ADVICE NEEDED ON 1974 246 GTS

JJA · Oct 30, 2013

I have the unfortunate responsibility in helping my mother-in-law get her estate in order. Her husband recently passed away and she needs to sell his beloved 1974 Dino 246 GTS. After a little bit of searching our jaws hit the floor when we found out what the potential value of this car may be!

Here is a bit of history and details that I know about the car:

1974 Dino 246 GTS
VIN: 06982
Color: Gold
Right Hand Drive
Purchased in England and imported by my father-in-law in 1983
Some work had been done to make it US legal, and I think I have the documents that indicate exactly what work was performed.
Engine was last started around 10 years ago. I don't think there were any issues with the car, my father-in-law had just decided to park it, let it age, and eventually restore it. I know it's been mostly garaged since at least the early 90's.

I'm a bit overwhelmed with the responsibility with helping my mother-in-law with such a valuable asset I know so little about. I called a Ferrari Dealership in Seattle, and after sending them a couple pictures I had three different people call me to talk about the car. From the pictures, one of the gentlemen ball parked a restoration at about 50,000-100,000. He stated he was the wrong person to talk to about the sales value afterwards. The next gentleman calling an hour later (same dealership) ball parked the restoration at 150,000-200,000, a process that would take two years. He believed this would bring the value of the car to 350,000. He plans to come and see the car tomorrow, and thinks there's a good chance he can offer around 60,000 "as is" for the car.

Can anyone volunteer some wisdom and guidance on how I should proceed? I know a restoration is an investment, and while she may be willing to take on a 50,000/6 month restoration, a 200,000/2 year ordeal is a no go. She's ecstatic of potentially getting 60,000; however would we be "giving" the car away at that price? The money would be a godsend to her, and I just don't want to leave a large chunk of money on the table due to my ignorance.

Please help,

John

Edward 96GTS · Oct 30, 2013

probably worth above $250k in present condition. ignore all offers til you know the market better.

barchetta · Oct 30, 2013

Hi John,

Unless that car is a "basket case", $60K would be leaving a significant amount of money "on the table". Please feel free to send me a private message and I would be happy to discuss making a market-correct offer on your mother-in-laws Dino.

Thank you

TonyL · Oct 30, 2013

Without seeing the car it is very difficult to give a guide price but going on recent auctions for less than favourable cars then I would say $250K - $275K is a fair estimate. For that it needs to be a good original car. If I was you I would forget restoration as these costs can escalate beyond belief.

If you want to attain the best price then seek professional guidance from a reputable auction house who can value the car and auction it with a reserve. It may cost you to sell but at least you will hopefully get the best price. A RHD car in the US may be a disadvantage to US buyers, perhaps they can chip in with some words of wisdom.

If its a basket case . ie full of rust then don't expect any sensible offers as the cost of restoring these cars is increasing with their values and restorers are becoming acutely aware of the costs.

greyboxer · Oct 30, 2013

Very similar thread here gives more hints as to what to do or who to talk to http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-ferrari-market/425097-what-do-67-330-gts-low-mileage.html

Nuvolari · Oct 30, 2013

Tony's advice is very sound. A $60K offer is REALLY taking advantage and the reality is that the number is closer to $200K for a complete un-serviced car.

My opinion as to getting the most money in this market is to sell the car as is. Do not bother restoring it as it is way more money than you will ever recover from increasing the value through condition.

For God's sake TAKE YOUR TIME selling this one. You will be inundated with people trying to steal it from you by taking advantage of your situation and you were right to come here asking for advice. Right now Dino's are the hot thing so don't feel rushed because there are no shortage of buyers.

4CamGT · Oct 30, 2013

John,

We will all help guide you in the right direction. This is a valuable resource for you and for the most part, everyone is focused on giving you the best advice. Photos would really help along with a description of everthing that is with it ie manuals, toolkit, spare parts etc etc. Go through your father-in-law's stuff VERY carefully! A simple paper clock tag is $200+, a manual pouch with all the manuals is $5K+, original keyfob $600+, the jack is $3K+!!!

