| Author | Message | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
New member Username: Minuke Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2003 |
At one time I wanted a Pantera. I have heard so many horror stories I have decided to save my money and buy a pre-owned F-car. I still like Pantera's I am just a little afraid of them. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1370 Registered: 3-2001 |
My brother has owned his Pantera for 25 years and loves it. It's had issues but nothing like some of the F-stories I've read here. It has a reliable 351, it uses the ZF tranny which is rock solid (and was also used in Ford GT40's). It sure won't cost you $25K to rebuild the engine. And the 30K maint won't run you $5,000, nor does the engine need to be pulled. I think they're great cars. | ||
| Oldslow308 (Djparks)
Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 407 Registered: 2-2003 |
Don't worry about the timing chain. The 351 is not an interference engine so even if it did break (which it won't) you won't bend any valves or punch any pistons. The worst that can happen is the chain will get sloppy and change your valve timing while going from acceleration to deacceleration. It might even skip a tooth or two in an EXTREME case and would result in some back firing. Am I missing something here? I don't understand the comments on this thread stating how hard to keep the car running? It's a push rod V8 for gods sake. The engine itself is one of the most basic designs in existance second only to a Chevy small block. It isn't the least bit exotic. Maybe the rest of the systems on the car are the culprit but the engine itself is a no brainer. DJ | ||
| Garth Rodericks (Garth66)
New member Username: Garth66 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
Michael, I recently purchased a 1972 Pantera with 84,000 original miles for under $30K. I've since put over 1,100 miles on it with absolutely no problems. The car looks, runs and shifts great! Prior upgrades include a rebuilt radiator with improved pusher fans, camber locks, Holley carb and Edelbrock manifold, headers and reupholstered seats. By the way, my car is also one of the quietest Pantera's I know of, and the seats are very comfortable. In the next week or so I plan to change the plugs, wires, fluids and upgrade to an electronic ignition - may not be necessary, but it's my standard practice when I buy a car. As far as other maintenance, I've thought about replacing the timing chain for my own "peace of mind," but the engine shows no sign of needing it. Or, maybe I'll just wait a few years and do a complete rebuild at that time. All I expect to do for the next 20-30,000 miles is drive! I've always loved the styling and sound of the Pantera, but I also considered buying a Ferrari 308/328. In the end, I felt the Pantera was better suited to my requirements and preferences. Regardless of what you decide to buy, do your homework! Learn as much as you can about the object of your desire - prices, pitfalls, desireable features/upgrades, maintenance schedule and costs, and insurance (full coverage on my Pantera costs less than on my 89 Mustang convertible). There are some great resources available on the web - check out the links in this thread. Also, join the clubs and get to know other owners (of either marque). Most enthusiasts are more than willing to share their experience and information with you. I owe a debt of gratitude to my fellow "Pantera Club of Northern California" members. In a nutshell, make an informed decision. Feel free to contact me directly if you would like to hear more about my journey to Pantera ownership. Good luck to you! | ||
| Dave Doddek (Davejd)
New member Username: Davejd Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
I dont often join and post to other forums, but I feel I had to here. As some others have said, All Italian cars and in fact All cars have some Good and Bad. The Pantera or Ferrari is no exception. One thing we want to remember, is the Pantera was designed and built in 9 months. Ferraris have been in the production car business for many many years and have Huge dollars to put into research. Is the Pantera Unreliable? It doesnt have to be and it wasnt. All the bad rap the Pantera gets is not really worth it. What breaks so often, no one has said that. I will list those items. Switches - Lucas parts, it is expected and cheap to change. Rear wheel bearings - Poor design, can be fixed completely with a retrofit. Overheats - New Fans on the radiator. Wont start when wet - Newer style Ford distributor cap. Rust - yep, never rustproffed. Find a clean one and rustproof it. Cuts out in corners - change the carb float Transmission needs rebuilt - Keep the clutch adjusted. Bad Brakes - Nope, just not designed for racing. OK, thats it. No other major problems with the car that will prevent it from being a daily driver. Have a friend with only these changes to his car. He drives it all the time with no problems. Many people complain of other problems, but most of them stem from a car being bought as an investment and not driven regularly thus things go bad from age. Other problems are from abuse. Blown engines and trashed trannies and burnt brakes, people can break anything. Panteras dont have to blow engines. Run a stock engine to 5000 rpm or less and it will last for many thousands of miles. Problem is people take 30 year old engines with 60K on them and try and race them at 6000 or 6500 RPM. They break. New engines have a much superior design but will still break when pushed with high mileage. Saw a video of a Guy doing doughnuts