| Author | Message | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 219 Registered: 11-2001 |
Event recap and pictures are up at http://www.strahan.org/FCA/round3.html Enjoy | ||
| Chris Pounds (Eggman)
Junior Member Username: Eggman Post Number: 60 Registered: 3-2002 |
Nee! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2944 Registered: 12-2000 |
TILLMAN: Where'd you get Rob? RON: We found him. TILLMAN: Found Him? In Texas? Rob is from Kansas! RON: What do you mean? TILLMAN: Well, this is a temperate zone. RON: The kart may drive south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land? TILLMAN: Are you suggesting Rob migrates? RON: Not at all. He could be carried. TILLMAN: What? A kart carrying a Rob? RON: It could grip him by the seat belt! TILLMAN: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A 100 lb. kart could not drive a 195 lb. Rob fast! RON: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of TBC is here. TILLMAN: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a kart needs to beat its engine forty-three times every second, right? RON: Please! TILLMAN: Am I right? RON: I'm not interested! JIM: It could be carried by an Italian kart! TILLMAN: Oh, yeah, an Italian kart maybe, but not a TBC kart. That's my point. JIM: Oh, yeah, I agree with that. RON: Will you ask your master if he wants to join my court at TBC?! TILLMAN: But then of course a-- Italian kart is too expensive. JIM: Oh, yeah... TILLMAN: So Rob couldn�t afford it anyway... | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 215 Registered: 11-2001 |
African or European kart? | ||
| Ron R (Ronr)
New member Username: Ronr Post Number: 41 Registered: 10-2002 |
What's the impact velocity (assuming ideal T-bone angle) required to generate the kinetic energy needed to send 350 lb of Rob and his cart airborne into the tires? Ignore aerodynamic lift of cart. | ||
| K. Wesley DeLoach (Wesleyd)
New member Username: Wesleyd Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2002 |
From what I have been told, the carts are 100lbs before the batteries. So not sure how much more they weigh. I've also considered the weight factor (i'm about the same as Ken, 5'8-9ish and 168lbs.), and I'm not sure if lower helps or hurts, i.e, is there more traction in the corners for someone heavier. I know one of my primary issues is with losing traction. (Could be just that the cars suck.) My intitial reaction though would be that lower is better (per the power/weight ratio), and that smaller size would also be better in an open environment due to drag. Now we could even get into weight distribution, is a shorter person with a larger gut resulting in a more centered weight distribution than a tall person of the same weight? Lower center of gravity? etc., etc. I'm thinking of the 348s and how they moved the battery from the back to the front to adjust weight distribution. Anyway, maybe next year we just have weigh-ins, and add weight to the carts to equal them out. =) | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 243 Registered: 12-2001 |
I agree Rob, your pace was way off due to crappy carts, not the inevitiable variation of DNA. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2929 Registered: 12-2000 |
Can anyone buy a couple "target" shirts for me. Put "Pounds" on one and "Scott" on the other. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2001 |
Actually, I do agree with Ken. At 230, the hypothetical p/w ration would drop to .0303, or almost a 60% drop. I think that's why I do better on the shorter track, as the difference would show up most on the longer straightaways. Obviously, I need to increase the power/weight ration. Since I can't bring a bigger motor, I'm working to lose weight. What the heck, it's the best motivation I've had so far  5 1/2 hours to go. I'm working now on a spreadsheet to figure out the top scores at the end of the series. I'd hate to give the trophy to the wrong person! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2927 Registered: 12-2000 |
I don't care if I weigh 195 lbs or not, I hate to loose! Now does a heavier driver have advantage in the corners as more weight down on the pavement? Maybe because of the side load all the weight is lateral anyway and decreases performance there too. Anyway, the 2-3 seconds I was off the pace was not because of my weight. I wouldn't guess the weight to make more than a half second difference. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 551 Registered: 7-2002 |
Just kidding. Tillman has said the same thing as you, but I don't think he actually calculated the results. | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 242 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hey now... I was not being cocky at all. No need to seek revenge | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 550 Registered: 7-2002 |
So basically all of us are fat? Doesn't really matter since somebody will T bone you anyway.....I predict Ken gets taken out "mysteriously" tonight. | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 241 Registered: 12-2001 |
