| Author | Message | ||
| Taek-Ho Kwon (Stickanddice)
Junior Member Username: Stickanddice Post Number: 150 Registered: 11-2002 |
About Lamborghini... The first production Lamborghini was indeed the 350GT. There were prototypes (350 GTV being the first, with body by Scaglione). They were alloy bodied (Superleggera by Touring) and had a great V12. From my understanding they were indeed more reliable than Ferrari, that is until Feruccio sold his shares of the company shortly after the Miura. They were losing money while creating these machines. Ferrari and Lamborghini having a feud about the reliability of Ferrari's sports cars has been discounted by many sources already, although it does make for a cool story. Lamborghini wanted to build supercars because he wanted his name on the best cars on the road and he thought it would be quite profitable. Simple enough. He recruited people out of Ferrari (Giotto Bizzarini of Ferrari 250 GTO fame) and Maserati (Giampaolo Dallara, Paolo Stanzani, and test driver Bob Wallace of New Zealand). The list reads like an all star team, which it was. The 350GT, 400GT, 400GT 2+2, and Miura are in my opinion some of the best cars of their era. | ||
| MFZ (Kiyoharu)
Junior Member Username: Kiyoharu Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2003 |
Someone mentioned B Engineering. Their car is the B Engineering Edonis, and one of the technology partners is Michelin. They plan to use Michelin's PAX system (tires that can run 60 mph safely even when punctured) on those cars. Unfortunately there will be only 21 cars to be made, supposedly because it's to mark the 21st century. One of the men behind the Edonis project used to be on the Ferrari F40 engineering team. Name was Nicola Materazzi I believe. | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2002 |
Can you fill us in on the details? Stories? | ||
| Joe C (Italiancars)
New member Username: Italiancars Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2003 |
Most of the rumors about the DeTomaso sale of Maserati to Fiat come from people that don�t know the facts of what really transpired. I sat in on shareholder meetings at the time. My wife even told DeTomaso that he should slow down or he was going to have a heart attack. Less than a week later he had the stroke that is still very evident to this day. The true story behind it would make a great novel or better yet an HBO movie. Lets just say that DeTomaso makes Donald Trump look like an amateur when it comes to negotiating a deal. Lee Iacoca once said that he wished he had 15 negotiators like DeTomaso. And Iacoca should know, after the number DeTomaso did on him over the building of the Chrysler TC. But that was noting compared to what he did to Rimiti and FIAT. That probably would have gone down as the automotive screwing of the 90s if not for the Piech/VW attempt to purchase Rolls Royce fiasco. | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2002 |
I asked our DeTomaso national magazine editor, and this is what he had to say: While POCA (Pantera Owners Club of America) members think of DeTomaso strictly as the builder of their automobiles, he is widely known in Italy as being an extremely shrewd and successful industrialist, with diverse holdings in a variety of companies. He was particularly adept at securing government financing to rescue motor vehicle companies teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, and then turning these companies around. During the early �70�s, he did so with the Benelli and Moto Guzzi motorcycle works, and in 1975, he purchased an ailing Maserati from an equally ailing Citroen, for the giveaway price of 210,000 lire, or about $80. In the deal of the century, Citroen agreed to let DeTomaso have the Maserati name and all holdings, while Citroen got to keep Maserati�s existing $5,000,000 debt. (That was in 1975, BTW) ==== Now, as to the end--I distinctly recall him selling his 49 percent share of the company for 52 million dollars in 1990--the company was NOT bankrupt at the time as far as I know. Fiat got the 49 percent from De Tomaso in 1990 and bought the rest from De Tomaso in 1993 (I forget what that amount was, but it was more, I think). | ||
| Rodney Haas (Icars)
Junior Member Username: Icars Post Number: 120 Registered: 3-2002 |
My understanding through the Maserati crowd was that DeTomaso bankrupted the company. The Italian government sold the company to FIAT not DeTomaso. In the final year or so of Maserati's production it was actually being bankrolled by the English import of Maseratis. DeTomaso had very little to do with it, other than some assembly. Last time we toured the DeTomaso factory in 99 they still had several brand new Masreatis laying around. Evidently these cars were build from "spare parts" Marci toured Detamso last year with Mrs. DeTamso and saw their newest production item. They are putting in A/C & motors .. in a Russian SUV for the European market. At least as of last year. Rodney | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2002 |
The story I heard was that DeTomaso paid about one DOLLAR for Maserati, purchasing it from Citroen in the early 70's, and then sold it to Fiat for something on the order of 62 million dollars back in the mid 90's. | ||
| Rodney Haas (Icars)
Junior Member Username: Icars Post Number: 119 Registered: 3-2002 |