in a 308 once and he blew the engine. Does that mean that Ferraris blow engines, NO. Some people I know have many thousands of miles on a Pantera and use it to drive to work Daily. One owner in NM has over 200,000 miles on his Pantera. Recently a new owner drove his across the country on a 9000 mile trip to see some sights. His only problem, a front wheel bearing which had not been regreased in 30 years. I have driven my car across the country and back twice with no problems. Lets hear from Ferrari owners, how many miles are on your cars? How many miles have you driven in one trip? One local 308 owner had his car in for service. Brakes, Belts and a Clutch after only 10,000 miles since new. Cost, $2500 to repair. Are Panteras Modified, Yes. They seem to be considered more of a muscle car than an exotic. How many stock 69 Camaros do you see? I can only believe the only reason some of the other exotic cars are not modified is only because of dollars. Do all Panteras have $60K - $100K in modifications. Not at all, infact few do. Most cars only have some fun stuff like Springs, shocks, wheels, and a hot engine which can cost as little as $5K. My car has a twin turbo engine and some other fun stuff and I have less than $25K in modifications, yet it will easily hit 185mph, corner at 1G, and run 10s in the quarter mile. So are Panteras slow? The stock Pantera 30 years ago would run 155 mph and run the Quarter in 14 seconds at nearly 100 mph. They would out handle most cars on the road at the time and on Bias ply tires. Dont compare a 30 year old performing car to a 2002 550 or Enzo. They can be made to perform. Just ask a group of F40 ownwers who watched as Gary Hall passed them at Pocono during the 4th of july gathering several years back. The F40 has an exotic engine with twin turbos, race designed chassis. Gary had a nearly stock chassis Pantera with slicks and a Pushrod V8 with a Holley carb. I also know one owner in Chicago who at one time owned a 308, a Dino, a Daytona, a Testerosssa, and a 84 Pantera. He said out of all cars, the Pantera was the fastest and most fun to drive, although the Testerossa was the most comfortable. Currently he only still owns the Daytona and the Pantera. I am by far no expert in any car brand, but what I do know is even a new car can break down, You drive what you like, and you dont believe everything you read without researching. I dont own a Ferrari, but would I, Sure, I would have several models, if I could afford it. | ||
| gary green (Minuke)
New member Username: Minuke Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
A friend of mine had a Pantera for 10 year's before he sold it 1 year ago. It was the first model year they made. The car was basically stock except for added well flares. Mine you the car is 30 year's old, it did have it's share of problems. By the time my friend sold the car all the bug's were worked out. If you want to buy a Pantera, get one with the latest upgrades. | ||
| Matt Wells (Nwpantera)
New member Username: Nwpantera Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
F-cars and P-cars, apples and oranges! Both have their strong points. I've always loved Ferraris and they are one of the reasons for my passion for Italian cars.The one glaring difference is the Panteras appeal to those that love the sound and power of a thumping V-8,limited only by the owners immagination. It's that certain unrefined element mixed with a 32 year old Italian design most find timeless that makes it,IMHO the best of both worlds. | ||
| CJE (Catman351)
New member Username: Catman351 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
Mike/Taters: I have had my Pantera for over 3-4 years now, 2 years of that devoted towards restoring that car. Prior to that, I have had NO experience with restoring cars other than changing out the radiator on a 93 Honda Civic. I can tell you despite the blood/sweat/tears I have encountered with the Pantera, I have thoroughly enjoyed it! I was basically a "one man tech session". At the time of my resto, I was living in Los Osos, CA. This set me fairly far apart from by fellow Pantera bretheren in NorCal and SoCal (where the larger concentration of Pcar owners could be found). But thanks to e-mail and the internet, I kept in constant comms with those folks. Without them, I don't think I would have been able to do my 1 man operation in Los Osos. Back to the car: She was running but had the usual rust problems mentioned on this thread. I had to basically learn how to do some of the major operations myself to include welding, pulling out old bushings and installing new ones, learning about parts substitutions, rebuilding the entire electrical system, and cutting out the old metal and doing sheet metal fabrication (thanks to my other hobby of radio restoration). The harder stuff like fixing the transaxle, engine work, powdercoating, painting, and other machine work I farmed out to some Pantera and non-Pantera vendors. The end result was my first trip to Las Vegas in 2002 during the Pantera Owners Club of America meet. I have attended "last years" 2003 POCA convention and intend to keep on doing so far as I'm allowed! But in my opinion, what helps with collector car ownership? In my opinion, it's the ownership side of the mark. As with any organization, you have you're usual A-H's but by and large, a good group can help you with your car in the long run. I found a very ferociously loyal bunch in the Pantera group and that a great impact on my ownership of the car I call "#2428" (the last four digits of the VIN number of the Pantera). Not that I don't like F-cars! I hope one day to own a 330 GTC or 308 and hope that the same cameraderie I experienced with the Pantera owners could be found with the Ferrari car owners. But a good car club definitely helps in your car owning experience whatever marque you decide to go for. Good luck! Cal | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1885 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yea Matt, you're right. See ya ! ;-) | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 85 Registered: 12-2002 |