Freeman

P.S. If you do decide to sell it for $60K, I'll buy it sight unseen!!! I'll make my flight arrangements IMMEDIATELY!!!

12659 · Oct 30, 2013

You might want to contact some of the British auction houses. A RHD car is worth more to that lot and it will fetch Pounds Sterling. The Dino market is Global and England is the capital of the RHD market.

Kevin Rev'n · Oct 30, 2013

It would be interesting to see the pictures you sent the dealer. Anyway to attach them to this thread?

raider1968 · Oct 30, 2013

You are really getting good advice on this thread - I would only add that I would get a appraisal done by an independent know authority - for $250,00 +- it certainly is worth the investment - would u buy a house without an appraisal? The people on this board know what the heck they are taking about I am sure someone can come up with the contact for a known expert - especially in this very notable time for the Dino - timing could not be better $ wise

raider1968 · Oct 30, 2013

Too bad you father in law didn't keep a few other "OLD" cars in the garage - Bet your mother in law looks at the car differently now

GermanDino · Oct 30, 2013

JJA said: ↑

I wanted to reach out to this forum for some advice and wisdom on how to proceed with my late father-in-law's 1974 DINO 246 GTS. He recently passed away and my mother-in-law has requested my help in selling the car.

A little bit of internet searching caught us all completely off guard on the potential value of this car, and quickly became a task I feel inadequately prepared to undertake. She has not been left with a lot, and finding out how valuable the car is has given her a tremendous amount of relief for her uncertain financial future.

Now to the car:

1974 Dino 246 GTS
Bronze/Gold Color
Right hand drive (imported from England by my father-in-law in 1983)
I believe all the parts are original and in hand
Physically everything looks to be in good shape
Mechanically unknown - The car was in perfect working order when my father-in-law stopped driving it some 15 years ago due to registration issues in California. The engine was last started 10 years ago.

I've sent some pictures to a local Ferrari dealer to inquire about restoration options. Yesterday afternoon I received two calls from one individual that handles the actual restoration, and another who would probably be best described as a broker. The mechanic said that from my description a full restoration would cost 50000-100000, and did not feel he could talk about what resale that would yield. The broker called an hour later and estimated a restoration would cost 150000-200000, take 2 years, yielding a resale value of about 350000. The broker estimates he could offer my mother-in-law about 60,000 "as-is". He is coming over today to take a look.

These are all big numbers to my family, and the 60,000 is more than my mother-in-law ever dreamed she could get. However, a 50,000/6month restoration is a possibility for her. A 150,000+/2yr project is out of the question.

Does anyone have any recommendations on a course of action for us? Would we be better off trying to find a private buyer? Would an auction be a better move? Would an auction take it as is? What would be a reasonable "as is" value?

Thank you in advance for any replies.

John
Click to expand...

60.000,- sounds very little, this Dino will trade much higher....
do you have the chassis no.

JJA · Oct 30, 2013

Thank you Matthias,

I apologize to the forum about the double post. I didn't think my first one made it through when I didn't see it listed in the forum this morning after writing it last night. I re-wrote it this morning, and now I see both have made it into the forum. Please refer to my other nearly identical post for further discussion.

PhatFrank · Oct 30, 2013

I'd say that this broker seems to smell a quick and big profit. The car should at least fetch 100k ++, even if a complete restoration is needed. The market for Dinos is strong at the moment, and I would think twice before taking on a time and money-consuming restoration. The market could turn, and in this situation the risks could be high. Have a proper Dino guy look at the car, fix it up so it runs and looks clean, and sell it. Many buyers prefer original cars, so do as little as possible and secure your mother in law a comfortable future. Or do as many would do to their in-laws; tell her it's worth nothing, and keep it for yourself.

JJA · Oct 30, 2013

Thank you all so much for the information and advice.

A father and son team came by this morning from the dealer and they were very pleasant and straight forward. They found the car a little worse off than they were hoping. The main issues the mentioned to me were corrosion on the engine, evidence of some front end damage at some point, and rodents had taken up residence when the car was stored in a garage in California over 12 years ago. It's been rodent free since coming to Seattle, but the remains of their presence is evident. The extent of the damage is unknown. No rodent specific rodent damage is evident, but a family had obviously taken up residence under the hood. They are interested in buying the car, and are confident that their offer would have to be south of 100,000. They recommended that we have a thorough evaluation of the car's condition be performed if we decide to sell it on our own. The logic being that any buyer will assume the worst, and if we can provide an accurate picture of exactly what they are buying they can be confident in a higher offer.