Yes I mean the Hawk Replica imported by Jeff Davidson who is a member of fcat. Rodney | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2372 Registered: 12-2000 |
Rodney, you mean the Hawk replicas? P.S. This is off-topic, but from my memory, this has been one of longest running active threads on FC. Check out the date in the first post... | ||
| Rodney Haas (Icars)
Junior Member Username: Icars Post Number: 117 Registered: 3-2002 |
Okay I have been reading this thread for a while not for some input. 1) You can purchase a really nice Merak for less than 20K. I have seen several go for more like 15K. For the price it compare very nicely with a 308. 2) Maserati Parts are not hard to get and not all that expensive. You simply have to know where to get them. You don't buy parts for a GT car from MIE. You purchase parts from Campana in Modena. Campana has the original factory stock of parts for the GT cars. They actually had new in the factory package turn signals for my Indy. If your tour their facility you will find things like brand new doors for 3500s etc. 3) I don't know that DeTomaso "sold" Maserati for a hefty price. He @ times sold off parts to certain suckers and then took them back. He eventually killed the company. 4) DeTomaso always put off the shelf motors in cars. Most of his cars had Ford motors. Which is quite amazing considering his wife is heiress to the GM fortune. DeTomaso was a play boy from Argentina. He was racing cars in the 50s. His wife was racing under British license. She funded his car manufacturing dreams. She still runs DeTomaso, he is basically a vegetable after a stroke. His mind is still active and he still designs cars, but cannot really speak. The Qvale Mangusta was designed and was supposed to be manufactured by DeTomaso, but Qvale and him had a falling out. We were in Modena the week that this happened in fact. 5) While the ISO is a very cool car, talk about an Orphan! At least you can get engine parts. Now if you want to do rally get a Stratos. While Subura and such win today, Lancia owned the rally sport for many years. There are also several after market very exact Stratos kits available. There is a fellow in Atlanta who imports them to the American market. You can build an ALFA V6 powered car for about 30k. There is also a fellow who striped a Dino of it's engine for one. Rodney Haas http://www.maffiacarclub.com | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
Member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 259 Registered: 6-2002 |
The Pagani does not have a limiter to 150mph, it will do 220mph. | ||
| Dr. J C928 (Attitude928)
New member Username: Attitude928 Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2002 |
Iso Grifo 7 liter: Bertone designed Italian body, Bizzarrrini (a la Ferrari 250 GTO) designed chassis, corvette 427 engine, 65 produced 1968-70, 0-100mph in ~12 sec vs 12.65 for the Daytona, top speed over 275 kph, incredibly safe & crashworthy vehicles. You can service it at your local Sunoco. | ||
| Matt Bradley (Ghostridr)
New member Username: Ghostridr Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2002 |
Speaking of the Merak era, I believe it was around this time the Alejandro DeTomaso bought Maserati in the red, and saved the company during his ownership. DeTomaso turned Maserati back into a money maker, and while not producing the most spectacular of Maseratis, without him, the company would be dead today. He later sold it for a healthy profit. | ||
| Peter Skudder (Psk)
New member Username: Psk Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2002 |
Just had to reply to this error: Quote: [Remember, the Merak has a Citro�n V-6 engine in it (you're trying to buy an Italian car, not french!)! Plus the effective, but never reliable hydraulic braking system (a mushroom button on the floor, which varies braking force by foot pressure, not pedal travel. Very odd system). The Merak does have a pleasant shape though, but parts problems will never end.] The Maserati Merak had a Maserati V6 engine that was effectively the Maserati Bora V8 with 2 cylinders cut off the end, hence it is a 90 degree V6. Yes, Citro�n bought Maserati and added their strange hydraulics to some parts of Maserati's cars, but Citro�n wanted an exotic engine for the Citro�n SM, thus they commisioned Maserati to make this engine. Maserati, as I have already stated, performed a short cut and used the Bora engine as a starting point. Thus the Merak is a Maserati through and through, and the Citro�n SM is an exciting car, helped by an Italian engine  A Merak would be an interesting alternative to the 308 options, apparently they handle well. Anyway just had to correct that mistake. Pete | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 173 Registered: 5-2001 |
They all rust. | ||
| J.Ryan (Exoticdealercom)
New member Username: Exoticdealercom Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2002 |
Oops, you're right. It was the 350GT, 400 GT, 400 GT 2+2, then the Miura. I misinterpreted my sources(BBC special on Lamborghini), this was the car they said was meant to outperform Enzo's cars, so I just assumed this was the first, thanks for the correction. I love the shape of this car! | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 755 Registered: 8-2001 |