I've never said they didn't have their quirks. But I have defended them against your posts that say they need major fixes to be useable. You've more than shown what kind of person you are. Not once have I made personal attacks against you, but here you are talking about other posters being my "girlfriend", that I have low self esteem, am boring, and a poseur. All because you don't know anything about Panteras. I want everyone here to take note on your beloved JRV. A guy who apparently has never owned, much less worked on, ANY Panteras, yet considers himself an expert on them. All that and he feels he needs to call people names because he knows this is true. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1883 Registered: 11-2002 |
Matt, you're denial about Panteras is very boring, you're obviously a posuer, with low self esteem. I like lots of cars including Ferraris, Panteras, Lamborghinis, etc., but that doesn't mean I have to be BLIND to their quirks and drawbacks. | ||
| Mike Dailey (Mike_dailey)
New member Username: Mike_dailey Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hay guys this �Taters� person has done the same thing on a number of other forums. He asks what appears to be an innocent question and then stands back and watches the fireworks! Some kind of Internet forum hobby person. But as long as the subject came up, all Italian exotic cars have their good and bad points and the Pantera shares many of its parts with other Italian exotics, e.g. speedometer, tach, radiator cooling fans (512) taillights (Bora and others), relays, the German made transaxle (Bora). Of course all that stuff works just like all great Italian engineered parts! I own a Pantera and like it just fine http://www.panteraplace.com/ | ||
| Mark (Mjdracing)
New member Username: Mjdracing Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
You can also get some info at http://www.panteracars.com/ or http://64.70.166.243/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi | ||
| Will (Will)
New member Username: Will Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
Michael, You really need to contact a local Pantera group. Post a message on the Pantera List. http://pantera.hottr6.com/forum.html should tell you how. Someone in your area would be glad to let you ride/touch/etc. to your heart's content. Some would even let you drive. They may also know about unadvertised Panteras for sale. I bought my Pantera in December. Since then I've done normal maintenance - oil, wires, plugs, etc. The car sat for 14 years in a barn, so it needed some extra work - new window motors, new dist. Nothing too weird. It has the original cooling with spal fans. It doesn't overheat in Houston. There are a few Pantera specific gotchas, but there are easy work arounds. It's just not that hard to work on. The ergonomics of the interior are a little weird, but it's more comfortable than my wife's Porsche. I haven't driven it near the limit, so I haven't experienced any "weird" handling. As I'm sure you've noticed, people either love it or hate it. You have to decide that one for yourself. The best way to do that is to get some seat time. Oh, and for $$'s. Expect to pay around $20K for a decent driver. Expect to spend around $30K for a "like-new" rocket. Expect to pay no more than you would for a 71-74 Mustang for maintenance. Anyone that spends $60-$100K on a Pantera is doing it because they can, not because they have to. | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 84 Registered: 12-2002 |
So it's your contention that because such extensive after-market Pantera parts exist, that the car was broke to begin with? Once again you show you have no clue when it comes to Panteras. LOL indeed. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1879 Registered: 11-2002 |
<<Thats a sweet no-link Master Mechanic.<< You have a twin that posts on this board also don't ya !! Maybe they deleted it after it turned into a flame thread with your girlfriend "tater tot". If not find it yourself, echoed everything I mentioned below about being rolling test beds, that spawned an entire aftermarket industry to make them useable. LOL | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 83 Registered: 12-2002 |
Thats a sweet no-link Master Mechanic. So again, tell everyone how many Panteras you've owned and the problems you've had with them. And do tell us about the extensive Pantera shop work you've done as well. We're just lowly commoners, who pale in comparrison to your 30+ years of knowledge. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1866 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hey Ghostrider aka Matt, Read it and weep sport!!! They mimmick "Every Thing" I mentioned below and then some!!! From A PANTERA BOARD !!! http://64.70.166.243/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000466.html So I believe there can be alot said for 30+ yrs experience with Exotic Cars !!! | ||
| Rodney Haas (Icars)
Member Username: Icars Post Number: 328 Registered: 3-2002 |
