 36k on my original clutch. I don't do burnouts, and am very careful when starting. That may have something to do with it.
Art |
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 2036
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 1:41 pm: | |
Mitch
David Piper lost his leg as a result of French doctors not cleaning brake fluid out of a wound he suffered in a crash while driving for the movie LeMans. Because of that he feel's his artifical leg is ok for the throttle but not sensitive enough for the brake. To see him blast along in a P4, 917, Lola T70, 250 LM, P2, etc. left foot braking and making clutchless shifts is an amazing thing... |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 875
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 10:43 am: | |
"Mod, any tips to see if we other drivers are doing this right?"
If the nose of the car drops or raises when the clutch is re-engaged, then you have not done it right.
If your passenger can tell when the clutch is engaged or disengaged, you are not doing it right.
If you get slammed in the back when the clutch re-engages, you are not doing it right. If you lurch forward when the clutch disengages, you are not doing it right.
If neither you nor you passenger can tell when the clutch re-engages, you are finally doing it right.
The clutch is designed to engage and disengage the engine from the drive wheels. The clutch has a friction zone, and therefore, it can be used to progressively transfer TQ from the engine to the drive wheels; and this allow you to start from a dead stop.
You should use the friction zone to "teach" you throttle foot where it needs to be. Nose drops, add throttle, nose raises, reduce throttle. You should NOT use the friction zone to cover your throttle mistakes. Clutchs convert copious amounts of energy into heat when large amount of power are transmitted while the clutch is in the Friction Zone. This is what wears clutches out.
On a race track, you should be able to feel the clutch comming out, and if the RPMs even begin to change, SLOW down the engagement of the clutch and adjust the throttle, until the clutch is not doing the work of adjusting the RPMs of the engine to match toht RPMs at the input to the transmission. This is foot-work (throttle, clutch), and should not be relegated to the clutch (disk).
If you misuse a clutch you should consider it like barke pads--expendible. If you use it as designed, you should be able to get 60,000 to 100,000 miles on it. If you are not getting this kind of millage, you are not using the clutch correctly. Brake pads are $500 a set, clutches are $2000 a pop. Use them wisely. |
J R K (Kenyon)
Member
Username: Kenyon
Post Number: 452
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 6:42 am: | |
Modman,
I have 348 Spider and its done nearly 35,000 miles and its still on its orginal clutch. I have seen on this Forum clutches being replaced on 348's at 15,000 miles. WHY. I have done trackdays with it, I don not do burnouts. I do match the RPM when changing gear and let the clutch out gently as you said. The Ferrari deaer has siad its rear to have a orginal clutch on a 348 do even 25,000 miles. Where is he coming from.
I had a Maserati 430 with 130,000 miles on it with 400 bhp and it was still on its orginal clutch.
I have been told lots of times that lambos' use clutches quickly. I am not to sure though. I would sell the 348 spyder to buy a diablo, but worried about the clutch thing. I have seen 91, 92 diablos for the same price as a 348 spyder in the UK. LHD though. |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 656
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 5:04 am: | |
John, your 355 has issues then but what I'm talking about applies to the majority of the premature clutch wear, come on 1500 miles and a new clutch needed, now tell me if that makes any sense. Do you not drive the car on the freeway? only track events and 1/4 mile launches? burnouts? The car has a major problem in my book and a car like that would be a car that would do no good for anyone, I could put 1500 miles in a month so go figure every month needing a clutch replacement, what a piece of sh** then, would that be acceptable? hell no. Hope you found out what the problem is with your car.
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john (Johnwto)
Junior Member
Username: Johnwto
Post Number: 100
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 5:54 pm: | |
"people who burn them out at that such low miles most certainly don't know how to use the clutch properly"
modman what are you talking about???!!!
my 1999 355f1 had to have the clutch replaced at 1500 miles. can you explain to me how i didn't use the clutch right? and can u explain why my 500+hp turbo, my 2000 360 and my 2002 360 didn't have any clutch problems??
there is no myth about the F1 ferrari clutches, they DO have problems. not all of them but way too many of them. |
Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member
Username: Toby91
Post Number: 201
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 5:51 pm: | |
I agree wiyh Modman, Fcar clutch issues are approaching a urban myth. I've put 60000 on my 328 including 15 track events with only one clutch change, 25000 512Tr miles 6 track events including dragstrips with the original clutch still doing fine, 14000 miles on my 360F1 including 6 track events and many burnouts with the original clutch doing fine.
On topic, the Gallardo spec are fantastic and Ferrari better take notice quickly. I would love another 100 shp on my 360 and maybe 4 wheel drive. Why is Ferrari so negative on super or turbo charging??? The F40 and 288 are still highly regarded. A BIG mistake in my view. SHP is SHP. Isn't it? |
Omar (Auraraptor)
Member
Username: Auraraptor
Post Number: 684
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 5:21 am: | |
Interesting....just wondering do you pick up what the rpms should be at from experiance or is there a way you can tell?