350GT production started in 1964. Production of Miuras started in 1966 along with the 400GT, which replaced the 350GT. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 754 Registered: 8-2001 |
Hmmm....I thought the first Lambo car was the 350GT. | ||
| J.Ryan (Exoticdealercom)
New member Username: Exoticdealercom Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ferrari vs. Lamborghini! Well, as the story goes. Ferrucio Lamborghini was origninally successful at building Tractors and Large Industrial A/C Units, while Enzo Ferrari was already famous for his exotic sports cars. While Enzo and Ferruccio had lunch one day, Ferrucio expressed to Enzo that the gearbox in his Ferrari was excessively loud and offered a few suggestions on how to solve the problem. Enzo apparently took offense to the comment and told Ferrucio, "How about you(Ferrucio)stick to making Tractors and I'll make the sportscars!" So the next day Ferrucio set his sights on making the most exotic car in the world. The First Lamborghini....  The Miura P400(pronounced "MYUR-ah"),named after the ferocious fighting bulls of Seville made its first public appearance in chassis form at the 1965 Turin show, and hit the market in 1967. This car was years ahead of everything else ( it would take Ferrari 7 years to come with an equivalent road-car: the Boxer). There were a lot of troubles to solve, and it took nearly a year before the first production cars left the factory, they were delivered in 1967, but it was worth the waiting, the top speed of the car was 273 Km/h. and acceleration from 0 to 100 Km/h. took 5,7 seconds, it was the fastest road legal production car of the world. You can do things for love, you can do things for money, but nothing quite like doing things out of spite! -Ferrucio Lamborghini | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 836 Registered: 6-2001 |
If you want a rally car get an audi! (maybe a mitsu or subaru) | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 508 Registered: 12-2001 |
and don't forget the Delta Integrale! | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1821 Registered: 12-2000 |
Stratos | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Junior Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 166 Registered: 3-2002 |
What was that Lancia model that raced (I believe rallies) either late 70s or early 80s with the Alitalia sponsorship? I remember loving the way that car looked. | ||
| Daryl Adams (Daryl)
New member Username: Daryl Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2001 |
The Pantera was designed with the Ford V8 (351 C.I.), as was the Mangusta before it (289, 302 C.I.). DeTomaso always used off-the shelf engines for his road cars to keep the costs down. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 317 Registered: 9-2001 |
Can you tell me what kind of engine was in Pantera originally, before they put the Ford V8 engine? It sounds strange to me an Italian car with an American engine...? | ||
| Mr. 001 (Racer_001)
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evo magazine praised the Pagani Zonda C12S. While it's German engined it's still pasta at heart. They gave it the Car Of The Year 2001 award. Previously this award was only won by Porsches. About 430 cubic inches of multi valve V12 beefcake. Nice car..... | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Daryl, beautiful car! I always liked the four-headlight version (as you mention in your photo caption). Another one, but out of my league in price: Vallelunga (sweet little car). Hey, lets see some pics of that GT4 of yours! | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
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Daryl, that's a beautiful car! I loved them as a kid. Your web sie really does the car justice and congratulations for the award. | ||
| Daryl Adams (Daryl)
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Peter, since you appreciate some the cars Alessandro DeTomaso has built, you might get a kick out mine. It's one of the original Mangustas. I have a three page photo album on my personal page, http://flashpages.prodigy.net/daryla1. By the way, congratulations on the 308GT4. You have good taste. (I own a '78 GT4!) | ||
| Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
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De Tomaso Pantera, lots of straight line but watch for the bends, boy do those things push! You can do a lot to them, if you're not into originality, as much power as anyone needs, weak wiring, rust prone, gearbox parts getting expensive. For CHEAP Italian fun find an Alfa Guilia Sprint 1600. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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One of my favorites and not at all well known is the Detomaso Deauville. I only saw one of these, ever, in Montreal years ago. It was for sale at John Scotti for pretty cheap. Designed by Tom Tjaarda, very clean and smooth looking designed four-door. | ||
| michael marchese (Bigdog)
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Since we're talking Italian here, Don't forget the ISO GRIFO, with its massive engine, and good design. | ||
| Larry (Larry)
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Peter, forgot to mention; "that was only 4th gear!" | ||
| Larry (Larry)