It's simple that the small 12s and 8s don't have the torque that the Pantera has. My Masarati Indy will out torgue my Ferrari V12 anyday of the week. Again the Maserati has a high compression 4.7 litre V8. I will also take exception with anybody who says a Pantera is not reliable. It's just like any other 30 year old car. Once you have it sorted no problem. I know plenty of people who drive their cars on a regular basis. | ||
| Al Johnson (Bigal)
Junior Member Username: Bigal Post Number: 100 Registered: 3-2002 |
I'll have to get a ride in one of the local 550s to compare power and torque with the Pantera. Be interesting to see the differences. I drove a Porsche Turbo Carrera years ago and found the differnces in power delivery very interesting. The Porsche had power but it took a while for the turbo to kick in but boy once it did, Man! I equated it to pouring a bucket of water; at first a little comes out and then it all comes. | ||
| martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Intermediate Member Username: Mw575 Post Number: 1058 Registered: 5-2001 |
Al, No ,never drove one. | ||
| Al Johnson (Bigal)
Junior Member Username: Bigal Post Number: 99 Registered: 3-2002 |
martin, ever driven a Pantera? Its got one hell of a lot of torque and gobs of right now power. It doesn't have to wind up to its power band; its power band is as soon as you mash on the accel pedal. | ||
| martin j weiner,M.D. (Mw575)
Intermediate Member Username: Mw575 Post Number: 1057 Registered: 5-2001 |
Keith, Hope you enjoy the 355 as much as I did-it's a great car and mine(97) was reliable. 360 was even better and now the 575 is a marvellous machine with mind blowing torque. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1898 Registered: 10-2002 |
Matt I agree that if you know what you're getting involved with they're a lot of bang for the buck. I know someone who solved the rust problem by using his as a basis for a GT40 replica. He found a co that makes a fiberglass body that fit. As his was a legal donor it was easy to register and insure as opposed to a kit car. | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 82 Registered: 12-2002 |
This is my last post on this topic. I don't fiddle with my car all the time. I'm a driver. I spend far more time driving my Pantera than working on it. I know guys whos Panteras run fine too, but they are hot-rodders, like a lot of Pantera owners, and can't resist playing with it. This is not a Ferrari, you aren't going to hurt the value by customizing it. And a 308 can't be owned and maintend for the same price as a Pantera, not even close. It's also quite a bit newer than the Pantera, yet still is not superior. Go ahead, take a 308 up against a Pantera on the track, each with competent drivers. Done. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1339 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>The guys that put a lot of money in their cars would be putting lots of money in to whatever they owned.<< Not true. They own other vintage cars, with the exception of one of the guys, that run comparatively better. And one of the other vintage cars is a Jaguar XK120, which is what I've also heard described as a "reliability nightmare". >>They like fiddling with them.<< So it's probably not the right car who for someone who doesn't want to "fiddle" and just wants to drive. >>Just because someone has 30 years of experience in exotic cars does not make them a Pantera expert.<< Unless they've worked with Panteras in that time. >>But it is also far more good than bad.<< Agree. People take these posts a bit too seriously. When you analyze something for purchase and you are leaning on towards it, it would be good to know the good the bad the ugly. I wouldn't want to jump into a purchase until I hear all the nasty bits. >>No other car is like it for the money. Probably never will be again.<< Disagree. I think there are plenty of other cars that are priced below what they should. Since we are in a Ferrari chatroom, a 308 is a perfect example in my opinion. Cheers | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 81 Registered: 12-2002 |
Belive what you will. I own a Pantera. I've been around lots of them. I talk to owners all over the world every day. The guys that put a lot of money in their cars would be putting lots of money in to whatever they owned. They like cars. They like fiddling with them. Just because someone has 30 years of experience in exotic cars does not make them a Pantera expert. The Pantera is not perfect. But it is also far more good than bad. No other car is like it for the money. Probably never will be again. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1338 Registered: 11-2002 |
Matt, Mosey on over to the Tech section and to the Tech Archives and see JR's contributions. They're usually the problem solving post on the entire thread. The guy has something like 30 years in the exotic car world fixing and prepping and restoring the things. As for the 30 year old thing... My dad has cars that are closer to 60 years old and they never miss a beat. Why? They are properly sorted and exercised. Poor fit and finish or engineering is exactly that. That is why you always find a trend in problems with some old cars. They have their weak points. From my experience with Panteras (knowing 3 people who own them, granted not much), they have a lot of problems. This is a forum for people to post their opinions or experiences. These opinions should be taken for what they are and weighed accordingly. Cheers | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 80 Registered: 12-2002 |