There are some missing items in the pictures, like the seat and the top, however they are just buried in the attic and garage somewhere. My mother-in-law said that even the tool kit is here, we just have to find it. My father-in-law was a lifelong Ferrari enthusiast and he would never part with anything he had associated with this car. We even found a stack of about a dozen Ferrari books and publications, all with autographs. I'm not sure whose signatures they are, I'm assuming they would be of various professional drivers.

The pictures aren't great, the brakes are frozen and I can't roll it into the open to get better angles, and the lighting in the garage is less than ideal.

Not sure how this new information affects everyone's assessment of this situation, but hopefully the pictures can help with your collective judgment.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

JJA · Oct 30, 2013

raider1968 said: ↑

Too bad you father in law didn't keep a few other "OLD" cars in the garage - Bet your mother in law looks at the car differently now
Click to expand...

Actually there's a 1957 Porsche 356A Speedster, in pieces in the other half of the garage. We think all the pieces are there, but we haven't started digging it out of it's half of the garage yet. We just don't know much about it yet.

JJA · Oct 30, 2013

I think my next call should be to an auction house that specializes in these kind of cars. They may have some good contacts locally that can help properly prepare the car auction, if that's the road my mother in law decides to take.

calder1 · Oct 30, 2013

Pm sent

MarkT · Oct 30, 2013

JJA said: ↑

Actually there's a 1957 Porsche 356A Speedster, in pieces in the other half of the garage. We think all the pieces are there, but we haven't started digging it out of it's half of the garage yet. We just don't know much about it yet.
Click to expand...

You may wish to go to the 356 Registry forum to ask questions about the Speedster. That is another classic that is very hot. Home

4CamGT · Oct 30, 2013

John,

This is a "one stop" shop! If you need any advice on the '57 Speedster I can help. I have two '56's and have been involved with 356's/Porsches for many years. John, take it sloooowly with all of this! An auction house most likely will want you to sign a "No Reserve" agreement. There are many sharks who would like to get the Dino and Speedster for very little. Both have a huge fan and collector base. Take your time with all of this! There are some good people in your neighborhood who can advise you how to go about it. What I would do is empty the garage sloooowly as any piece of paper, tool, part etc could be HIGHLY collectible. A correct Dino spark plug wrench could be $800-$1000 and looks like a normal tool. Could be easily missing out of the tool kit. Photograph everything! Once together, photograph all the parts and car as a set. The more you have, the more valuable the car becomes. Don't be too concerned about a little accident damage or corrosion. It matters little on a "barn find". Initial impression on the Dino looks good!

Freeman

LARRYH · Oct 30, 2013

While I am a Dino owner I am no expert However there really are some experts that have responded to this thread . What you have is rare and desirable .. I think 4camgt (freeman) advice is very good the inventory of what you have in regards to tools and paperwork is very valuable.. ..
Best of luck with this project ...
LarryH

synchro · Oct 30, 2013

Thank you for posting.

A numbers matching car would be worth more, but whatever it ends up being then I'll still find this complete discovery exciting.

You might peruse a thread I started during the restoration of one of my Dinos.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/206-246/256101-finding-dino-chassis-vin-engine-transaxle-pf-body-numbers.html

Sincerely,

Scott
Kirkland, WA

PS - Check your private messages.

JJA said: ↑

I have the unfortunate responsibility in helping my mother-in-law get her estate in order. Her husband recently passed away and she needs to sell his beloved 1974 Dino 246 GTS. After a little bit of searching our jaws hit the floor when we found out what the potential value of this car may be!