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James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 1618
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 3:18 pm: | |
Mod
David Piper lost his leg as a result of a crash during the filming of LeMans. As a result he uses his artificial leg on the brakes and his right on the throttle. To see him shift his P4 without using the clutch is pretty impressive.
Ron
I don't think this is an issue with a 6 speed.
Best |
Ron Vallejo (Ron328)
Junior Member
Username: Ron328
Post Number: 179
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 3:06 pm: | |
This 360 clutch wear issue, does it matter if it
is F1 or 6-spd manual? (I don't own a 360 and am not knowledgeable about it. But I am curious bec. I've read posts here about clutch failure in the 360s at less than 10K miles). Thanks. Ron |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 631
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 1:24 am: | |
There are a few things to know when shifting like matching shift points with RPMs and usually when I shift between gears it's smooth to where I barely press the clutch down and when the shifts are made they are smooth and quick and you don't feel a hard tug when shifting into the next gear. Also when down shifting a lot of stress goes to the clutch when RPM's are not matched so that alone causes premature wear. I don't drive like speedracer all the time so when I shift between gears it's usually at a moderate RPM and not work the RPMs too high before shifting during normal driving. You will know how smooth your shifts are especially if you can shift gears without pressing the clutch but wouldn't advise to drive like that. |
Omar (Auraraptor)
Member
Username: Auraraptor
Post Number: 678
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 1:05 am: | |
Mod, any tips to see if we other drivers are doing this right? |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 630
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:57 pm: | |
Clutches burning out at 9K miles? people who burn them out at that such low miles most certainly don't know how to use the clutch properly, that's all there is to it. When I had my 348 on original cluth with 36K miles I drove the car real hard including doing some massive burnouts and never had a clutch problem. On my Diablo I also drive it hard and did some rear tire roasting after removing the driveline to the front. On both vehicles I never needed to drop clutch to get the car roasting the rear wheels, in fact none of the cars I've ever owned ever needed clutch replacement. I could probably go over 100K on the Diablo knowing how to shift the car properly, time will tell. Most people who have driven my Diablo can't shift smooth enough to make it last so that right there tells me that the experience is needed for most people who plan on owning one of these cars.
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arthur chambers (Art355)
Intermediate Member
Username: Art355
Post Number: 1557
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 8:31 pm: | |
Marty:
You may have saved a dinner. I'm hearing an 05 model, not an 04. I'm still getting the 04 however.
Art |
martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Member
Username: Mw575
Post Number: 934
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 5:15 pm: | |
420 or whatever they will call it will not be here until '06 or '07 says the gen mgr of the local F dealership |
Jeff (Jeff_m)
Junior Member
Username: Jeff_m
Post Number: 125
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 12:08 pm: | |
I would take James's advice and drive the Gallardo. I guess you already have the 360 and the Lambo will be under warranty. I don't buy it about the all new models of anything have problems,the new 360's still have plenty and they have been out for a while. |
Wyatt Hanson (Wyatth)
New member
Username: Wyatth
Post Number: 28
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2003 - 12:04 am: | |
I prefer the 360 over the Gallardo.
Does anybody have ANY info on the 420? |
Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member
Username: Amenasce
Post Number: 858
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 9:17 pm: | |
360 Stradale ! |
noel smith (Noel)
Member
Username: Noel
Post Number: 278
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 4:26 pm: | |
360 clutches are crap. |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 390
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 4:07 pm: | |
How are you driving that the clutch is burning out so soon? |
Dr.John Gober (Drjohngober)
New member
Username: Drjohngober
Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 1:34 pm: | |
I am one of those guys that always has to be the first on the block to have the new toy before anyone else does.My wife thinks it is a curse. I love the 360,but I know I am going to want the Gallardo when it is released. I am just concerned that when it gets here I am going to regret it. When I bought the 360, I also considered a Diablo Roadster, but their history of burning through clutches in 9K miles turned me off. But now, the 360 F1 clutches are not doing much better. |
Eric Brigham (Ebrigham)
New member
Username: Ebrigham
Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 1:22 pm: | |
Have you considered getting a new 360 when it gets updated (The 420)? Or is that wait too long for your preference? |
Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member
Username: Stickanddice
Post Number: 389
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 12:12 pm: | |
Be wary of any model at its inception. There are bound to be many problems and oversights.
Personally, I considered a Gallardo and have decided not to go forward with it because EVERYTHING in the car is virtually new design.
Cheers |
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 1257
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 12:05 pm: | |
See them both. Drive them both. Then deceide. |
Dr.John Gober (Drjohngober)
New member
Username: Drjohngober
Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2003 - 12:03 pm: | |
I am thinking about getting on the list for the Gallardo, but it will be hard to justify it and my beloved F1 360. What are your views?
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