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i hope they're not as cheap as their name but, didn't want to have to go back for the accel's. which are $20 more. pertronix. they had an epoxy filled and an oil filled. took the oil filled which was the lighter of the two. $35. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Actually, that sounds about right. Which coils are these? | ||
| Larry (Larry)
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Peter, i had my gt4 pulling 7500rpm@130mph(speedo error?) after installing a set of 40,000 volt coils. was hoping to redline it to 7700. maybe w/fresh plugs? still intend to do a dyno test to see what the bhp is at the rear. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Back, before the seventies, they could stick an American lump in a beautiful Italian car and pull it off (within reason). But nowadays, it just doesn't seem the same. Sure Bret, the original deTomaso Mangusta used a 289 in it, what an awesome car! But this? I like the deTomaso Guara better. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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How could I forget the Qvale (pronounced Ka Va Lee) Mangusta, what a mut of a car. Something of an Italian American I guess. That things got problems. $80G for a Mustang engine in an odd looking car that can't make up its mind if it's a hardtop, targa, or convertible. Where do I sign up for one? | ||
| Kenneth Butler (Mondialman)
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60-80++ is great. Drop into 3rd and floor it; sounds nice too! That's where you really get your money's worth. I bet I could beat an NSX in this range. It's the standing start that isn't up to the other cars out there, but again it's okay for my purposes. | ||
| Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
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It is the acceleration at freeway speed (i.e. passing abillity)that I am most interested in...I know the GT/4 is considered highest performance, but how is a Modial at passing capability? thanks! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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COming up to CT from FLA in the 512TR I passed a few semis. my friend likes the way I pass 10 cars in 1 leap, anyways on 1 leap I past a line of trucks & kept going then I looked down after I realized i was passing every1, 130mph, without breaking a sweat  what a great car | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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No, but after my rebuild and once everything is broken in, I'll time it then (it'll be running better then). Euro GT4's were able to do it in 6.5 sec. With no smog equip. to hold me back, I'm sure I can do it. What I love is the instantaneous acceleration on the highway, from 60 to 85+. No down changes, just nail it and she corresponds. I had an occasion when I passed a slow minivan and a Cherokee followed me, but held steady to my tail. Didn't let off, just kept pushing and pushing. "I'm tired of you" as I nailed it and he disappeared into a little speck in my mirror. I looked down at the speedo and was doing a 110mph! "I think I'm far enough away now, yikes!" | ||
| Kenneth Butler (Mondialman)
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Wheelbase is 104.4 inches; about 4" longer than yours, so I can still stuff my kids back there for now; a coupe should handle better due to the stiffness as well as your shorter wheelbase although I'm not complaining. Ever count a 0-60 time? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Ken, a smogged GT4 will more than likely be slower than your Mondial, but a de-smogged one (like mine)...? What's the wheelbase on your Mondial? I think the longer cars give smoother, high speed stability, but shorter gives more nimbleness (but too short makes it squirley). I'm not boasting here, but it is known that the GT4 gives the best all-around handling of all the 308 V-8 series. | ||
| Kenneth Butler (Mondialman)
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My 85 Cabriolet QV 0-60 is a shade under 8 sec when I count 'Mississippi's' but I bet if I really abuse it maybe 7 flat. Maybe. I want to keep my clutch a while longer though. An NSX or Vette will smoke me but that's not the point of the car. A Mondial 8 is 2 valve and slower than me, with an inferior injection system. I assume a 308 QV is faster as it's lighter and smaller but the 2v injected ones are said to be the slowest. Peter thinks his 308GT4 is faster and I wouldn't want to bet against him but it couldn't be by too much (can it?). | ||
| Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
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No British cars! I do like the mondial, local Denver Ferrari dealer has an 82 Coupe I am looking at; just how 'bad' is the performance of a Mondial vs say a GT/4 or GTB? | ||
| Kenneth Butler (Mondialman)
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Mondial Cabriolet! Can't be beat for summer fun even if the "enthusists" complain it's slow. Or a Lotus Europa if you're small and like to tinker...it might as well be Italian as far as goofy design and reliability goes. Plus a fully restored 74 Twin Cam can be had for $12-15k. | ||
| Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