I have a mental exercise for everybody..... Being an engineer in my former life, I am very interested in the dynamics of race car performance. I even have an engineering book all about race car aerodynamics. I got to thinking that the variation in performance of the carts at TBC might go beyond the mere condition of the carts. Let's take me as an example. After the first 3 races of the seanson, I am in the points lead (but not by much). Rob is close behind. Rob is a much better driver than I am and he knows handling techniques better than I do. So, I got to thinking that maybe driving technique is only a small part of the equation. We all agree the the carts continue to suck because of the varying levels of maintenance (charge, loose parts, etc..) So, we are not dealing with a situation where all the carts are equal. But, with 3 races each night, the odds are that everybody gets to race in 3 different carts. Granted, somebody might get shafted and get 3 bad carts in the same night, thus killing them in the points standings. As I was looking at the past pics from the races, it dawned on me that I am the smallest racer of the entire group (5'8", 165 lbs). I think Wes might be number 2 on the size list. So, let us assume that all carts are created equal - same weight, same power, etc. I think that my smaller size might be a serious advantage in the races. These carts dont wiegh very much and have small power (anybody know how much?). Lets say the carts weigh 200 lbs without a driver and each has 10 hp. This gives each cart a power to weight ratio of of 0.05. With my 165 lb frame in the car, the power-to-weight ratio drops to 0.0274 or about a 45% reduction due to the driver weight. With a bigger guy who weighs about 190 lbs, the carts have a power to weight ratio of 0.0256 or a 49% reduction to to the driver. In a regular F1 car, variations in driver weight is probably not too much of a factor since the cars weigh significantly more than a driver and the power is so high. Similary, with racing carts, they might weigh about the same (or close too) the carts we use, but the power is again greater so the dirver weight in those carts is not as critical as it is in the TBC carts. In addition, I am short. So, my body's frontal area is smaller than most of the other drivers. This means that the coefficient of drag of the cart plus me is less than it would be for the cart plus rob or Jim (who are both much taller than me). At the speeds we run, aero drag might actually be a factor of some importance in lap times due to the lower power and the combined effect of lower power-to-weight ratios for the bigger and taller guys. When most lap times are within 1.5 to 2 seconds of each other, the effects of driver size might really come into play in the series. Too bad there is probably not a very good way to handicap the races based on driver size (since the carts are so variable). Just my thoughts over my lunch hour. I decided not to eat anything and take some Exlax to improive my chances for tonight. Anybody know a good orthopedic surgeon that would be willing to remove a few of my vertibre to lower my coefficient of drag? See everybody tonight. | ||
| Ron R (Ronr)
New member Username: Ronr Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2002 |
I think I like the little track best. You have to work harder to drive the car, and you end up getting a pretty good workout. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1036 Registered: 7-2001 |
Now this sucks even more! 3 races on the big track. That happens to be the track I do the best on. Oh well, kiss THAT trophy goodbye. Have fun and BUMP ROB! | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 209 Registered: 11-2001 |
Bump. We're on for tomorrow. We'll have split heats if we have quite a few people. We're going to be on the big track, because the little one has an enduro that evening. If you want, you can download the waiver from http://www.strahan.org/FCA/ and save a few moments at the track. The weather is supposed to be clear tomorrow. See you there. Feel free to invite your friends. | ||
| K. Wesley DeLoach (Wesleyd)
New member Username: Wesleyd Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2002 |
I should be there as well. I was there a couple of weeks ago, and the cars were marginally better. My first car did not even register a lap time, and had a very loose rearend. My other cars were fine, though some of the other cars were noticeably slower. A big difference was made in that we only had 8 people on the track. | ||
| Jano Minassian (348_spy)
New member Username: 348_spy Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2002 |
HEY'TELLMAN ILL BE THERE. | ||
| Ron R (Ronr)
New member Username: Ronr Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2002 |
Good idea to review the r*les. I definitely want to bring the 308. Norwood's is almost done with my 30k service (Friday, please oh please), so I'll be ready to rock! Thnx | ||
| Ken Thomas (Future328driver)
Junior Member Username: Future328driver Post Number: 239 Registered: 12-2001 |
I am planning to be there. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 197 Registered: 11-2001 |