The number of posts does not equate to knowledge of any kind, including Pantera knowledge. I'll put Keith's Pantera and mechanical knowledge up against anyone's. He knows what he is talking about. Panteras are only money pits if thats what you want them to be. Again, they are THIRTY YEARS OLD. ANY old car can have continuous money poured into it, especially if upgrading to modern components. | ||
| Rodney Haas (Icars)
Member Username: Icars Post Number: 315 Registered: 3-2002 |
Keith, Good to see that you are going for the Ferrari. One thing though, you need to show up @ Ferrari events with the Ferrari not the viper  Rodney http://www.maffiacarclub.com | ||
| Al Johnson (Bigal)
Junior Member Username: Bigal Post Number: 98 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have to chime in here as an owner of both a Pantera and a Ferrari, as well as a Triumph TR8. (Must be someting about V8s in foreign cars.) I love both the P and the F and yet they are very different cars. I have owned the P since '88 and it is essentially stock. Yes, I've had repair bills, but so have I had on my other cars and my old truck. The bottom line of the P v.F issue is that the P will blow the doors off a 308 and up to a 348 (maybe more, haven't tried), but the Fs will leave it behind in the corners and over long distance. Funny, the guy who started this tread's profile doesn't exist anymore. | ||
| Keith Verges (Kverges)
New member Username: Kverges Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2003 |
Whoops! If JRV is technically knowledgeable and usually makes constructive posts, my apologies. He did no such thing here, though. A bad Pantera can be a bad experience and they must be developed to be daily driveable. But an offhand slam of the Pantera is as useless as a slam of any other car. I am putting my money where my mouth is and trying a Ferrari. They sure are gorgeous and probably the pinnacle of exotica in terms of heritage and recognition. Now to see if they can also provide reliable transportation . . . . | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Intermediate Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 1326 Registered: 11-2002 |
Keith, You just called one of the most technically knowledgeable people on this board a potential troll. Hahahaha! Considering you only have 4 posts and JRV has around 1700 that's laughable. I know a couple of Pantera nuts. They love their cars but confess it is a nightmare to keep running right. One I know quite well and speak to often. My first post on this thread describes his feelings on the car. He is on his third car. Every one of them a money pit. Thankfully not a money pit as a poor Ferrari could prove to be, but definitely a lot of money and heartache. As for driving impressions, Derek Bell didn't have many good things to say about the car aside from the visceral experience of having an engine inches from your head that's screaming a nice sound. On a more personal note, my friend claims "it handles wierd" (verbatim). He has driven most of the modern exotica and a Countach, 70s 930 Turbo, a couple of older V12 Ferraris, and tons of Jaguars, as contemporary (kind of) comparisons. Cheers | ||
| Keith Verges (Kverges)
New member Username: Kverges Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2003 |
Poor Matt is almost the sole voice in favor of the Pantera. Whoever JRV is, he appears to know nothing specific and I guess he thinks he is funny. Perhaps he is just another troll hiding behind an internet "handle." I have owned a Pantera for 13 years and sold it a couple of years ago to a friend who continues to enjoy it. Take all of the specific advice in this thread to heart; buy a fully-sorted car, inspect carefully for rust, and frankly the cooling system should be updated. It is not a "kit car" and the ZF transaxle can be rebuilt locally here for about $1500 plus parts (which can be expensive). The ZF is extremely robust and was in fact used in the GT40 for endurance racing. A friend of mine who drag raced his Pantera (ack!) used to mount slicks, rev the car to 6000, and drop the clutch while hitting the nitrous - he never broke the driveline parts! The thing that is commonly worn in the ZF is the synchros, because the clutch is often improperly adjusted and drags between shifts, causing excessive synchro wear. I did all of the standard cooling and other updates to mine (and yes I spent a bunch of money over time), I vintage raced it and did the One Lap of America in it in 1995 with no DNFs and finishing a pretty close second in the Vintage Imported class behind a well driven BMW M1. Robert Woodhouse of Blair NE had multiple podium finished in the SCCA Solo Nationals and the car can handle with updated springs, shocks, swaybars and moder wheels & tires. The philosphy of the Pantera is worlds apart from the Ferrari; if you like the hot rod experience and the rumble of big displacement V8s, the Pantera is for you. I will always have a warm spot in my heart for the Pantera and the Pantera club folks are the best. I can't say anything about the Ferrari experience; I am about to embark on 355 ownership, and hope it is as good (in a 25 year newer car) as was the Pantera, as I intend to daily drive the 355. I can say that I think it is assinine engineering (presumably intended to support a dealer network) that a 30,000 mile service to replace cam belts requires R&R of the engine. The only thing more stupid is my willingness to put up with it and buy the car anyway. My new-to-me 355 has the 30K service and better not need much more than gas & oil over the next year or so. It just appeals to my poseur side and is a nice-driving car for an exotic. Keith Verges Dallas, TX | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2002 |