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Thanks for the input!! Looks like if all goes well it will be my original choice - 308 GT/4! (or Mondial...) | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Yes, definitely the GT4 would be a better car. Remember, the Merak has a Citroën V-6 engine in it (you're trying to buy an Italian car, not french!)! Plus the effective, but never reliable hydraulic braking system (a mushroom button on the floor, which varies braking force by foot pressure, not pedal travel. Very odd system). The Merak does have a pleasant shape though, but parts problems will never end. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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sorry that site is www.superformance.co.uk I don't go to it that much and was trying to remember it. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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My neighbor's grandfather used to have a Merek that he bought new and kept until like 5 years ago. It was pretty cool, but I like the Ferraris more. The Ferrari gives me much more emotion, especially older Ferraris when the Scuderia was solely dedicated to making close to race cars. Like William said, Maserati parts are almost humorous to try and find. There are a few places that you can try though if you go that route. www.superformance.uk.com is one of them that restores Maseratis so they probably know where to get parts. Get a Ferrari. The GT4 and later 308s are all much nicer than the Merek. | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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Maser's r cool but finding parts will make looking for old ferrari parts look like a walk to NAPA. I heard 1 guy had to pay $16k for a crank for his Bora , Ouch!!! | ||
| Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
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Any input on Maserati Merek SS? I hope to be in the market in a month or so for an Italian exotic...I hope to have in the area of $25 - $30k to spend, and am leaning very strongly towards a 308 GT/4 but would appreciate input on other options.....my last car was a '69 911S Thanks!! | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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http://www.mhkaye.com/ItalianCars/ Bret , this is the website, if it takes u to a dentist's office click on the corner where it says Italian Cars or something like that the FCA is in on it as r the LOC, MOC, & POCA | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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William, is the Pocono meet that you talk of as in Pocono in Pennsylvania? I live in northern New Jersey so I am always looking forward to anything around me. Is it part of the FCA schedule for the Penn Jersey Region (the one that I belong in)? Thanks, Bret | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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The thing that most impressed me about the Pantera was the visibility out of it. Good rear and blindspot views, low door windows, etc... The V-8 is certainly easy and cheap to maintain. To this day, I only wish I had the money then, because about four years ago at a local auction, a mint example sold for $19000 Cdn, Wow! But now that I have my GT4, I'm glad I waited. The GT4 is definitely a more practical car and the performance suits me fine! | ||
| Jeff Cooper (Coop)
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DeTomaso � Pantera, This is such a wonderful car �IMO�. I really thought about getting one before my 80� 308GTSi. It did not have a turbo, at least from the factory. It had a Ford 351 Cleveland V-8. | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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Rob, what u really need to do is go to the Pocono meet this year between June 29- July2. All questions will be answered there bring your camera | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
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DeTomaso - Pantera, is my favorite ...I love their hits like "Walk", "Hostile", and " Reinventing the Steel".....oh wait that's my favorite band, Pantera. Never Mind... | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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I thought of some more: DeTomaso - Pantera, an aggressively Italian styled car with an twin turbo American V-8 (either Chevy 350 or Ford 351, I can't remember which) for power. It put out some ridiculous horsepower numbers, some cited in the area of 800bhp. It was very fast. There is a new Pantera study concept right now that they hope to have in production for 2004. It is much less aggressive than the original and follows the current trend of smooth, flowing lines (it somewhat reminds me of a 360. B. Engineering - the company founded by a former Bugatti chairman. They have a car in the area of 700bhp that also reminds me somewhat of a 360. They plan to produce about 20 a year. I know that Bugatti is from Molsheim but I threw it in there since he's Italian, B. Engineering is solely based in Campogalliano. My mom works for Mercedes so she always has tons of car magazines. I was looking at some of the German ones and they have Ferraris for ridiculously low prices (when you convert DM to US$). New 360s for like $110G, 456s for like $170G, and 550s for like $150G. Used 355s are going for $60-75G. I need to move to Europe. | ||