Here is a bit of history and details that I know about the car:

1974 Dino 246 GTS
VIN: 06982
Color: Gold
Right Hand Drive
Purchased in England and imported by my father-in-law in 1983
Some work had been done to make it US legal, and I think I have the documents that indicate exactly what work was performed.
Engine was last started around 10 years ago. I don't think there were any issues with the car, my father-in-law had just decided to park it, let it age, and eventually restore it. I know it's been mostly garaged since at least the early 90's.

I'm a bit overwhelmed with the responsibility with helping my mother-in-law with such a valuable asset I know so little about. I called a Ferrari Dealership in Seattle, and after sending them a couple pictures I had three different people call me to talk about the car. From the pictures, one of the gentlemen ball parked a restoration at about 50,000-100,000. He stated he was the wrong person to talk to about the sales value afterwards. The next gentleman calling an hour later (same dealership) ball parked the restoration at 150,000-200,000, a process that would take two years. He believed this would bring the value of the car to 350,000. He plans to come and see the car tomorrow, and thinks there's a good chance he can offer around 60,000 "as is" for the car.

Can anyone volunteer some wisdom and guidance on how I should proceed? I know a restoration is an investment, and while she may be willing to take on a 50,000/6 month restoration, a 200,000/2 year ordeal is a no go. She's ecstatic of potentially getting 60,000; however would we be "giving" the car away at that price? The money would be a godsend to her, and I just don't want to leave a large chunk of money on the table due to my ignorance.

Please help,

John
Click to expand...

ENZOSON · Oct 30, 2013

Boy - this would make a great episode for "Chasing Classic Cars"!!

Pietro

shaughnessy · Oct 30, 2013

Why let Wayne go in and buy it! I want the car.

ENZOSON · Oct 30, 2013

shaughnessy said: ↑

Why let Wayne go in and buy it! I want the car.
Click to expand...

We were hoping to see you in the show!

Pietro

Conversations

Alerts

ADVICE NEEDED ON 1974 246 GTS

JJA Rookie

Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
Silver Subscribed

barchetta Formula Junior
Silver Subscribed

TonyL F1 Rookie

greyboxer F1 World Champ

Nuvolari F1 Veteran
Owner Silver Subscribed

4CamGT F1 Rookie

12659 Formula Junior

Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
Owner Silver Subscribed

raider1968 F1 Rookie
Owner

raider1968 F1 Rookie
Owner

GermanDino F1 Rookie

JJA Rookie

PhatFrank Karting

JJA Rookie

JJA Rookie

JJA Rookie

calder1 F1 Rookie
Sponsor Owner

MarkT Karting

4CamGT F1 Rookie

LARRYH F1 Veteran
Owner Rossa Subscribed

synchro F1 Veteran

ENZOSON Formula Junior
Silver Subscribed

shaughnessy Formula 3

ENZOSON Formula Junior
Silver Subscribed

Share This Page

ADVICE NEEDED ON 1974 246 GTS

JJA Rookie

Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran Silver Subscribed

barchetta Formula Junior Silver Subscribed

TonyL F1 Rookie

greyboxer F1 World Champ

Nuvolari F1 Veteran Owner Silver Subscribed

4CamGT F1 Rookie

12659 Formula Junior

Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ Owner Silver Subscribed

raider1968 F1 Rookie Owner

raider1968 F1 Rookie Owner

GermanDino F1 Rookie

JJA Rookie

PhatFrank Karting

JJA Rookie

JJA Rookie

JJA Rookie

calder1 F1 Rookie Sponsor Owner

MarkT Karting

4CamGT F1 Rookie

LARRYH F1 Veteran Owner Rossa Subscribed

synchro F1 Veteran

ENZOSON Formula Junior Silver Subscribed

shaughnessy Formula 3

ENZOSON Formula Junior Silver Subscribed

Share This Page

Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
Silver Subscribed

barchetta Formula Junior
Silver Subscribed

Nuvolari F1 Veteran
Owner Silver Subscribed

Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
Owner Silver Subscribed

raider1968 F1 Rookie
Owner

raider1968 F1 Rookie
Owner

calder1 F1 Rookie
Sponsor Owner

LARRYH F1 Veteran
Owner Rossa Subscribed

ENZOSON Formula Junior
Silver Subscribed

ENZOSON Formula Junior
Silver Subscribed