"Shattering performance and spectacularly good looks are just two of the attributes which put the Pantera fairly and squarely in the "supercar" bracket" Auto Test A Successor For The Ford GT40 MK III? Autocar, December 1972 "Cars with performance that slams you back into the seat and sets your senses reeling are mostly only memories in these days of emission controls fundamental concerns about fuel consumption. Nonetheless our irrepressible Engineering Editor, Dennis Simanaitis, has witnessed the resurrection of a true muscle car. The de Tomaso Pantera is back" Return of The Pantera Road and Track, January 1981 "It really is sharp-looking machine, and quite nicely appointed inside. I like the gated ZF five speed gearbox, and the engine really delivers a tremendous amount of torque. It�s a real boy racer. The road handling is quite good and the brakes are superb" Sterling Moss PM's Million Dollar Car Test. The Pantera was the top rated car. Popular Mechanics, March 1981 The 50 Best in 50 Years, Fastest and Most Outrageous, The Pantera is number 32 on the list! The 50 Best, Fastest and Most Outrageous Motor Trend, 50th Anniversary, September 1999 "Enthusiasts have long acknowledged that the Pantera was way ahead of its time, as was the work of its designer, Tom Tjaarda. You can't get a more interesting mid-engine V-8 powered exotic for the money, with the exception of a Ferrari 308. But if you buy the Ferrari, don't go choosing off a Pantera at the light. You'll be sorry." De Tomaso Pantera, In Retrospective Motor Trend, June 2001, Matt Stone | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2002 |
Have you ever OWNED one? Ever been part of a Pantera club? | ||
| Richard Muck (Mark_iv)
New member Username: Mark_iv Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2003 |
I have driven, worked on and sold parts for Panteras. They are neat looking cars and have some good features BUT remember they are an Italian car that was BUILT TO A PRICE!!! The handling is only fair for a mid-engined car, the assembly quality is questionable and the ergonomics are horrid! Other than that it is really neat car! If you know what you are getting going in, you should be OK. Just understand that it is a "pre-assembled kit car" Rick | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2002 |
I have a stock radiator and stock fans. Never overheated. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 268 Registered: 8-2002 |
Rust is the biggest issue as most have some and it seems to be a reoccurring problem A ZF transaxle rebuild will cost $7000.00 There are upgrades but stock Panteras have overheating problems Their are many mods and upgrades from SVO Ford race engines to 4 valve V8s so parts are not a problem | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 1247 Registered: 3-2001 |
My brother has a '74 L and has owned it since about '76. He loves it. It's much more agressive looking than the 308/328. BTW, as far as I know, there is no such thing as a "stock" Pantera. All have been upgraded and most have pretty extensive engine mods. | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
New member Username: Pantera Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2003 |
Matt, Thank's for all your imput. It is amazing to me that so many people are involved in a low production 30 year old car! | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2002 |
I guess that depends on what you call an expert. There are several vendors who have years of experience in the biz. There is Hall Pantera (www.hallpantera.com), Pantera East (http://www.mapenterprises.net/pe/), Pantera's by Wilkinson (www.panterasbywilkinson.com), Pantera Pro-Formance (http://www.precisionproformance.com/), Pantera Parts Connection (www.panteraparts.com), Pantera Motorsports (www.pim.net), and more even. Your best bet would be to go to http://realbig.com/detomaso and join the Pantera email list, and for sure joining the national club (www.panteraclub.com), and hopefully a chapter in your area. Ownership of a Pantera is not a requirement. I joined well before I bought one to learn all I could prior. www.panteraplace.com has a lot of good info too | ||
| Tony Roberts (Pantera)
New member Username: Pantera Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2003 |
Matt, Who are the expert's on Pantera's in the U.S.A. | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2002 |
A stock Pantera is fine if thats what a person wants. But technology advances. If a person wants better brakes, better radiators, AC compressors, carbs, etc., then they are easily there for a Pantera. Most Pantera owners like upgrades because they can improve the car. It doesn't mean it's broke, it means there are better alternatives with today's technology. Is that so hard to understand? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1696 Registered: 11-2002 |
Oh Matt, Does the following sound familiar? Which is it, needs nothing or needs everything? ;-). >>Keeping a Pantera original will no have no significant impact on resale value. Matter of fact, a bone stock, all original Pantera will probably be much harder to sell, as most Panteras have upgraded brakes, AC, radiators, etc. There is no "best year" to buy. In terms of bone stock, yes, the Pantera decreased in power over the years due to US restrictions, but most everyone has tuned their engines beyond these restrictions over the years.<< | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2002 |