| marcandre (Mondialcabrio)
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Alfa 147 2.0 Fast little car capable of 140 mph with traditional Alfa sports suspension and engine! | ||
| David Albright (Dalbright)
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http://www.modena-design.it - Zonda site http://www.pininfarina.it - The MAN http://www.bertone.it/ - Designed a few Ferrari's in his time. Webiste currently under construction | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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Pagani, a 550hp V12 supercar with a 150mph speed limiter. Now isnt that just the stupidest most insanely PC thing u ever heard of ? Retards, why bother building it if you r just going to castrate it, why not just throw in the engine out of the SMART car & be done with it? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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I found a good website for Fiat and Lancia... http://www.flu.org | ||
| Bernard Rowe (Gtsturbo)
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As I live in Europe, we get to see a few more of the standard Italian production cars than perhaps you may see in the US. Just a few of my recent favorites: LANCIA THEMA 8:32 This is a standard looking mid size family car with the V8 32valve Mondial/328 engine driving the front wheels! They detuned it a little, and changed the crank from the flat plane design, to smooth things out a little, but when you lift the bonnet (hood) it still looks like a Ferrari motor!! Quite rare, but cheap to buy, most people are afraid of the servicing costs!! ALFA ROMEO 156 Selespeed A great looking mid size car with F1 transmission! Basically the same design of shifter as a Ferrari, I think that the basic electronics & actuators are very similar. Blips on the down shift, just like the 360! This transmission was available at about the same time as the F1 355 & was perhaps the car that started the trend towards this technology in "standard" cars. LANCIA DELTA INTEGRALE My favorite! 2litre turbo motor, 4 wheel drive, perhaps the most balanced handling car yet produced! Just what an Italian car should be like, character & just a touch of temperament! Won every major rally possible when a current model! Still an active following in Europe. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Bret, you're partly right about Bugatti. He was Italian, but all cars were built in Molsheim France. Only the EB110's were built in Campogalliano, Italy (near Modena). Rob, Lancia is still in business, check them out at: http://www.lancia.com There is still my all time favorite though, right up there with Ferrari: Abarth. Founded by Carlo Abarth in 1949 from the ashes of Cisitalia. Carlo worked as an engineer there for Piero Dusio. Piero bankrupted Cisitalia, fled to Argentina and gave severance pay to Carlo in six unfinished chassis and lots of engines. Through financial backing from Armando Scagliarini the company was formed and the first cars were those modified Cisitalia cars. Next came the beautiful 205A Vignale coupes and various show cars. When Fiat introduced the 600, he built up performance kits to allow the cars to run in small displacement series racing. He went further ahead and got Zagato to coachbuild lighter bodies resulting in the GT (Double Bubble) and the Bialbero. Engines grew to 850, then 1000. Coachbuilders changed as well: Corna, Beccaris, Sibona & Basano. He also did the same for french manufacturer Simca. These were the fastest Abarths, a 2000 Corsa with Weber 58 DCO's could reach 160 mph! Eventually small displacement catagories were mixed into the larger and then eliminated altogether. Development of the 600 had been exhausted (started in 1956, ended in 1971). Plus Carlo was getting on in age, and sold the company to Fiat in 1971. Carlo died in 1979. Abarth continued on to be the "skunkworks" for Fiat and Lancia building World Champion rally cars. Now Abarth is just a name tacked on to Fiat Seicento's with airdams and other tacky add-ons. Shame really. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Bugatti - legendary for the 35, now owned by VW hopefully on the comeback in the next few years with a production of their 18 cylinder concept cars Pagani - Zonda (550hp, V12 supercar, very fast car but oddly limited to 150mph because of liability reasons) very small company Lamborghini was founded because Feruccio Lamborghini (owner of Italy's largest tractor company) was dissatisfied with the quality of his Ferrari (ironically Lamborghini's are considered to not be of the quality level of Ferrari, I guess it's not as easy as he thought to make a near race car very reliable) | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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I'm just now getting interested in other Italian cars. I especially will like the sporty models and especially ones with a racing blood line. Help me make a list, the one's I know right now are... Lamborghini - Another Modena area classic. Alfa Romeo - Where Ferrari started. Fiat - Large company that owns most of Ferrari. Maserati - Considered on par with Ferrari until bankrupt chasing the F1 dream. Lancia - Did they go out of business. Tell me more. |