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  #1  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:20 AM
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Pertronix Ignitor module

Has anyone fitted a Pertronix Ignitor module to an Euro '73 Dino?
If so, can you tell me which model you used and if the control unit can fit in an empty Dinoplex box?

Thanks in advance.

Chris
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:52 PM
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You need Ignitor kit MR-161A. Everything fits within the distributor, there is no control unit.
Simple
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:22 PM
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Mark,
Thanks.
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:01 AM
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The Ignitor I (MR-161A) delivers max 4 Amp coil current based on the manufacturer specs, which is not really sufficient for running a Dino engine, its basically the same as a points and coil setup.
The Ignitor II (9MR-161A) should deliver a higher coil current but i haven't been able to find any output current specification on the manufacturer site. Need to source one these days and put it on the test bench to get a better idea.

Both Ignitor setups are for the three lobe cam setup as in S125A/BX distributors, so you need to modify the supplied magnetic sleeve for your S125C distributor with six lobes and verify the phasing afterwards.

Best,
Adrian
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:14 AM
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Adrian,

A 6 lobe sleeve is available. If the Dino engine ran with points then an Ignitor will perform better irrespective of amperage. I have not heard of anyone complaining about the MR-161A. Of course, the Ignitor 2 will be even better, especially if teamed with a Flamethrower 2 coil.
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:15 PM
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Mark,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark456M View Post
A 6 lobe sleeve is available.
thanks for the update, do you have a part number for ordering the 6 lobe sleeve?

Quote:
If the Dino engine ran with points then an Ignitor will perform better irrespective of amperage
Dino 206/246's were always supplied with a CDI ignition by Ferrari due to problems with the weaker points and coil setup. Fiat tried to sell their Dinos with a points and coil setup and then reverted to the same CDI ignition and also supplied CDI retrofit kits to their dealers.

Quote:
I have not heard of anyone complaining about the MR-161A.
I had one installed for about half a year with a Bosch Red Coil/Resistor and had problems with spark plug fouling and overheating of the Ignitors IGBT which lead to misfires and a forced ref limit of around 3-4K until the unit had a chance to cool down. I know of two other Dinos and another Fiat Dino, which had similar problems and converted either back to a Dinoplex or to another third party.

I am not saying that the Ignitor I is a bad product, it just depends on the engines requirements and the Ignitor I is not ideal for running a race engine derived Dino V6.

Quote:
Of course, the Ignitor 2 will be even better, especially if teamed with a Flamethrower 2 coil.
That would be interesting, do you have more data like the avg/max coil current on the Ignitor 2? The website seems to have only high level information available.

Cheers,
Adrian
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2012, 05:16 PM
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Adrian,

Thanks.
I'll call them. What data do you actually want to know about the Ignitor 2.
Chris
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2012, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJano View Post
Adrian,

Thanks.
I'll call them. What data do you actually want to know about the Ignitor 2.
Chris
Adrain,
Ignore my query; I didn't read your post properly. I'll ask for avg/max coil current on the Ignitor 2 as you write.

Chris
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJano View Post
Adrian,

Thanks.
I'll call them. What data do you actually want to know about the Ignitor 2.
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJano View Post
Adrain,
Ignore my query; I didn't read your post properly. I'll ask for avg/max coil current on the Ignitor 2 as you write.

Chris
If I were to guess it would be 7 or 8amps
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJano View Post
Adrain,
Ignore my query; I didn't read your post properly. I'll ask for avg/max coil current on the Ignitor 2 as you write.

Chris
Great, thanks! If they don't know that, the output in millijoule for the Ignitor/Flamethrower Coil setup would be interesting.

Keep in mind that you also need a tacho adapter, if you plan to install an ignitor setup.

Last edited by alhbln; 12-30-2012 at 12:16 AM.
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  #11  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alhbln View Post
Great, thanks! If they don't know that, the output in millijoule for the Ignitor/Flamethrower Coil setup would be interesting.

Keep in mind that you also need a tacho adapter, if you plan to install an ignitor setup.
Adrian,
Will do. Where does one get one of those?

Chris
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2012, 02:52 PM
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Adrian,
Quote:
Originally Posted by alhbln View Post
Mark,



thanks for the update, do you have a part number for ordering the 6 lobe sleeve?

* Order under part number MR-1121A3

Dino 206/246's were always supplied with a CDI ignition by Ferrari due to problems with the weaker points and coil setup. Fiat tried to sell their Dinos with a points and coil setup and then reverted to the same CDI ignition and also supplied CDI retrofit kits to their dealers.

* The Ignitor makes a great trigger for CD boxes. It gives a much more precise and shorter signal than points.

I had one installed for about half a year with a Bosch Red Coil/Resistor and had problems with spark plug fouling and overheating of the Ignitors IGBT which lead to misfires and a forced ref limit of around 3-4K until the unit had a chance to cool down. I know of two other Dinos and another Fiat Dino, which had similar problems and converted either back to a Dinoplex or to another third party.