Actually, we've had that discussion already (see http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/6532/88853.html ), and ended up with what has been termed "Rob's Rules" 1. First rule is to have fun. This isn't F1, so don't take too serious, but do take it serious enough because of safety concerns and it is a competitive event. 2. Intentional contact is not permitted. 3. Blocking is not permitted, although defensive racing is. Defensive racing, for example, is entering a corner on the inside to prevent following racers from passing you on the inside. Blocking is swerving back and forth thus preventing someone from passing you. 4. Results are based on fastest lap time, not final finishing position. Therefore, there's no need really for head to head competition. If someone is obviously faster, then it will be mutually beneficial to let them by so you can drive the optimal line for time. Also, following a faster driver will be educational. 5. These are fast Go Karts. They aren't kid toys. There is the potential for injury with kart to kart or kart to wall contact. Everyone will be sore the next day! 6. Race your rear off! Best lap time wins. The problem this last time is that there were so many new people there, and most of them were unaware of the way we play. This time I hope to have these available for people. Glad you'll be there. Forecast calls for partly cloudy 55/33. Hope you'll bring the 308. | ||
| Ron R (Ronr)
New member Username: Ronr Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm planning to go. I think there needs to be some discussion about track etiquette regarding inherently slow cars. It's my understanding that scoring is based on personal lap times, not in which order you finish. I'm thinking that if you find yourself being constantly pushed through turns and down straightaways... you may be a slow-car driver. It sucks being you for that particular race, but have a heart, open up a hole. I know, a real racer should be able to get by, but if the unfortunate driver of the slow car happens to be pretty good and hold his lines well, it can take more than a few laps to get by. This has nothing to do with bumping around in a competitive race. That's what we're there for (bumping a little, not trying to launch Rob off the track). If I'm wrong, sorry, go ahead and blast away. It's just a suggestion. Don't mean to be giving anyone a hard time, honest! | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1001 Registered: 7-2001 |
Actually Rob, we just figured you were mad at Greg because he is an easy target to be mad at! :-) We didn't know why you bugged out so we just pinned it on him. Way too much hostility going on here, first we alienate Tillmans wife, then Rob bugs out..... | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2869 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ok, I just got drunk with Greg tonight and he told me that him and everyone else thought I was mad because he was bumping me. That is not true, although he put me in the tire barriers a few times and went out of his way to nail my crippled car, I wasn't really mad at him. The manager and the way they upkeep their cars were the target of my frustration. It was immature of me to leave early without saying bye to everyone, but it wasn't because of Greg. He also told me all were going to deal with me by just bumping me. Greg and Chris are already on my hit list, so if anyone else wants on it, then bring it on. One of these days I'll get a kart that's not a piece of •••• and then payback will be twice as hard. If you want to join the list with Greg and Chris, then that's fine. Greg and I also talked about speaking before next Tuesday's event. I think the goal is to have fun, so a little "talk" won't hurt. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 191 Registered: 11-2001 |
Sorry, Jim. We'll miss ya. (bump) Current points standings as of now: 1 Ken 50.5 2 Rob 40 3 Chris P. 40 4 Greg 38.5 5 Jim E. 36 6 Jim S. 31.5 7 Bart 30 8 Wes 27.5 9 Tillman 19.5 10 Ron 19.5 11 Mike 17 12 Brad 16 13 Jayson 15.5 14 Don 15 15 Tim 12 16 Mark 8 17 Francis 5 18 Keith 4 19 Chris F. 20 Bill 0.0 Everyone's invited, please chime in if you're planning on going. Jim S, Bob, Rob, Brad, Dan? Anyone else? | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 991 Registered: 7-2001 |
I can't make this one, I have to fly to Phoenix that night. It's too bad, I was hoping to improve my points standings but I guess that won't happen. Have fun anyway! | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 180 Registered: 11-2001 |
Greetings. The last round of the 2002 series is taking place on December 10 at TBC at 7:00 PM. We should be on the track by 7:30. As always, everyone is invited. Come compete, and we will find out who the Grand Champion is for the year. If we have more than 12 people this time (we had 16 last time!) we will run the races as heats and combine the heat times to determine finishing positions. This will allow for more room on the track and hopefully cleaner racing. Details on the series are at http://www.strahan.org/FCA and recaps of previous events are available at http://www.strahan.org/FCA/round1.html and http://www.strahan.org/FCA/round2.html Hope to see you there. |