Dino Cromodora wheel refinishing needed | FerrariChat

Dino Cromodora wheel refinishing needed

Discussion in '206/246' started by enzosteve, Feb 24, 2010.

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  1. enzosteve

    enzosteve Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    169
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Steve
    I am looking for a wheel refinisher in the Santa Monica area of Los Angeles. Anyone know of a good one?

    These are 1971 dino wheels Cromodora

    Does anyone know if these wheels are magnesium?


    thanks
     
  2. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
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    #2 dinogts, Feb 24, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
    I know that this is pretty far away from you, but Spencer Trenery at Fantasy Junction (Emeryville, CA, right next door to PIXAR) told me just this last Friday when I was visiting them to look at and drive their blue 246GT, that they have a guy who will refinish Dino wheels correctly for about $75.00 each. (I hope that is his price to the general public, but I can't warrant that). That is a hell of a lot cheaper than what I paid to have some of mine refinished. If you can't find somebody nearer who is reasonable, you might want to call Spencer at 510/653-7555.

    Also, I believe the Cromodoras are made of an alloy with some magnesium, but they have nowhere near as high a percentage of magnesium (thank God) as the set of original Minilites that I just recently gave away, and they are no way as light as my Minilites were. Original magnesium wheels like my Minilites are not an easy wheel to live with for road use and I strongly recommend against them for any use other than on a track. They become porous, they get damaged easily on the road, and they oxidize in weird ways - they flake and they end up looking like they have white mold on them. Mine, despite having been supposedly correctly treated, seemed to be continually trying to find new and improved ways to commit suicide, unlike my Cromodoras, which are holding up quite nicely. Somewhat bizarrely, I found an old Cox Chaparral 1/24 scale slot car that has 3 sets of real mag wheels in 1/24 scale, and they have flaked and oxidized in the same way as my Minilites - but at least they don't have to hold air.
    Good luck -
    Mark
     
  3. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,294
    CHNDLR
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    Scott
    One of the best, has done many Ferrari and Porsche wheels

    Fast Forward Wheels
    Eli Sesma
    (626)289-1462
    Alhambra

    Check out the examples :
    www.fastforwardwheels.com
     
  4. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
    12,536
    Left Coast
    Beware if your rims are a blend of Aluminum and Magnesium similar to "Tecnomagnesio" you need an expert to do the work. If not the result could be worse IE failure. A standard wheel and tire shop that buffs aluminum rims has no idea what they are dealing with.
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    The warnings are quite well founded, the less paint removed, the better!

    Best of luck on it....
     
  6. enzosteve

    enzosteve Karting

    Nov 14, 2006
    169
    Los Angeles
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    Steve
    There are stock 14"s Cromodora


    I cant find the make up of the rim anywhere online


    but Thank you for all your input
     
  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Just avoid the modern "strip all the paint off" mentality as there are many coats of specialized primers, sealing the material...it's very porous.

    Also avoid powdercoating.....for safety reasons.

    Welcome aboard!
     
  8. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    It's an alloy based upon Ferrari's desire for light weight, the racing ones will burn from the high magnesium content....Street wheels not so much, different make up.
     
  9. 500tr

    500tr Formula 3

    Feb 28, 2004
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    Volkmar Spielmann
    Just like to ask what's your opinion about this blue 246 GT at Fantasy Junction?
     
  10. rwk360

    rwk360 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2005
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    R W Kenton
    Out of curiosity, why would you "avoid powdercoating.......for safety reasons"?
     
  11. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
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    IMO the powder coat company will want/need to strip off all paint/ primers to get the powder paint to stick. This can allow moisture in. Thus meaning the rims would then need to be baked. Can they get all the moisture out and keep it out??

    Another area of problem is using clip on wheel balance weights.
     
  12. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 BigTex, Feb 25, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
    Mr. Glickenhaus covered this in a thread with modern wheels for sale, done black.

    Apparently the baking curing temps are too high and can embrittle the alloy, leading to bad things down the road.

    Like the old commercial, "When 'G & Sons' talks, Tex listens"!!
     
  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 BigTex, Feb 25, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
    There's a Ferrari Tech Bulletin on all the various primer coats...

    I sand, reseal, and repaint mine all the time, but never go thru the primers....no I don't have the Bulletin handy but I put a print of it in my Books....

    Also, my experience here, I bought a 308GTB with beautifully finished, clear coated (incorrect points off! LOL!) powder coating...sure enough corrision is creeping ALL over them beneath the finish and it's flaking off in chunks.....no idea if they are damaged permanently. Ugly, for SURE!!! It's not 100% of each wheel I'll probably try a 'patch' but it's a sure indication of the stripping they did, without repriming correctly.
     
  14. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

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    I don't think this can be posted too many times. It is a real saftey issue that is not understood, and there is a big diffrence between Steel Aluminum and the Mag/alu alloy.
     
  15. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
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    From research and experience - I'm NO expert, use at your own risk!

    These wheels can be an enormous pain if done incorectly. As was mentioned, if you can leave the original coating on there, it's EZ. If you go down to metal, you're in a whole new sport. The wheels are magnesium. Campy and Cromadora. Paint will have a short life regardless of primer if bare Mg is not addressed correctly.

    Some Mg treatment sources: General Magnadyne, Technology Applications Group (TAGnite).

    An aerospace standard for Mg sealing is Mil M-45202. DOW17 (the greenish coating) satisfies this. There are others like DOW 9, 7, HAE, 1, but not as effective as DOW 17. There was a really cool DOW brochure with a pix showing how DOW made it possible for Mg to have practical applications and showed a bunch of Ferrari parts. The Mg experts mentioned have newer Mg coatings that rival and possibly surpass DOW 17.