* The Bosch red coil is not compatible with the standard Ignitor (as I'm sure you know). You do not mention the value of the resistor. On a 6 cylinder engine, the Ignitor would like to see around 3.0 Ohms primary resistance. For continued high rpm operation, a 1.5 Ohm coil would be OK. I believe the incompatibilty problem is more likely to have caused your troubles and had you fitted a Flamethrower coil with the correct resistance, I don't think you would have had an issue. To help with plug fouling, I would have gone up 10 or 20 on the air jets. In my experience, the small carbbed engines were overfuelled.

I am not saying that the Ignitor I is a bad product, it just depends on the engines requirements and the Ignitor I is not ideal for running a race engine derived Dino V6.

* There are a lot more highly tuned and higher revving engines running with the standard Ignitor and coil, including Cosworths, without any troubles.


That would be interesting, do you have more data like the avg/max coil current on the Ignitor 2? The website seems to have only high level information available.

* The Ignitor 2 has a peak current of 6 amps. Of course, peak and average current will depend on the coil, voltage, number of cylinders etc. The Ignitor 2 allows the running of a coil with a resistance of down to 0.45 Ohms primary resistance. This will improve high rpm operation due to quicker charge time and higher spark energy. The Ignitor 3 has a peak current of 7 amps and allows a coil of 0.32 Ohms primary resistance to be used. Unfortunately this is currently only available for American V8 engines. All the Ferrari, Lambo and Lancia applications are available in Ignitor 2 form.

Cheers,
Adrian
I hope this goes some way to answering your questions,
Best regards and Happy New Year,

Mark
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark456M View Post
Adrian,


I hope this goes some way to answering your questions,
Best regards and Happy New Year,

Mark
Very helpful, thanks, you're a gent.
Chris
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  #14  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJano View Post
Adrian,
Will do. Where does one get one of those?

Chris
I still have some of the last batch left, send me a pm.
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  #15  
Old 01-01-2013, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark456M View Post
* The Bosch red coil is not compatible with the standard Ignitor (as I'm sure you know). You do not mention the value of the resistor. On a 6 cylinder engine, the Ignitor would like to see around 3.0 Ohms primary resistance. For continued high rpm operation, a 1.5 Ohm coil would be OK. I believe the incompatibilty problem is more likely to have caused your troubles and had you fitted a Flamethrower coil with the correct resistance, I don't think you would have had an issue. To help with plug fouling, I would have gone up 10 or 20 on the air jets. In my experience, the small carbbed engines were overfilled.
I was not aware that the Bosch Red coil is not compatible with the standard ignitor. It is a 1.5Ω coil, and has a resistance of 3.0-3.2Ω with the supplied resistor, as recommended on the Pertronix website for 6 cal setups/Ignitor I. BTW, the Flamethrower coil is very similar to the Bosch Red coil, most parameters are less than 10% apart including winding ratio and coil primary/secondary inductance.

Quote:
* The Ignitor 2 has a peak current of 6 amps. Of course, peak and average current will depend on the coil, voltage, number of cylinders etc. The Ignitor 2 allows the running of a coil with a resistance of down to 0.45 Ohms primary resistance. This will improve high rpm operation due to quicker charge time and higher spark energy. The Ignitor 3 has a peak current of 7 amps and allows a coil of 0.32 Ohms primary resistance to be used. Unfortunately this is currently only available for American V8 engines. All the Ferrari, Lambo and Lancia applications are available in Ignitor 2 form.

I hope this goes some way to answering your questions,
Best regards and Happy New Year,

Mark
Yes, thank you! I'll add it to the market overview as 9MR-161A for the 3 lobe cam and MR-1121A3 for the 6 lobe magnetic trigger ring.

Happy new year and best regards,
Adrian
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:04 PM
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Adrain,

Here's the response from Pertronix regards my e-mail query to them on output:

Ok, here are the readings. Please keep in mind any change to the Ignitor or
coil will change the values. Also keep in mind this is a inductive system
and not a CDI system. You can't compare the two based off these numbers.
I2 @ ft2 @ 3000 120mj
I@ft@3000 60mj

I'm not good with electrics, does this make sense to you?

Chris





Quote:
Originally Posted by alhbln View Post
Great, thanks! If they don't know that, the output in millijoule for the Ignitor/Flamethrower Coil setup would be interesting.

Keep in mind that you also need a tacho adapter, if you plan to install an ignitor setup.
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  #17  
Old 01-01-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicJano View Post
Adrain,

Here's the response from Pertronix regards my e-mail query to them on output:

Ok, here are the readings. Please keep in mind any change to the Ignitor or
coil will change the values. Also keep in mind this is a inductive system
and not a CDI system. You can't compare the two based off these numbers.
I2 @ ft2 @ 3000 120mj
I@ft@3000 60mj

I'm not good with electrics, does this make sense to you?

Chris
Yes it does, 60 mj as supplied by the Ignitor I is too low for the Dino engine from experience. The Ignitor II supplies 120 mj which looks good, should work fine when combined with EIX/EVX spark plugs.

Adrian
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  #18  
Old 01-02-2013, 06:49 AM
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Adrian,
Thanks again, most helpful.
Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by alhbln View Post
Yes it does, 60 mj as supplied by the Ignitor I is too low for the Dino engine from experience. The Ignitor II supplies 120 mj which looks good, should work fine when combined with EIX/EVX spark plugs.

Adrian
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