In the past two years I've had mine, I've put in a new clutch ($300), new alternator ($100), and a voltage regulator ($35). The alternator and regulator I was able to do myself. Thats all the "fix them, and fix them" I've had to do. But please, do tell us, in all the Panteras you've owned, what problems have you had JRV? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1695 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>And a lot of times if you have the know-how, you can fix them yourself<< and fix them, and fix them, and fix them, and fix them, and fix them...a Fixer Uppers Dream come true. ;-) | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2002 |
And a lot of times if you have the know-how, you can fix them yourself, without having to pay Master Mechanic prices. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1694 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>With several Pantera vendors available in the US, you can get ANYTHING you need for a Pantera.<< >>And if you happen to blow up the motor you can drop a new one in for less than it costs to have a Ferrari mechanic change the timing belts on a 308.<< I always enjoy hearing the Beauty of Panteras...no matter how often they break & blow engines, parts vendors are availible at Ford prices..;-)..and you can even shop at Pic-A-Part for engine upgrades...;-)..Now That's Kool! | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1693 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>>Of course the world's longest running automotive design and marketing concept award goes to the Vector! << Arlie, are you the guy that started the rumour that the first 5 Vectors were all the same car repainted different colors 5 times? Well here is proof there are at least 2 different cars...;-).  | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2002 |
With several Pantera vendors available in the US, you can get ANYTHING you need for a Pantera. | ||
| Edward (Edward_96gts)
New member Username: Edward_96gts Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2002 |
buy fully restored stock Pantera. Preferably early small front bumper. Best sounding exhaust ever on a stock car. orange color is very striking. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 842 Registered: 5-2001 |
Michael, I would highly recommend you get involved with the Pantera club and learm as much as you can from owners. I have met three guys with Panteras and would not knock them, they are cool cars. They are beautiful and powerful,BUT.....here's the deal: Listen to JRV, he is a real "technician" and knows these cars, each of the three owners I have met were guys that were not afraid of working on their cars, and they are all highly modified from original. Rust is a real problem, I don't think they had any rust proofing from the factory. While engine mechanicals may be easier to fix/repair, tracking down many of the interior bits and exterior trim can be much harder. The other posts here are not that far off the mark, there are a lot of POS Panteras out there. The reason is that the typical buyer has heard the same as you, "parts and service are more reasonable"; unfortunately, that more often than not, means "cheap owner". Which turns into a car with deferred maintanence and neglected cosmetics. I love Panteras, but would not get one myself. If you are serious, join the club and get involved. Your best bet would be to buy a well sorted car from a devoted member of the marque... | ||
| michael Alpert (Taters)
New member Username: Taters Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2003 |
Daryl, Thank you for your insight on this matter. I feel you are much more informed on this subject than the others who answered this thread. Thanks Again | ||
| Daryl Adams (Daryl)
New member Username: Daryl Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2001 |
Michael - Here's the real deal. Don't listen to all the self-appointed "experts" and nay-sayers who slam the Pantera. They are usually people who have never owned a Pantera, or they have second hand opinions from someone who had a bad experience after buying a "bargain" Pantera. I have two Ferraris and a DeTomaso Mangusta, which is considerably more rare and theoretically harder to maintain than a Pantera. I LOVE the thing. Is it a refined, comfortable car to drive? Hell no. It's an adventure! The Pantera is similar. Gobs of torque, major accelleration, and a great, gutsy engine note. And if you happen to blow up the motor you can drop a new one in for less than it costs to have a Ferrari mechanic change the timing belts on a 308. The key is to get a GOOD car. They are out there. You need to do your homework, know what upgrades are needed, and be prepared to pay for the very best car you can afford. Check out the Pantera Owner's Club website (www.panteraclub.com) They have a scrapbook section with photos of members cars. It's a great network of very supportive car people. What ever needs to be done on these cars - they've done it. And for what it's worth, my Mangusta generates much more conversation at the gas station than my Dino Spyder. People are very interested in DeTomasos, and less intimidated by them than they are Ferraris. Anyway, that's my opinion as an owner of both. | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
Junior Member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2002 |
The biggest concern for Panteras is to make sure they have had drain holes drilled into the frame. If not, due to the monocoque construction, water can get trapped in there and rust. Mine was restored a few years ago and only found to have one quarter-sized area on the rocker panel of rust. | ||
| Dr. J C928 (Attitude928)