    I have had wheels done correctly and it was expensive. I also had wheels done incorrectly and it would have been cheaper to throw them out and start over. Bottom line, proceed with great caution.
     
  16. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie

    Feb 11, 2006
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    Andres
    The Campagnolos are magnesium. Some Technomagnesio wheels are magnesium. The original Minilites were magnesium. The difference in weight (and cost) between magnesium and aluminum wheels is enormous. You can use magnesium wheels on the street (Speedline for instance makes magnesium wheels for the Lotus Elise), but they don't like moisture at all. Repainting them is a big problem, as you do need to go through a specific process. I posted instructions before, drawn from an aircraft repair manual, on refinishing magnesium.

    I always thought that the Cromodoras are aluminum. If so, they won't be as big a problem. But since you have a specialist to go to, I would use them.
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks guys, for backing me up!
     
  18. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    #18 dave80gtsi, Feb 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I am in the process as we speak of refinishing a set of vintage magnesium Cromodoras, albeit not for a Dino.

    Here's what I am doing, and have done for several similar magnesium wheel sets in years past, with outstanding long term results:

    1) Get wheels down to bare metal, I prefer soda blasting.

    2) Immediately (and I mean within hours) treat the bare mag wheel with a metal stabilizer. I used to use Magna-Dyne for this as it was magnesium-specific, but it's been discontinued. Next best substitute that I could find and have used for this recent wheel set is Pre-Kote.

    3) Multiple light aerosol rattle can coats of a yellow zinc chromate primer, one light coat per day to allow for ample drying time. MUST be zinc chromate, accept no substitutes. Aircraft Spruce sells both the Pre-Kote and the zinc chromate primer, both are easy to find and inexpensive.

    4) Finish coat to suit. I use Eastwood silver enamel wheel paints.

    I've been doing this work for -years- and have had -NO- problems with corrosion beneath the paint or any similar long term deterioration / stability issues.

    While you do need to follow specific steps, refinishing magnesium wheels is an easy DIY project.

    Cheers - DM
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  19. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

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    Many Campy rims are Tecnomagnesio a blend of Magnesium and Aluminum.
     
  20. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie

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    I think "Tecnomagnesio" is the name of a company, also Italian, that makes magnesium wheels principally. In the late 1980s, when I could not get 15" Campagnolo wheels for my Stratos, Tecnomagnesio ran off a set for me, made in magnesium. As far as I know, Tecnomagnesio has no relation to Campagnolo. Tecnomagnesio still make wheels today.

    Campagnolo I recall called its magnesium material "Elektron."

    All this is from memory, so I could be wrong.

    The orginal "mag" wheels were of course magnesium. Minilite was the most prominent in the 60s. Lotus also used magnesium for their racing wheels too. My 1963 Lotus 23 (no longer with me, unfortunately) had the famous magnesium "wobbly-web" magnesium wheels. My 1969 Elan, brouught to 26R spec for racing, has magnesium wheels too. They are incredibly light wheels. My newish Lotus Elise has magnesium Speedline wheels. My Stratos' standard 14" wheels were magnesium (short life) and also the aforementiuoned 15" competition wheels (I am now using magnesium wheels cast in Germany).

    All of these magnesium wheels led me to study how to refinish them!

    My Dino didn't come with Cromodoras, so I don't know what material they came in. I thought they were aluminum, which makes them easy to care for and refinish, but they would probably be magnesium.

    Andy
     
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  21. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,345
    Mag wheels can be very porus at the rim but the porosity can be sealed with PPG Deltron DPLF Epoxy primer DP401LF and DP402LF. The preferred paint selection info was given to me by the local helicopter service shop. It truly sealed my wheels which had just been 'painted' by a great paint shop with no magnesium experiency. The 'looked' great but leaked.

    I learned the need for special treatment when my beautiful new (to me) 16" wheels wouldn't hold pressure more than a few days. The tire shop put them in a water tank and sure enuf, bubbles at the rim where you expect the tire bead to seal to the wheel. Other methods won't work or won't last.

    You really need to take the inside down to bare metal and put on several coats of epoxy primer before using a coat of silver to complete the job. This isn't the complete inside of the wheel but the tire bead seal area. If you look close once down to bare metal, you can easily see holes in the casting. No need to worry about the outside if the inside is done properly.
     
  22. MarkJ

    MarkJ Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2006
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    Good info!
     
  23. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
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    With all due respect to all and as a cautioning for the OP, most advises, including this, regarding the topic of this thread seems, to me at least, have no idea they're talking about. One hint: Powder Coating process includes "baking" !!!, although, there are other legitimate (but not apparently mentioned here) reasons why powder coating is not the best idea for these types of wheels. Another hint: somebody professionally refinishing a Cromodoras for $ 75.-/ea. (?) must have lowest labor-rate this side of the U.S. southern border ???
    And I completely fail to understand why powder coating would make a difference regarding "clip-on" balance weigths ?
     
  24. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

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    If you read the other posts you will notice that everyone suggests leaving the primer on, this can't be done with powder coating. they would need to be stripped. Then Baked to remove moisture!

    Spraying the powder paint on the bare metal and then baking traps the moisture in.

    So yes baking is included in the powder coat process but not to remove moisture.

    Also the time element between stripping- baking-priming needs to be quick it is not uncommon for powder coat shops to leave sandblasted parts around unpainted for days.

    The clip-ons have nothing to do with powder coating, just another concern,because they often take paint off or chip paint when applied exposing the bare metal.
     
  25. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
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    Campagnolo wheel division was purchased by Tecnomagnesio in 1981, later Tecnomagnesio was purchased by MIM
     

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