New member Username: Attitude928 Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2002 |
Certain Italian bodied cars rust more than others: e.g.s certain Scaglietti- bodied Ferraris, Lambo Isleros, Jensen Interceptors, Lancia Fulvias, Giulietta Spider, Alfa & Alfetta GTV's,... | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 50 Registered: 12-2002 |
What "For Sale" section? And no, mine is not for sale. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1620 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ghostrider, is that 'your' Pantera in the "For Sale" section? ;-) | ||
| Keith Maxwell (Keith_maxwell)
New member Username: Keith_maxwell Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2003 |
My only experience with a Pantera was chasing one down the front straight at Summit Point. About 100 feet from the braking zone the windshield of my vette was coated with oil and parts started raining on me. It blew it's engine in spectacular fashion and I nearly lost it taking the runoff rather than risking the hairpin with oil all over my tires. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Member Username: Davel Post Number: 273 Registered: 7-2001 |
"Panteras never need new owners....they just need new wallets." Other than maybe the NSX this applies to any Exotic  | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2002 |
As you would with any 30 year old Italian car. | ||
| Dr. J C928 (Attitude928)
New member Username: Attitude928 Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2002 |
Watch out for RUST | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1168 Registered: 5-2002 |
"Panteras are the worlds longest running experimental rolling test beds." Of course the world's longest running automotive design and marketing concept award goes to the Vector! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3755 Registered: 9-2001 |
I think they are pretty cool - sure they have their issues but what exotic doesn't | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2002 |
Please, give me a break. You've got to be joking. Sure, SOME people have done that to their cars, but that is extremely rare. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1582 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>find one that someone has already sunk money into.<< every one of them has had $60K-$80K-$100K sunk into them... Panteras never need new owners....they just need new wallets. ;-) | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2002 |
Oh God, they're not that bad. But they did start 30 years ago, and as with any car that old, things will fail. The car went from the drawing board to the road in 9 months, as Ford put heavy pressure on DeTomaso to get it out much sooner than he wanted (they were trying to beat other domestic mid-engined cars to the US market [Corvette--never happened, AMC AMX--never happened]). What problems there were in the begining were fixed by Ford, for free, and upgraded over the years by Pantera owners themselves. Yes, they can be hot. Black interior, windshield very close to your face. Mine has tan interior, so I've got that added cooler factor, but the sun is right there. Still love driving it though. Plus, it does have AC (upgraded to rotary). Bottom line, find one that someone has already sunk money into. You'll save a lot of money down the road. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1574 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>A buddy of mine in NYC had one and had nothing but complaints about it. Reliability was horrendous on the thing. Even when fixed "right" the car would always be problematic. It was also an uncomfortable car to drive. It gets very hot in that cockpit and it handled weird.<< AMEN to all that.... Panteras are the worlds longest running experimental rolling test beds. An entire Industry was created to try and get a few miles between re-engineering projects...and the work still continues to this day. | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 568 Registered: 11-2002 |
A buddy of mine in NYC had one and had nothing but complaints about it. Reliability was horrendous on the thing. Even when fixed "right" the car would always be problematic. It was also an uncomfortable car to drive. It gets very hot in that cockpit and it handled weird. By the way, not my opinion's but a friend who owned one. I have yet to drive one, but my 2 cents are to get the early ones before they added all the spoilers and weird bumpers. The early Tjaarda design is very nice indeed. Cheers | ||
| Doug meredith (Dougm)
Member Username: Dougm Post Number: 302 Registered: 2-2001 |
Except for the engine, Pantera's parts can be expensive too. However, they are fun to drive and get lots of compliments. My reccommendation, figure what you want first(from original to modified), and then go buy a car where someone else spent $$. Do not buy a fixer upper. I owned mine for 15 months and drove it 5000 miles with under $400 in repairs. It was a 396" stroker with fuel injection. Speedo cable broke, new clutch slave cyl, master cyl. rebuild, and some other easy minor fixes. I think the same can be done with a Ferrari. Find one with a fresh major service that has been well kept and you should be able to enjoy it for little $. There are some great sites for the Pantera with a lot of support. | ||
| michael Alpert (Taters)
New member Username: Taters Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2003 |
AS much as I love Ferraris the maintanence is very expensive.I am now leaning towards a Pantera because the parts and service are more resonable.Does anyone you know have both, I would like to hear about it! |